Hello!
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Hello all,
I'm a 17 year old student living in the Netherland and converted to Sunni Islam 9 months ago (one of my grandmum reconverted to Sunni-Islam and I always felt that there was something true within it). Still I saw that there were lots of problems in the (secterian) Islam so I kept looking for answers on the skeptics. The fun fact is that almost all the answers I found (about morals but also about evolution) were on Qurani-Islam sites. (Masjid Tucson and 19.org for example). After some months I noticed their view on Hadiths P and I felt like I had arrived.
My mom accepts that Muhammed is a prophet but isnt practicing (yet). My Christian grandmum (kinda ex-Islamophobe) now knows my sides and wants to learn about Muhammed as well. Too bad that she has dementia and forgets everything (she will probably remain a Christian) and I am schooling my Sunni grandmum about Quranism currently.
Personally I believe that hellfire is temporary (link) and since the Quran speaks about a Big Crunch including new earths there might be a chance that the disbelievers (everyone except Quranists) will get in Jannah after some 'resits'.
Thats also the only way how 262 and 569 won't contradict with 544 (And whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed - then it is those who are the disbelievers.) for example.
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Hell not necessarily permanent, but it will surely be long-lasting for certain people.
Welcome to the forum.
Be well
Amenuel -
I think hell better understand like a prison, and timing depend on the sins what a person did..
not necessary to burn their skins , its a situation which is unhappy for soul like imagine if somebody is in prison and do work for free he really not feel happy ,,
something like that but its sure God will not do any unjustice to anybody it depends on the deeds..
but I m still feel sympathy for the people like atheist who are good in their own and never do any crime apart from rejecting God , how they will be punished . or atheist stage according to me is something they know the truth but just being stubborn not to accept like pharaoh... but pharaoh was cruel as well used to kill people and let people make prostrate to him.. and even he accept it in the end while dying .. a common atheist of today and pharoh of moses got difference any how,,
anybody have any views regarding this?
welcome to the family brother..
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Rejecting God is not a crime, it is just a lack of realization of self. Many who claim to acknowledge God actually reject God's standards which is the important matter. A strong and healthy mind also shows strong spiritual development, they might not just yet have awakened. To acknowledge God is to acknowledge who to be.
Be well
Amenuel -
Salamu Alaykum and Ramadan Kareem Noah!
Great to see such a young face here! May God bless you in your studies.
Listen to your heart, follow your conscience, and you will not be lead astray, insha'Allah.
Salaam from California,
Clash.
P.S. I was just telling a friend yesterday the same idea brother! "Al-hutamah" a.k.a. "The Crusher" could definitely be referring to what astrophysicists call the Big Crunch, basically everything will be destroyed except by the will of Allah as far as I understand. It also says that the fire "mounts directly at the hearts" so maybe there is also something to what imrankhawaja said about it "being a situation unhappy for the soul". Allahu 'Alam, God knows best.
As a warning to myself and others
Al Hutama - The Crusher
1041 Woe to every scorner and mocker
1042 Who collects wealth and counts it.
1043 He thinks that his wealth will make him immortal.
1044 No! He will surely be thrown into the Crusher.
1045 And what can make you know what is the Crusher?
1046 It is the fire of Allah , fueled,
1047 Which mounts directed at the hearts.
1048 Indeed, Hellfire will be closed down upon them
1049 In extended columns. -
Salaam/Peace be upon you, Noah,
sun welcome sun
AL-LAH is The Best Forgiver and The Most Merciful.
HE accepts our sincere Repentance
in this Most Generous & Most Benevolent Manner here (=25/69-70-71).But the Repentance which is caused --(not by the Love of GOD but)-- only due to extreme fear or panic, and actually not sincere,
are not accepted by our LORD, as long as HE knows it is a lie therein. (=10/90-91 & 6/27-28)So I believe that Hell may be eternal and constant only for such liars,
as long as they insist on deliberately lying. (=10/90-91 & 6/27-28) (=20/74)So, may AL-LAH protect all of us from such deliberate and stubborn lies and deceptions (=10/90-91 & 6/27-28),
and embrace each and every one of us
with HIS Immense Forgiveness and Mercy here and forever. (=25/69-70-71)Welcome again.
Remain in peace/salaam.
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Hello all,
I'm a 17 year old student living in the Netherland and converted to Sunni Islam 9 months ago (one of my grandmum reconverted to Sunni-Islam and I always felt that there was something true within it). Still I saw that there were lots of problems in the (secterian) Islam so I kept looking for answers on the skeptics. The fun fact is that almost all the answers I found (about morals but also about evolution) were on Qurani-Islam sites. (Masjid Tucson and 19.org for example). After some months I noticed their view on Hadiths P and I felt like I had arrived.
My mom accepts that Muhammed is a prophet but isnt practicing (yet). My Christian grandmum (kinda ex-Islamophobe) now knows my sides and wants to learn about Muhammed as well. Too bad that she has dementia and forgets everything (she will probably remain a Christian) and I am schooling my Sunni grandmum about Quranism currently.
Personally I believe that hellfire is temporary (link) and since the Quran speaks about a Big Crunch including new earths there might be a chance that the disbelievers (everyone except Quranists) will get in Jannah after some 'resits'.
Thats also the only way how 262 and 569 won't contradict with 544 (And whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed - then it is those who are the disbelievers.) for example.
Moge de Vrede met jou zijn.
Just be aware that the Quran teached us that the Gospel is a Guidance and Light also.
Anyways, i advice you to stay away from the sectarian people and especially from their "mosques".
Heb je facebook? Ik kom uit Leiden.
