were we with god previously?
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Peace all
I have often thought that prehaps before this life we were alive as our true selves (souls) in some regard.., as i know the quran talks about 2 lives and deaths, and bearing witness to god, and today i was checking over some verses, and i came across this, praise god, i am unsure however if i am misinterpretting it, as my knowledge of arabic is limited, if anyone more familiar with it, or has anything else to contribute, feel free.
7172
And when your Lord took from the children of Adam from their backs, their descendants and He made them bear witness against their own souls ?Am I not with your Lord?? They said ?Yes, we have witnessed.? in case you say on the Day of Resurrection ?indeed we were unaware of this?
as you can see if you read arabic, it says 'a-lastu bi-rabbikum' which i would interpret as 'am i not with/in your lord'
if this interpretation is correct, i see it as the soul talking to itself, not as traditional interpretations see it as God talking to the soul saying 'am i not your lord', because otherwise it doesent seem to make sense, but again, prehaps i am misreading the text due to my lack of undersanding. may god guide me.
peace.
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Peace. I have similar thought about it.
Peace, to me it feels true,
i would, in the future, insha'Allah, look into the verses like 'his throne had been upon the waters to test you' or something similar, as i recall this is past tense, but the quran can be dynamic with tense, as god transcends time and sometimes uses past tenses for future events like the day of recompense, seemingly to indicate the certainy of it.
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Peace Timotheus,
In 7172 the "bi" is most likely redundant as per one of the usages specified in Lane's Lexicon. As per Lane's Lexicon, it is sometimes redundant when it denotes corroboration or emphatic praise. Please see the following, at the top in the middle section
http//www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume1/00000180.pdf
Interestingly its basic meaning is to denote adhesion or mixture. Another reason for usage in 7172 could be to indicate that the infinite Creator is not separate from its creation but the creation is a tiny part of the infinite Creator, a physical manifestation of the infinite intelligent energy due to certain specific vibrations of strings of energy (sub quantum string theory), by the virtue of the Creator being infinite (2115). Maybe if "bi" was not used there, it would have indicated a rabb that is an entirely separate entity from the creation, which would contradict with 2115 and make 2115 a false statement.
Please see the following for basic meaning of adhesion and mixture (lower left in left section)
http//www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume1/00000178.pdf
In my opinion the redundant usage is more likely in the context.
7172 combined with 228 is quranic evidence of a past life (before the 1st death of 22. It is also quranic evidence of the veil of forgetfulness which is placed over the 3rd density physical body while in the physical existence (currently we don't remember this conversation). It is also evidence that we will remember that conversation again on the last day after death, which indicates that the spirit body never forgets and remembers everything including memories and lessons learned from all past lives. This is in line with the hard scientific evidence resulting from Dr. Michael Newton's research (signs within ourselves and in the horizons - 4153). Please see the following post for details
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9608434.msg391195#msg391195
Peace
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Peace Timotheus,
As far as "yawm al-jum3ati" is concerned, please see the following posts for detailed research about this in past on this forum
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=12309.msg96387#msg96387
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=14793.msg151827#msg151827
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9607226.msg363641#msg363641
Peace
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We are always with God.
Only Pagan thinks that God is (or are) located "High Above" in "Heaven" above the cloud.. thus we currently are NOT with God.
We are deluded from perceiving our true nature directly, but with practice one can yet sense a subtle presence.
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he is alwasy near to us, and we are actually a connection from our rab, our history start with God and end with God ,,,
to him we belong and to him we will return...
the bodily life is a punishment or test its a different matter... i dnt know whether getting this state of life is due to the challange or there was other reasons behind all this... is it all started due to the jealousy of energy beings.. what was the state of adam before eating something from tree... was he got no burden of body to take care of it,, including food cloth sex... and these things become our test.. for a certain time... lot of questions but quran talks in hints.. ? and its a reason now i understand ,, its better to seek God through intelligence same when somebody solve a puzzle and he achieve a picture when finish puzzle same is going oon with us but for sure we will be rewarded by awsome rewards that will make our real self/character/spirit very happy
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Peace,
God encompassess all things, he is obviously not 'somewhere else' and not here, in my understanding, God being al-`Ala or literaly 'the above/overtop' does not mean he is literaly above us, i think it is obviously a metaphorical sense of him being 'the one who is over everything'
In terms of the definition of preposition in this verse, i read through the very long winded definitions of it in lanes lexicon, and it is possible that it is not literaly 'with'. I dont know, but i would like to look further into things like this, and more, in the quran, to see how they are used in there, because while lanes lexicon may be a reputed work, it is after all, pretty much based on the authority of hadiths. I think, in general, we should do our best to seek the truth straight from God, using the context and usage of the quran, and the base/root meaning of words.
Not soley this, but much of my thinking recently has lead me to a point where, I think that because most of the interpretations of the quran are derived from books such lanes etc, and classic arabic grammar, which is itself mostly 'on the authority of Mr. X's hadith' we should seek clarity as much as possible by looking into all avaliable rescourses, such as the other languages that are relations of arabic, and also the letters themselves, which are where the root word gets its meaning from.
for instance, or father, comes from (an oxes head, denoting strength etc) and (a house), hence means, 'the strength of the house' or similar, ie the father.
similarly or son, comes from ( a house) and (seed), therefore a or son, means 'seed of the house' or 'one who carries on the house'Of course this is only my understanding, i think we should definately look further in depth into things though, instead of relying upon the definitions of lexicons etc.
