alcohol

imrankhawaja

its took five years to decide something .. regarding alcohol..

five years ago I read the article at free minds about alcohol although its not a category of haram/forbidden. but its a catagory of sin or something not encouraged by God.

examples are lie, dishonesty, hypocrisy(wordly matters) , backbiting. gambling, making fun of somebody, rasicm, and lot of more immortalities..

the word ajtanab(AVOID) of Arabic is used other places of quran providing same sense of something which is not encouraging by God .so at our our first priority we should avoid it...

but most of the times we cannot avoid of speaking lie, doing cheating inexams or work, backbiting , rasicm, same go with alcohol

problem is just sunni consider it in a big catagory of sin whereas quran take it as light category or small sin.

however truthful submittor according to my thinking would not like to lie , cheat , backbite or consume alcohol ,

but if it happen somehow its not a big issue how sectarian deals it... we should feel same after speaking lie, cheat , dishonesty what we feel after consumption of alcohol..

so I would not suggest the beleivers to have it as a fun..

peace
God bless you

Timotheus

"but most of the times we cannot avoid of speaking lie, doing cheating inexams or work, backbiting , rasicm, same go with alcohol

problem is just sunni consider it in a big catagory of sin whereas quran take it as light category or small sin."

Peace,

I think this is both true and untrue to some extent,
The point is to avoid satan!
so we must consciously make an effort to keep away from satan. and Not to follow his footsteps

590 O you who believe, alcohol, and gambling, and altars, and arrows of chance are tainted - by the work of the devil. You shall avoid him so that you may be successful.

2219 They ask you about alcohol and gambling. Say "In them is great harm, and a benefit for the people; but their harm is greater than their benefit....

see alcahol is not prohibited, as such, in my understanding, but God is saying that it harms us more than helps us. well the word used, in my understanding is intoxicants. i.e all intoxicants. God is right there are intoxicants that give us benefits, such as painkillers like morphine or codine. theese are intoxicants, they are harmfull, but there is a benefit in that people who are in extreme or constant pain because of trauma or a medical condition can get relief. Alcahol too, in fact, it was used before modern painkillers and anesthetics. but now we have better and less harmfull ones. also sometimes (quite often, especialy in excess) alcahol and other drugs/intoxicants can lead us to sin. which IS forbidden. i myself have been in alot of pain ( i was recently involved in a incident where the car i was travelling in rolled down a bank, and have a bit of neck and shoulder troubles afterwards), and i have at times turned to intoxicants to help relieve the pain, but overall it is still harmfull.

The thing is God has prohibitted ALL SIN.

733 Say "My Lord has made unlawful immorality; what is public of it and private; and sin, and aggression without cause, and that you set up partners with God that which He has never authorized, and that you say about God what you do not know."

Here we see God has actualy forbidden Sin!! i.e every sin!!!

well, in that case we are all transgressors. This is something i know, and i hate that part of myself, yet human beings sin.. every day usualy. with or without realising it. But God is The Forgiving, The Mercifull, The Compassionate, who forgives again and again. and thank God for that!! otherwise none of us would have any hope.

3545 And if God were to punish the people for what they have earned, He would not leave a single creature standing. But He delays them to an appointed term. So, when their time comes, then God is Seer of His servants.

4225 And He is the One who accepts the repentance from His servants, and He forgives the sins. He is fully aware of what you do.

3953 Say "O My servants who transgressed against themselves, do not despair of the mercy of God. For God forgives all sins. He is the Forgiver, the Merciful."

3954 And repent to your Lord, and submit to Him, before the retribution comes to you. Then you cannot be helped.

I regards to cheating in exams, you definately can avoid that, and i believe you should. I have been tempted many times to cheat 'the system' some how, and i may have slipped up, and i think i lied to, or was considering to lie to a government employee about my financial circumstances to get support, But i realised this was a transgression, asked God for forgiveness and i am commited to not lie anymore. even if it means i must persevere in a not ideal situation, if i recall correctly God actualy blessed me by not putting me in the situation i thought i would be in, where i was pressured to lie, so i never needed to in the first place..

