Quran is Clear Versus Allegorical in Verse 3:7
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Peace All,
The reason I asked about whether or not one ayat can be "tashaba" is because this particular form of the verb is one that demonstrates reciprocity.
Given this, when aayaat are said to be mutashaabihaat, it would mean they are similar to each other, not similar to something else. This is not about allegory in my opinion. That, I think is more aptly described by the term related to mathal.
While I have not come to a firm conclusion, my current understanding is that in 37, the references are to signs or verses similar to each other. In the case of verses, it may refer to verses like those speaking to riba which appear to have differences despite their similarity and the focus people choose to put on these differences when similar subjects are being discussed.
Imraan
Peace,
this is an interesting point, and i believe it can also/rather apply to this verse. as you noted, there are quite alot of verses that repeat things in different ways, and many people do choose to see a contradiction, when it is probably only them contradicting the truth with their interpretation.
all up, i think far to much attention is given to the verses open to interpretation, and far too little attention is paid to the clear verses which even a child can understand, the mother of the book. I am not saying we should neglect parts of the quran, but simply to bear in mind..
that we should not seek to interpret such things, but rather seek God to interpret them for us, and not hasten it. otherwise we are more likely just to put our own desires into it
Peace
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Peace All,
The reason I asked about whether or not one ayat can be "tashaba" is because this particular form of the verb is one that demonstrates reciprocity.
Given this, when aayaat are said to be mutashaabihaat, it would mean they are similar to each other, not similar to something else. This is not about allegory in my opinion. That, I think is more aptly described by the term related to mathal.
While I have not come to a firm conclusion, my current understanding is that in 37, the references are to signs or verses similar to each other. In the case of verses, it may refer to verses like those speaking to riba which appear to have differences despite their similarity and the focus people choose to put on these differences when similar subjects are being discussed.
Imraan
It is not Form-III which signifies reciprocity. You are absolutely right that it is not allegory. Practical books do not contain allegorical content.
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Tabweeb%20Part%202/115.Mutashabeha%20Sheen%20Ba%20Haa/4.gif Indefinite; feminine; plural; nominative; -- Verbal noun and Verb .
The fact about existing realities is that not all are visible to human naked eye. The Primal Creator and also the knowledgeable-observant-scientists convey the knowledge about realities not apparent to human eye by using the metaphors. Descriptions by metaphors enable people perceive a general idea-image of invisible fact by relating it to characteristic features of the metaphor.
Knowledge acquired by human beings, until seventh century, was through naked eye observation. Naked eye observation of an object and reality grants conviction about its existence. Thought of invisible realities was all along there in human mind that kept him busy in developing theories to gain a perception about various phenomena.
Unitary Verbal Passages mirroring physical realities existing in the Universe and human body through metaphors render the Book living in time and space. Knowledge about matter is verifiable in time and space. Anything said by the Book regarding physical matters could be subjected to verification in time and space about its truth to an exact detail. Falsification test of any book-statement could be the physical one. The facts mentioned in the Qur'aan about the Universe and human body are in itself the falsification test of the Book.
Format and Organization
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The fact about existing realities is that not all are visible to human naked eye. The Primal Creator and also the knowledgeable-observant-scientists convey the knowledge about realities not apparent to human eye by using the metaphors. Descriptions by metaphors enable people perceive a general idea-image of invisible fact by relating it to characteristic features of the metaphor.
peace mazhar ,
thats very true and logical...
i also have similar understanding.. sometimes we are unnable to tell whats going on our mind regarding the understanding of observing visibile things..
let say a example in chapter 55 regaridng the boundries of heaven and earth if we take it literally people assume its just the earth which we are living on,, infact its not the case .. but God giving us hint actually to come out of our bascis understanding shell to explore the discoveries ...
