What is the true Victory?
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Did I ask you to follow me?
If you think you already know enough Arabic, you likely know nothing and will never know anything. However, if you are sincere about learning it. Keep striving on and you would know the truth one day.
Regards,
Peace,
now you are distorting my words!!!i said this
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la ilaha ila hu
No object of worship EXCEPT HIMi know enough arabic to know this, and more
"anyway, i do not desire to argue with you, i simply wished to remind you, prehaps the reminder would benefit.
I choose to place my trust in God, and he is sufficient to gaurd his revelation.. one point of note.."whether arabic or non arabic it is, for those who believe, a guidance and a mercy"
Language is irrilevent. God guides whomever he wills, and leaves to stray whomever he wills
May God guide us all. Peace
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@ bkanwar , if you revised the chapter 112 how you will revise it.. I just want to know the idealogy behind the understanding you have..
peace
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@ bkanwar , if you revised the chapter 112 how you will revise it.. I just want to know the idealogy behind the understanding you have..
peace
Imran, hope you realize there is a difference between the meanings of words ideology and methodology? Did you mean my methodology? I have no ideology of my own. I am just a student of the text of Quran.
Regards,
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Imran, hope you realize there is a difference between the meanings of words ideology and methodology? Did you mean my methodology? I have no ideology of my own. I am just a student of the text of Quran.
Regards,
actually I wanted to know is there is something wrong with other translations or their meanings are different from what you learn from text.. what I understand you just interpreting in hard way .. or using some substitute words sometimes it works sometime it cause confusion may be I still did not get .. just let me know what is it then it will be easy for me to understand ..
peace
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Peace,
brother i do appologize, as my conduct yesterday, was less than what God expects of us as believers. and i do hope my lord will forgive me.i was quite confronting and rude, and the way i went about it was not ok.
what i was trying to say is that, I find it quite hard to follow your translation. Prehaps i am missing context, and you could, god willing, explain somewhat the context of some concepts i dont understand?
Peace
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If you do really consider me your brother. Then there is no need for apology, brothers don't apologizes. They love each other.
I by no means claim to know all Quran. I am trying to understand. I know with reasonable certainty that Allah means "one who doesn't engage in worship", based upon understanding the spellings. Which is the only method to understand any text.
This understanding not only nullifies entire religion Islam, but also all other religions of the world.
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If you do really consider me your brother. Then there is no need for apology, brothers don't apologizes. They love each other.
I by no means claim to know all Quran. I am trying to understand. I know with reasonable certainty that Allah means "one who doesn't engage in worship", based upon understanding the spellings. Which is the only method to understand any text.
This understanding not only nullifies entire religion Islam, but also all other religions of the world.
Peace, do you have supporting evidence for this view, or could point me in the direction of it? also i am curious how it nullifies the entire religions of the world? as It seems logical that God does not worship, as worship itself is something which only his creation does.. in my understanding. Unless you are proposing that al-llah is an entirely different concept than 'God', i am also curious how you fit this view in with the quran, and its context of God, with all his descriptions and attributes, and the concept of 'la ilaha ila allah'
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Please read the following. Once you have done this, we can discuss further if you have questions.
I am making few corrections in this write up based upon my discussion with an inquisitive soul. He kept asking me repeated questions. This led me to re-look my write up again. Now with increased understanding of the language. I have spotted few issues that I overlooked previously.
Main point of correction is word ?illah? or in Arabic script . This component of Allah can?t be as if it was the case this would add one more ?Alif? to spelling and hence making the linguistic analysis flawed. The word here is a verb from same three letter root. This means ?He worshiped or adored?.
Now let us substitute this word and its meanings in rest of the write up.
We are lead through, with a careful linguistic analysis, to a conclusion that the word from Al-Qu'ran is not the proper noun (name) of our Rabb. It actually stands for allathe = he who, La = not and finally, . This would mean ?He who doesn?t do Alah?.
If one were to incorporate the real meanings of the word ?alah? into the translation; this word which actually is a sentence would mean ?He who doesn?t at all worship or adore?.
This sounds so radically different. Who am I to say this? What are my credentials?
Why should we trust this non-sense?
These are all defensive of held belief, so valid and legitimate questions.
Let us instead of worrying about the credentials of the informer of this information; just explore the language of the Qur'an that is presented from the Qur'an itself.
First of all let us analyze what traditionalists interpret this word to be?
And why they are wrong?
Traditionally, the word is thought to be a combination of a definite article Al = in English ?The? and illah , meaning ?God? but in reality ?a deity for adoration and worship?.