I realy am concerned if you are cheating, not because i want to critisize you, i am a transgressor myself, and i am constantly amazed at the mercy of God, that he still gives me chances to amend my ways, and helps me. but i think this is a serious sin, and i am concerned for you as a fellow human being subject to gods judgement, as God says the submitters are the ones who are truthfull, uphold justice and truth, and fuffill there pledges. i cant find the verse right now..

I believe that whatever you do in this life, as long as you do your best to abide by Gods laws, and repent when you sin, God is forgiving and mercifull, but his criterion is the Quran, and he will surely judge us by it on the day of judement.

In regards to the sectarians, well i mean if they are commiting idol worship (i.e following the "sunnah" or "hadiths" as religious law) well all there works are nullified regardless or there life of alcahol prohibition or not. and we must remember..

The ONLY UNFORGIVABLE SIN, if we do not repent and ammend, is idol worship. For what is less than that God forgives whoever he wills.

in saying that, let us not get comfortable with our sins, or compare ourselves to others and say 'well at least were not like them' or 'at least we dont worship idols' because, God knows and we do not know, some people on the day of judgement will say 'By God, we were never idol worshippers!' But God calls them liars. I believe following satan, or anyone else, in contrary to God, is a form of idol worship.

Just a reminder, as much as for you, and anyone else, as myself, as God knows we are all in need of his Mercy and Forgiveness.

Peace, Mercy, Blessings and the Forgiveness of our awesome, and all powerfull lord, be with you all.
alhamdullilahi rabbil-Alameen. All Praise is to God, Lord of the Universe

reel

After 3 years of pondering upon Quranic verses what I have realized is that God does not want us to do what makes us animals.

Animals have a tendency to destroy. This is what God wants us not to do.

Man_of_Faith

Congratulations, reel, to your realization. Applause.

imrankhawaja

@ timothous brother

actually I had 50/50 views about the consumption of alcohol orally before giving that thing a full day of research..

when I read the verse 2219 They ask you about alcohol and gambling. Say "In them is great harm, and a benefit for the people; but their harm is greater than their benefit

infact the word use here is "ith'mun" and on other places this word is also translated as sin . in Arabic its means sin not benefit. for benefit quran use other words.. the root of word use here is nothing more than sin ..

but again if we look as a grammer point of view the opposite of harm is benefit . but rest of the other places when we link uo its clear there is no apparent benefit in idol worship I mean wordly benefit, what we consider

as a oral use we cannot take it beneficial, yeh but for other uses like in perfume mouth wash its ok to take benefit from alcohol that's wahts my understanding in all this..

I m feeling bit bad becoz two three people ask me is it allowed to consume alcohol according to quran and I said yes you can consume it , now I will revise my thinking regarding this... yesterday when i take decision i m very much relaxed after that...

peace God bless you.

and about pain killers and other stuff i also consume it , recommended by doctors. its nothing harm in it.

imrankhawaja

After 3 years of pondering upon Quranic verses what I have realized is that God does not want us to do what makes us animals.

Animals have a tendency to destroy. This is what God wants us not to do.

hmm exactly reel,,

God bless you

reel

Congratulations, reel, to your realization. Applause.

hmm exactly reel,,

God bless you

Thank you and the realization didn't come from changing the verses, but the idea of changing into a successor from blood shedder.

God bless you two )

Timotheus

@ timothous brother

actually I had 50/50 views about the consumption of alcohol orally before giving that thing a full day of research..

when I read the verse 2219 They ask you about alcohol and gambling. Say "In them is great harm, and a benefit for the people; but their harm is greater than their benefit

infact the word use here is "ith'mun" and on other places this word is also translated as sin . in Arabic its means sin not benefit. for benefit quran use other words.. the root of word use here is nothing more than sin ..

but again if we look as a grammer point of view the opposite of harm is benefit . but rest of the other places when we link uo its clear there is no apparent benefit in idol worship I mean wordly benefit, what we consider

as a oral use we cannot take it beneficial, yeh but for other uses like in perfume mouth wash its ok to take benefit from alcohol that's wahts my understanding in all this..