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Rejecting God is not a crime, it is just a lack of realization of self. Many who claim to acknowledge God actually reject God's standards which is the important matter. A strong and healthy mind also shows strong spiritual development, they might not just yet have awakened. To acknowledge God is to acknowledge who to be.
Be well
Amenuel"Rejecting God is not a crime"..
328 Let not the believers take the rejecters as allies instead of the believers. And whoever does so will have nothing with God; for you are to be cautious of them as they deserve. And God warns you of Himself, and to God is the destiny.
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That is the problem with sectarian interpretations of Quran, Adam. They say what Quran does not say.
And kafar does not mean rejecter or disbeliever but deluded ones. People who are blinded from seeing straight. They have a COVERED MIND like is the original meaning of Kaf-Fe-Ra.
Be well
Amenuel -
That is the problem with sectarian interpretations of Quran, Adam. They say what Quran does not say.
And kafar does not mean rejecter or disbeliever but deluded ones. People who are blinded from seeing straight. They have a COVERED MIND like is the original meaning of Kaf-Fe-Ra.
Be well
AmenuelTotally agree MoF. Kafara does mean to cover/hide.
God bless you. -
Peace Novice.
Again "Ka-Fa-Ra" can mean many things depending on the context/sentence. You can argue that sometimes it may mean "Disbeliever",like
26Otherwise this would not be justiied
27We have these discussions about Qoran so many times . Multi meanings words exist for a reason in Qoran.
For example
Salat has more than one meaning in Qoran.
Zakat has more than one meaning in Qoran.
Sujud has more than one meaning in Qoran.
Kuffar has more than one meaning in Qoran.
...etc, It all depends on the sentence/verbs/context... Even grammar goes out of the window in Qoran sometimesAnyway, I suppose GOD has a valid reason for this.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Salaam good logic
Thank you for your post. In my humble opinion everyone has a right to present their understanding. So if your understanding appeals me I can adopt it and may be vice versa.
After many years of learning my understanding at present is that Arabic words are based on roots. The root meanings reflect in any derived word of a root. As far as Arabic grammar is concerned it has been developed by humans over time. All man made grammar is helpful but is not above Quran.
ka-Fa-Ra root means to cover/hide. It should reflect in all derivatives of this root.
So in 26-7 my humble understanding is that those who cover/hide the truth they are not willing to take any warnings because they are not using their God gifted faculties intentionally.
Of course it is my understanding and I am open to accept a better understanding. And I have no intention to force my understanding upon anyone.I am just sharing my views.
God bless you.
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So in 26-7 my humble understanding is that those who cover/hide the truth they are not willing to take any warnings because they are not using their God gifted faculties intentionally.
Of course it is my understanding and I am open to accept a better understanding. And I have no intention to force my understanding upon anyone.I am just sharing my views.
bravo
Those who cover / hide the truth (KFR) actually knows the truth yet they're covering / hiding it..
A good and simple example of KFR will be Abraham's dad...
He was an idol maker, he created idols and also the stories / myths / gods behinds it.
With hopes that he can sell the idols (Which later shall be used like a kind of amulets to protect the bearer against certain things, depending on the God which the idol represent)Does Abraham's dad knows that all of this are crap?? Yes he does... he's the author of it..
Yet he tried very hard to hide / cover it... even when his own son decided to break the family's tradition and tell the truth about all of these craps..Basically he's a deceiver.. and do anything to cover up his lies... even when it involves murdering and torturing people.. including his own son...
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That is the problem with sectarian interpretations of Quran, Adam. They say what Quran does not say.
And kafar does not mean rejecter or disbeliever but deluded ones. People who are blinded from seeing straight. They have a COVERED MIND like is the original meaning of Kaf-Fe-Ra.
Be well
AmenuelLet's not say things like "rejecting is not a crime", that's all what i had to say.
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Peace Novice.
Thank you or your reply as well.
You say, quote
After many years of learning my understanding at present is that Arabic words are based on roots. The root meanings reflect in any derived word of a root. As far as Arabic grammar is concerned it has been developed by humans over time. All man made grammar is helpful but is not above Quran.And who gave the "roots" their meanings?
Should man made root meanings not follow the same logic as the grammar?
For example are "K-F-R" root and "J-I-N" root similar?
Sometimes just because we translate according to the context with a different word it does not mean we abandoned the root meaning. I already said one can argue that a "disbeliever" and "one who covers the truth" are the same thing?Also, of course you are entitled to your understanding brother. I happen to agree with some of it.
And when I do not agree, we disagree amicably.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Salaam good logic
And who gave the "roots" their meanings?
Brother my understanding is that God communicated in a language that was in use. The roots had certain meanings when Quran was revealed. So people of the time were able to understand the message. Some people have done great job in putting those roots together. For me meanings of these root words are important to understand the message.
Should man made root meanings not follow the same logic as the grammar?
I would say root meanings, in use at the time of revelation, made people understand the message. These man made root meanings were the language of the day and that was how those people understood the message. Otherwise a dictionary of terms used, should have been revealed with the message. Message has no purpose if it is not understandable by those who receive it.
For example are "K-F-R" root and "J-I-N" root similar?
I think you meant root J-N-N. I have not studied it but I am sure there would be some difference between both.
Sometimes just because we translate according to the context with a different word it does not mean we abandoned the root meaning. I already said one can argue that a "disbeliever" and "one who covers the truth" are the same thing?
Brother as I already said all derived meanings from a root should reflect the root meanings. I understand Kafir as one who covers the truth. But a disbeliever conveys different meanings to me.
Also, of course you are entitled to your understanding brother. I happen to agree with some of it.
And when I do not agree, we disagree amicably.
Thank you brother for your good mannerism. Of course when we do not agree, we disagree amicably.
God bless you.