for me that earth include all the landmasses(multibillion planets)
right now we know billions of planet and billions of galaxies in our cosmic horizon i have a theory
for God its like a cup of tea he create a expanding ball in which all this is happening like a illusion of laws bound to us at specific loacation and time... we cannot control or change it apart from limited things what we actually need.. for survival and these things also done with the willness of God like rain, plant growth.. etc and God is telling us again and again to look at these signs..the cosmic ball is billion x billion x billion light years and who know apart from this cosmic ball what else is there ... how many more cosmic balls like this, how many more heavens and universes ...how many more creations ...
understanding of human being is developing by time to time ... but still we are very far from reality .. only the real entity is our lord who create all this not in vain...
somewhere God is telling us we did not create all this heaven and earth for mere play..
and a creation of heavens is more difficult than human being but little we understand ...
peace
God bless you -
and a creation of heavens is more difficult than human being but little we understand
"Difficult" is not there. Nothing is difficult for Him the Exalted.
Certainly, the act of Creation of the Skies and the Earth is comparatively a greater assignment - undertaking than the act of the creation of the species-Human Being.
However, most of the people remain in the state of not accepting/realizing this fact/reality . -
"Difficult" is not there. Nothing is difficult for Him the Exalted.
indeed nothing is difficult /hard for God to create,,
this verse is for us to compare ourself with the universe ..
7927 What! Are you the more difficult/hard/powerful to create or is the heaven that He built?
although the word ashad of arabic u can say hard difficult or powerful but its for us to ponder about it...
some of the translator interpret this word as difficult...
peace but my concept was clear about it...
peace..
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to he who much is given, then much will be required of him'
the more understanding we have, the greater the responsibility upon us is.
Yes.
everybody know its wrong, every religion, every nation..
even a teenager in his teenage doing all these things know its wrong...
God gave us scriptures but he also gave us a sense of right and wrong...
using that sense does not require any scripture...
Peace imrankhawaja we disagree, sunni, shia, and KKK, the Nazi's,
female genital mutilators, honor killers and many others think they are right.Peace All,
The reason I asked about whether or not one ayat can be "tashaba" is because this particular form of the verb is one that demonstrates reciprocity.
Given this, when aayaat are said to be mutashaabihaat, it would mean they are similar to each other, not similar to something else. This is not about allegory in my opinion. That, I think is more aptly described by the term related to mathal.
While I have not come to a firm conclusion, my current understanding is that in 37, the references are to signs or verses similar to each other. In the case of verses, it may refer to verses like those speaking to riba which appear to have differences despite their similarity and the focus people choose to put on these differences when similar subjects are being discussed.
Imraan
Interesting 1CELOSTNOWFOUND, could you give a translation of 3/7 from your perspective?
that we should not seek to interpret such things, but rather seek God to interpret them for us,
and not hasten it. otherwise we are more likely just to put our own desires into itwell said
peace
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Peace imrankhawaja we disagree, sunni, shia, and KKK, the Nazi's,
female genital mutilators, honor killers and many others think they are right.detailed it plz what i understand here is honor killing and female genital mutilators...
about honor killing people do it due to ego.. but everybody know ego is a nasty thing... satan did the same...
about female genital mutilators i again say nobody have a right to touch/harm any human being and everybody know it...
but its the issue of ignorance... i wonder tradition is strange thing in some areas people left a little bit drink in their cupp thinking its a good tradition ,, on other areas they drink it all never left a drink in cup becoz its their tradition to drink full otherwise host will get angry....
in some areas if a women talk with stranger its allowed for a man to kill her,,, while in other arreas if you even caught a wife or sister on bed with stranger you bring a drink for them... rotfl
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detailed it plz what i understand here is honor killing and female genital mutilators...
about honor killing people do it due to ego.. but everybody know ego is a nasty thing... satan did the same...
about female genital mutilators i again say nobody have a right to touch/harm any human being and everybody know it...
but its the issue of ignorance... i wonder tradition is strange thing in some areas people left a little bit drink in their cupp thinking its a good tradition ,, on other areas they drink it all never left a drink in cup becoz its their tradition to drink full otherwise host will get angry....
in some areas if a women talk with stranger its allowed for a man to kill her,,, while in other arreas if you even caught a wife or sister on bed with stranger you bring a drink for them... rotfl
Peace imrankhawaja, you seemed to have left out culture as a factor
in determining right and wrong handshakeGod bless you
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Peace imrankhawaja, you seemed to have left out culture as a factor
in determining right and wrong handshakeGod bless you
lol honor killing is also cultural my brother its you who bring cultural factor...
handshake -
Salaam to all Brothers/Sisters,
I truly love and respect each of you, learn a lot from each of you.
but are we not fftopic here, already for a long time?