I m feeling bit bad becoz two three people ask me is it allowed to consume alcohol according to quran and I said yes you can consume it , now I will revise my thinking regarding this... yesterday when i take decision i m very much relaxed after that...

peace God bless you.Portage is the official package management and distribution system for Gentoo. It essentially functions as the heart of Gentoo-based operating systems. Portage includes many commands for repository and package management, the primary of which is the emerge command.

and about pain killers and other stuff i also consume it , recommended by doctors. its nothing harm in it.

peace,

hmm you raised an interesting point there.. i will have to look further into that myself.

in regards to telling people what the quran says, i would just simply encourage them to do their own research, and to read it for themselves, dont take any human beings word for it, but verify for yourself, because sadly people often think 'oh he said the quran says this and that' and they start following that instead of the quran.. a strange, but understandable, trait of human beings it seems.

Peace

Layth

Salam,

Alcohol is permissible if regulated and controlled.

It is not for us to forbid what God has made permissible.

imrankhawaja

Salam,

Alcohol is permissible if regulated and controlled.

It is not for us to forbid what God has made permissible.

the wording definition of my understanding is here and quran use the word "fajtinabo" for alcohol, same word use for other things what we should ajtinab. like lie, hypocrisy, cheating,

2230 Thus, and whoever honors the restrictions of God, then it is better for him with His Lord. And the livestock has been made lawful for you; except what is being recited to you; so "avoid" the taint of idols and "avoid" saying false statements.

exact word used here for false statement.. although false statement is not haram but its not allowed to say it...

peace

Man_of_Faith

Even if alcohol was free to use it is unwise to consume the substance. I quited about 8 years ago and more due to reflection on my part than any religious law. I highly doubt it would have any health benefits that any other substance does not do the same. Health problems are usually due to bad nutrition and it could be that some features of alcohol balances something else which is bad. Alcohol does make the blood thinner and it is detrimental when one is an athlete even in small amounts.

Anyone arguing for it is not contemplating the whole picture in my opinion. Even heavier drugs can have "positive effects" while not so many negative effects that are experienced right away. When you drink alcohol you are actually drinking a poison which could be used as a disinfectant and a thinner and then you let that go down your throat. The narcotic affection makes you defend it.

Be well
Amenuel

The_Guided_One

You go to a bar drink a few drinks with your friends and a lady comes and sits on your lap ( maybe you do haram with her and say to yourself it is only once, even if you have a wife and children at home waiting for you )
You go the bar with friends and you do not drink a lady comes and sits on your lap, you say i am married and please go away before someone sees me with you ( you think about Allah and your wife and children )

That is why alcohol is the work of satan, the same with gambling, once you win and the second time too and than you lose everything

Maybe in an other sitation ithis will not happen, but other things can happen, it is something Muslims should avoid

imrankhawaja

You go to a bar drink a few drinks with your friends and a lady comes and sits on your lap ( maybe you do haram with her and say to yourself it is only once, even if you have a wife and children at home waiting for you )
You go the bar with friends and you do not drink a lady comes and sits on your lap, you say i am married and please go away before someone sees me with you ( you think about Allah and your wife and children )

nice example , but wrong example.. i see lot of people in bar with or without alcohol doing opposite things what u claim..

but even if example is wrong ur decision is right we should avoid it..

Anoushirvan

Peace,

5.90.
5.90. Ya ayyuha allatheena amanoo innama alkhamru waalmaysiru waal-ansabu waal-azlamu rijsun min AAamali alshshaytani faijtaniboohu laAAallakum tuflihoona
5.90 . O ye who believe! alkhamru and almaysiru and al-ansabu and al-azlamu are only an rijs of Satan's work. Ijtaniboohu aside in order that ye may succeed .
5.90 (Erroneous translation) O ye who believe! Strong drink and games of chance and idols and divining arrows are only an infamy of Satan ' s handiwork . Leave it aside in order that ye may succeed .