Although, in actuality this "Al" here is a contraction of the word and legitimately could be written as "Al" . Can we trust this assertion despite clear references from the Lexicon of Lane 1 and Grammar of William Wright 2.
Let us turn to Qur'an itself for more evidence. In Arabic script as well in the Qur'an, where a preposition ?Lee? is added in to a word beginning with a definite article ?Al? . Alif is dropped and so Lam of the definite article ?Al? joins with ?Lam? of preposition. Let us illustrate this point with some word examples from Qur'an itself.
- 21 Alif of ?Al? gone, lam is present and preposition ?Lee? added.
2.. 47 and 432, is the word same concept.
However, for the word when the same preposition is added. We find that the ?Lam? of the supposed definite article ?Al? also disappears. However, following the examples above it should have been written as (in reality one cannot type this so called word using an Arabic type writer).
Example, 12 and 115 more places 222, 298 and on and on, in total 116 occurrences.
Whereas, allathi being a different word its whole contraction disappears. This also proves that this word by no means is a proper name as there is no definite article "Al". As if there would have been an "Al", it should look like this in script and not
Furthermore, although both Lane and Wright cite the contraction of as . Can we find an example in the current translation of Quran for such a contraction? Of course, we can, not one time, but multiple times.677
Yousuf Ali When he saw the moon rising in splendor, he said "This is my Lord." But when the moon set, He said "unless my Lord guides me, I shall surely be among those who go astray."
799
Yousuf Ali Did they then feel secure against the plan of Allah?- but no one can feel secure from the Plan of Allah, except those (doomed) to ruin!
Other examples are at 62 different places, 526, 25, 567. Any place word is used, it is at most places translated in meaning of "allathi".
Let us, continue to analyses this word further. In the middle there is "alif" like mark (highlighted in red) with a Shadda mark and another alif above . In newer, print version the "alif" above Shadda is taken a fatha shape instead of 'alif" like in this example as well. The ?alif? above Shadda, is called a ?dagger alif? and is written over many other words instead being included in these words in the text of Quran. Since here it is written over Shadda, implying there are two ?alifs?.
Shadda has several uses in script. We will only discuss the relevant ones here. One use is to indicate the doubling of a consonant. It is also used to indicate such a doubling only to facilitate pronunciation in the ?Sun letters of the Arabic alphabets?. This would be an apparently plausible defensive case for the traditionalist.
Let us analysis why it is wrong? If it were to be correctly understood, then there would be no reason to keep this Shadda in place once the ?Al?, if it were really ?Al? of definite article. As in the phrase is gone , as in the example above of . However, we find in the Qur'an that this is not the case. Hence, this Shadda is not due to ?Al? of a definite article coming before the word to make it a proper noun, but contraction of allathi. Although, even if it were to be the case, as illah has already ?alif? at the start which is not considered a ?Sun letter?. Hence no Shadda would be have been added as cited above.
Let us, further show in Arabic script, how this concept could be explained? First, all three words are written separately, then allathi written as contracted and finally two sequential, Alifs 4+5 can be combined and written as one. However, these combined alifs are written above Shadda. This make two remaining ?Lams? 3+6 sequential and hence could be combined and are written as one below Shadda, to make apparently one looking word Allah.
= Let us do a consonant count, of words on left side of equation see if it matches with word on right side of equation.
Right side, Alif 1 + Lam 2 + Lam 3 + Alif 4 + Alif 5 + Lam 6 + Ha 7. There are total of 7 consonants on right side.
Left side, Alif 1 + Lam 2 + (in the middle due to Shadda there should be 4 consonants, two below two ?dager Alifs above it). If one were to pay attention to red consonants in right side of equation. Two lams 3 +6 are below Shadda and two Alifs 4+5 are written above Shadda), 7 Ha is written at the end combined with two ?Lam? combined together in the middle and below Shadda, to formThis clearly, further shows that the persistence of this Shadda is due, not to the Shadda of ?Al?; but in reality it indicates a real doubling of the consonants.
This means inescapably, that one was to follow the order of pronunciation of, this word. It actually is a sequence of words, a phrase, not just a word. Allathe (written as a contraction in script as "Al", La and alah. This would further imply that the middle Shadda is suggesting ?two lams? and two alifs?.
Hence, if translated word for word, this word or more accurately sentence would mean ?He who doesn?t at all worship or adore?.
- Lexicon of Arabic Language; Edward W Lane; 1968, Vol. 1, page 74.