Alhamdullilah, this has definately made me consider.
In regard to the other posts here, God is most definately always near, as he is The near/close, in regards to the verse i mentioned, i was pondering whether it was related to the concept of the two lives in the quran, as another topic was discussing, now i am not so sure. but either way, alhamdullilah it has made me consider.
Peace
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In terms of the definition of preposition in this verse, i read through the very long winded definitions of it in lanes lexicon, and it is possible that it is not literaly 'with'. I dont know, but i would like to look further into things like this, and more, in the quran, to see how they are used in there, because while lanes lexicon may be a reputed work, it is after all, pretty much based on the authority of hadiths. I think, in general, we should do our best to seek the truth straight from God, using the context and usage of the quran, and the base/root meaning of words.
I gave you way back a quote from the Qur'an with a bi preposition with the same function a in the aya which youare considering. It seems ither you took no nnotice or you forgot.
Salaam
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I gave you way back a quote from the Qur'an with a bi preposition with the same function a in the aya which youare considering. It seems ither you took no nnotice or you forgot.
Salaam
Peace,
Yes, you also literaly just quoted the verse in arabic, without any explanation i am aware of. I definately did notice it, and i posted the following in regard to it after another member, by gods will, brought my attention to the preposition, as possibly being your intentions in quoting it, after i posted in reply that i was unsure what your intention in posting that verse was.
gg
Peace,Praise God, good observation, i missed that, and as huruf did not provide any explanation, i did not know what to make of it.
I think the problem here lies in the interpretation, and translation, as that is where things get lost, nothing in the quran is realy irralevant as such, but many things are hard to translate, or misinterpreted.
i would interpret the phrase 'alay-kum bi-wakeel' as 'over you with a responsibility' i.e the whole phrase 'lastu alaykum biwakeel' means 'i do not have a responsibility over you'
i am not an expert on arabic though, i only have limited knowledge, and i could be wrong, i base my understanding on what i believe is gods guidance, as, i believe that it is him that teaches me the quran, and then i look up any relavent info i can, in this case checking my understanding against the root of wa-kaf-lam, and the grammar and context of the sentance. i would encourage people to verify things for themselves though.
i am open to being corrected however.
i think we cant just skip over words, as if they dont exsist, becuase God revealed every word for a reason, although i understand that they can be hard to understand or translate sometimes
peace,
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Peace,
Yes, you also literaly just quoted the verse in arabic, without any explanation i am aware of. I definately did notice it, and i posted the following in regard to it after another member, by gods will, brought my attention to the preposition, as possibly being your intentions in quoting it, after i posted in reply that i was unsure what your intention in posting that verse was.
I think it is what is called and idiomatic use and in fact it is frequent in the Qur'an. Looking just for the particle bi in the C
Qur'an Arabic Corpus, will give nothing since it does ot appear as such, but remembering some of the uses cann help. Here
2.74
There are many more occurrences of this Allah bi ghaafilin
and many more occurrencs of other kinds.
Maybe the idiom can be explained by some previous formulation for some reason, but the effect nonethelss seems to amount to saying
I (or whatever pronoun or name) am (or whatever conjugation) not that (whatever the "that" may represent.
(May be under the impression that whoever could expect that one should be that thing that he or she is not.)
Salaam
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yes,
just read baqarah 25, 38-39
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Quran points to a prior existence. this is our second chance, not first.
Read thishttp//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9608048.0
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9608048.0Peace, i will have a look at that, this is more or less what i was asking, i realize now my topic title is a little ambiguous or unclear.
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There is this show called The Ghost Inside My Child. Its talks about young people having memories of their past life. Its really intresting to watch.
Salaam
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There is this show called The Ghost Inside My Child. Its talks about young people having memories of their past life. Its really intresting to watch.
Salaam
is it based on true stories
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he is alwasy near to us, and we are actually a connection from our rab, our history start with God and end with God ,,,
to him we belong and to him we will return...
the bodily life is a punishment or test its a different matter... i dnt know whether getting this state of life is due to the challange or there was other reasons behind all this... is it all started due to the jealousy of energy beings.. what was the state of adam before eating something from tree... was he got no burden of body to take care of it,, including food cloth sex... and these things become our test.. for a certain time... lot of questions but quran talks in hints.. ? and its a reason now i understand ,, its better to seek God through intelligence same when somebody solve a puzzle and he achieve a picture when finish puzzle same is going oon with us but for sure we will be rewarded by awsome rewards that will make our real self/character/spirit very happy
It is a test. We are like seeds that need development and for that the seedling needs protection from thistles unless it will choke. The thistles is an ancient metaphor for the bodily exterior, i.e. the world. And Nafs is the metaphorical word of seed. And Rabb is the source of the seed.
For as long as we have been nafs's we have had bodies and never existed without it. We are shares ("children" of Rabb like blank copies with the same possibility to be as Rabb, but the flesh prevents us and actively seeks to consume us, and this is the test. Our test is to develop our seeds in this hostile environment and yet have it grow until ripe despite the challenge. Then we will be strong enough to break free of this world and become ethereal (as angels = managers of every affair).
There never was any jealousy and no person called Satan but that was an object of imagination by some superstitious clerics. Satan is a word for the "drive to enter in firmly", i.e. Homo sapiens instinct. This drive is what we were inspired to avoid.
Be well
Amenuel