Azlam does not mean divine arrow thrown to take decision, please ponder this verse

3.44.
3.44. Thalika min anba-i alghaybi nooheehi ilayka wama kunta ladayhim ith yulqoona aqlamahum ayyuhum yakfulu maryama wama kunta ladayhim ith yakhtasimoona
3.44 . This is of the tidings of things hidden . We reveal it unto thee . Thou wast not present with them when they threw their pens ( to know ) which of them should be the guardian of Mary , nor wast thou present with them when they quarrelled ( thereupon ) .

According to this http//www.baheth.info/all.jsp?term=%D8%B2%D9%84%D9%85
Azlam means something thin and meager, without consistence.

Ansab does not mean idols or altars. According to this http//www.baheth.info/all.jsp?term=%D9%86%D8%B5%D8%A8
it means something to establish the objectives of a flatter.

Maysar does not mean game of chance. According to this http//www.baheth.info/all.jsp?term=%D9%8A%D8%B3%D8%B1
it means something easy and light. By the way, the Lane Lexicon has a lenghty and complex explanation why it came to mean gambling.

Khamr does not mean alcohol. According to this http//www.baheth.info/all.jsp?term=%D8%AE%D9%85%D8%B1
it means something mixing secretly. It can mean wine, but with respect to overall meaning of this verse, it doesn't mean wine here.

Rijs means state of great confusion, resulting of alkhamru and almaysiru and al-ansabu and al-azlamu. It is this state that is referred to by Ijtaniboohu.

So meaning of verse 5.90 is avoid the state of great confusion resulting of poorly fermented reasonings, made with lightness, without consistence, whose only goals are to flatter vil instincts.

Please also ponder this verse
12.41.
12.41. Ya sahibayi alssijni amma ahadukuma fayasqee rabbahu khamran waamma al-akharu fayuslabu fata/kulu alttayru min ra/sihi qudiya al-amru allathee feehi tastaftiyani
12.41 . O my two fellow prisoners! As for one of you , he will pour out wine for his lord to drink ; and as for the other , he will be crucified so that the birds will eat from his head . Thus is the case judged concerning which ye did inquire

If wine is forbidden/haram, then why did Allah choose to save the winemaker and not the baker ?

That said, if wine is not forbidden in Qur'an, modern medicine tells us to drink it with moderation anyway.

imrankhawaja

foget about other words i really dnt have much time to debate on other irrelevant catagories which are not the part of topic..
on other words without verifying or studying it i can understand you are correct handshake

and about khamar i have different views than you apparently quran is claiming something else which is an authentic source of all things that need to filter and on all other places this word is giving the same meaning have a look into this...

(591) (1236) (1241) (4715) 2 219 as well and here it was apparent that people was bit confuse about consumpttion of alcohol so they was asking the questions from prophet.

and regarding 2 219 what you will say about sin i can understand the opposite of harm is not sin its benefit before you tell me this grammer thingie but again this word also used on other places as sin,, no where quran use this word as benefit, do you have anything to say regarding this as well...

peace
God bless you

imrankhawaja

If wine is forbidden/haram, then why did Allah choose to save the winemaker and not the baker ?

That said, if wine is not forbidden in Qur'an, modern medicine tells us to drink it with moderation anyway.

are you serious regarding asking question like this..?

there are plantey of wine makers , drug dealers , gamblers, casino owners who keep law and police in the pocket , forget about it,,

actually i did not understand ,, what you are on about by giving example like this ,you are tying to say serving wine is better than bakking yeah

or another thing come in my mind the people who serve wine are good people and god save will save them to show us something , hmm

or baking is a bad profession people who bake are bad .. ?

peace

and about modern science if they are telling me sugar is good for carbohydrate , does it mean i will give to the patient of daibeties,

on the other hand i know lot of people are alcohloic who are sufferring lot of problems due to use of alcholol clearly , some have lungs pproblems some have liver problem, some have mental problems,, dnt you forget the wording is perfectly correct more harms

Anoushirvan

Peace,

and about khamar i have different views than you apparently quran is claiming something else which is an authentic source of all things that need to filter and on all other places this word is giving the same meaning have a look into this...