- A Grammar of the Arabic Language; William Wright. Revised 3RD Edition, Dover Edition 2005 Vol. 1 page 269 D.
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Imran, the biggest difference.
In current translation Allah= One and only deity for worship.
The language based spelling analysis of Allah = One who doesn't engage in worship.
Regards,
ok thanx for clarifying it for me...
that's fine but what I see here . its obvious that God don't need to involve in any type of worship. to God everything is serving and worshiping.. God is free of any need.. that's correct.. I m agree
but again the sectarian interpretation got same meanings the one and only diety for worship.. its also correct ..
with respect to ur understanding . I did not see any difference in it at all... regarding meanings ..and there are also other specification that associate with the highness of God and performing different fucntions .nothing is contradicting nothing .. so why make such confusion in all of this...
when the destination is same .. its just like you are tking a long route of travelling a destination while there is a short route and easy route is already there..
peace god bless you
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Peace bkanwar2,
I see your point now. and i agree that allah could well be defined as 'he who - (does) not - worship'
I would note on a few things..
you said
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Main point of correction is word ?illah? or in Arabic script . This component of Allah can?t be as if it was the case this would add one more ?Alif? to spelling and hence making the linguistic analysis flawed. The word here is a verb from same three letter root. This means ?He worshiped or adored?.
"i presume you are aware that alif, and hamza are one of the most contended letters in the quran, as in the earliest transcripts we have (to my knowledge) there are alifs missing, and alifs as hamzas or visa-versa, and they also had no vowel markings, theese were all standardized later on. have you looked into theese early transcripts, what is avaliable of them?
i am not sure whether this would change anything..
however, either way, i believe that in the context of the quran, god is,The (one) deity, and also He who (does) not worship, because everyone worships him, he has nothing supierior to him, being al-`Ala
excuse my lack of arabic text, and transliteration, i have not yet set it up on this computer.I also dont realy see how this would need a redefinition of the entire quran, simply replace A with B. however obviously i am aware that this can intefere with context, my main initial issue, was not your definition of the meaning of allah, provided obviously it is in compliance with al-furqaan, the criterion, of the quran.
My main initial issue, was that you said
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there is no deity for worship and we shouldn't be worshiping at all.
"and you also said something along the lines of, and i am quoting from memory, because i cant find the original statement, so i may well be incorrect..
'this would invalidate the whole religion of islam, and all the religions of the world'
now, while i accept your definition of the word allah, prehaps i am misunderstanding something, but now do you make the connection between allah being 'He who does not worship' and your previous statement, which i believe is completely erraneous, in the context of the quran, unless some knowledge has come to you, which has not come to me, what standard are you using to correct your percieved distortings of the arabic language, which i believe, there are to some extent.
i.e how to you overcome this problem;
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Timotheus, which god you are talking about. The one who might have created the text of Quran, or the one who translated its text some 250 years after its supposed advent?
"because, and i may be mistaken, but if you have no solid basis of reference for correcting the distortions in the arabic language, then, you are in my view, just translating the the translated text again, which can only possibly lead to even more distortion..
also how do you percieve this issue (prehaps i am mistaken) to invalidate Islam, or any other religion.. as the torah was not written in arabic, so it cannot be subject to the distortion of the arabic language, being non-cursive it does not have issues such as that, but may well have other distortions or issues with it. yet the torah clearly states that there is one God, who we should obey and worship, and no other.
As the quran says 'produce your proof if you are truthfull'
i also agree with imrankhawaja's previous post, and think that realy we should all be focusing on what is most important, which is us being believers, and obeying god, as the quran says, because in my understanding your definition of allah
Peace
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Based upon improved syntactical and other aspect of language. I have edited this Sura as below.
Surah 110 1
When suddenly happens the victory and the acquaintance for concept of one who doesn?t engage in worship.
Surah 110 2
As you have seen the state of commotion. They shall enter in multitudes into the customs and habits of one who doesn?t engage in worship.
Surah 110 3
Then celebrate freedom from every impurity, of your mind controlling concept, with praise and seeking protection from it. Indeed, he is one often expressing sincere regrets.
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If you do really consider me your brother. Then there is no need for apology, brothers don't apologizes. They love each other.
I by no means claim to know all Quran. I am trying to understand. I know with reasonable certainty that Allah means "one who doesn't engage in worship", based upon understanding the spellings. Which is the only method to understand any text.
This understanding not only nullifies entire religion Islam, but also all other religions of the world.
You must be an only child