We have a different understanding of Qur'an. Nothing wrong with that, unless like traditional Islam, you start forbiding alcohol to others, especially when they have a different understanding.

(591) (1236) (1241) (4715) 2 219 as well and here it was apparent that people was bit confuse about consumpttion of alcohol so they was asking the questions from prophet.

and regarding 2 219 what you will say about sin i can understand the opposite of harm is not sin its benefit before you tell me this grammer thingie but again this word also used on other places as sin,, no where quran use this word as benefit, do you have anything to say regarding this as well...

Nothing in context of verse 2.219 says it explicitely means wine or alcohol.
I read it the same way as 5.90 and 5.91.

I know it is a quranist rule to put the same meaning for all occurences of a word in Qur'an. It's generally Ok, but it is not an absolute rule, or it doesn't prevent figurative meaning and metaphores.

are you serious regarding asking question like this..?

there are plantey of wine makers , drug dealers , gamblers, casino owners who keep law and police in the pocket , forget about it,,

actually i did not understand ,, what you are on about by giving example like this ,you are tying to say serving wine is better than bakking yeah

or another thing come in my mind the people who serve wine are good people and god save will save them to show us something , hmm

or baking is a bad profession people who bake are bad .. ?

I am not the author of Qur'an. Please read surah 12 and ask Allah what the story means or why He chose that story.

The_Guided_One

avoid intoxication, that is the work of satan, is how i understand

imrankhawaja

Peace,

We have a different understanding of Qur'an. Nothing wrong with that, unless like traditional Islam, you start forbiding alcohol to others, especially when they have a different understanding.

read my opening post,,

Nothing in context of verse 2.219 says it explicitely means wine or alcohol.
I read it the same way as 5.90 and 5.91.

I know it is a quranist rule to put the same meaning for all occurences of a word in Qur'an. It's generally Ok, but it is not an absolute rule, or it doesn't prevent figurative meaning and metaphores.

rule number one Boss(lord) is always right?
rule number 2 if u have doubt about lord see rule number one..

so you try to say quran used a word blue in some places as green becoz green and yellow make blue.
quran use 2+2=4 in some places and 2+2=5 on some places , its mean you are contradicting the beauty of quran ...

I am not the author of Qur'an. Please read surah 12 and ask Allah what the story means or why He chose that story.

i think this story tells us that joseph had ability to interpret the vision or dreams of people, and it dosent matter whether the meanings of dream reffered to drinker, bar tender, bakker, king, or himself with eleven planets ...

in this story God is telling us to gaurd our private parts... and the other twist of story is the interpreations of vision...
and the perosn who use to serve drinks to king get his job back and he also saw a dream which he shared with jospeh and then jospeh tell him the meanings of vision, which was true.. and then king saw a dream which cause jospeh to show his abilty to king with the interpretation of visions rewarded to him by lord.. very clear cut story because quran is very easy to understand...

i think you try to say story in quran is for consuming alcohal... ! because joseph interpret a dream of kings drink server.. how do u know how many dreams he interpret in his whole life... but quran here is reffering the people who are involved in this story and this bar tender play an important role in story due to which jospeh was able to see the result of his own dream as well...

peace..

Zulf

avoid intoxication, that is the work of satan, is how i understand

Agreed.
Intoxication is bad in a number of different ways. I cannot find any thing it is good for in any real, progressive and permanent way.
It may feel good physically, but that is not the same as actually being good.

There should be no need for religious instructions to forbid alcohol consumption. Just pondering should be enough to realize this.
However, I also think that the religious prohibitions of alcohol in things or than for consumption is just stupid. Forbidding alcohol in e.g. perfumes is just retarded. Such ideas just show a complete lack of understanding why alcohol is bad. People forbidding it in perfumes probably only avoids drinking alcoholic beverages simply because "God says so" and not because they realize it is actually bad. Had God not "said so" they'd probably been drinking it.

Peace