Really, what was the Topic here? welcome
May be the Topic of Cancer or the Topic of Capricorn
rotfl rotfl rotfl
Could not help it.
Salam
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yes I am offtopic, I apologize.
I try to stay on topic.
There are no allegorical verses in the book except when it is clearly stated.
That we can not comprehend a lot of verses/words does not mean we have to take those verses/words allegorical or force an interpretation, especially when those interpretations have nothing positive to add.
I think the author of the quran is a bit more intelligent, wise, knowledgeable etc than any one of us, so I think it's a good idea to first question our own intelligence, wisdom, knowledge etc instead of that of the author, except if we think we know better than the author.As for you first question Reel 1689 does not close 37 out or vice versa. I understand the verses a little bit different, but even if you take kitab as book and the more traditional understanding then there is still no contradiction.
I have a book which explains every matter (1689) in this book I have besides clear verses also not so clear verses (37), but the book still explains every matter.
1689 does not refer to it's self (thus the book itself) but to "every matter", while 37 is referring to itself, thus the book.
I hope you understand what I mean. -
I think the author of the quran is a bit more intelligent, wise, knowledgeable etc than any one of us, so I think it's a good idea to first question our own intelligence, wisdom, knowledge etc instead of that of the author, except if we think we know better than the author.
Salaam Bender
No question about that and may be our present level of knowledge is not enough to explain some verses.
1689 does not refer to it's self (thus the book itself) but to "every matter", while 37 is referring to itself, thus the book.
Well said brother it makes sense.
May God bless you.
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Salaam Bender
No question about that and may be our present level of knowledge is not enough to explain some verses.
Well said brother it makes sense.
May God bless you.
Peace be upon you,
may be? i would say without any doubt in the least, our knowledge is not enough to explain many verses, i doubt even the most knowledgable human being could encompass a fraction of the quran, it is an honourable book, and The glorious Quran. we do not even realise the depth of it. we cannot. The Glory be to God who revealed it.
It is my view that the whole of human kind and jinn, gathered together could not explain or translate or interpret the whole quran. This is what is see in Gods promise that they could not 'produce something like it', as well as obviously just making up something entirely different.
Peace.
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What's your opinion about male genital mutilators?
yes I am offtopic, I apologize.
..............
I think the author of the quran is a bit more intelligent, wise, knowledgeable etc than any one of us,
so I think it's a good idea to first question our own intelligence, wisdom, knowledge etc instead of that of the author, except if we think we know better than the author.Salaam/Peace Bender,
I think your Apology should definitely be accepted, yes especially due to your Eloquent Statement in your second post above. bravo
On the other hand, being an Adult who has already been circumcised --at least 40 years ago, so has nothing to lose or fear, &
I can courageously stand in favor of Circumcision against you,due to the fact that TORAH is absolutely Supported in QURAN (=28/48-50 & 46/12)
http//biblehub.com/esv/genesis/17.htm
in another thread, in the future, inshaAL-LAH. handshake
Remain in peace/salaam.
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indeed nothing is difficult /hard for God to create,,
this verse is for us to compare ourself with the universe ..
7927 What! Are you the more difficult/hard/powerful to create or is the heaven that He built?
although the word ashad of arabic u can say hard difficult or powerful but its for us to ponder about it...
some of the translator interpret this word as difficult...
peace but my concept was clear about it...
peace..
Simple principle of semantics Each word has certain irreducible semantic features; and conversely certain semantic features cannot be inserted into it.
Akbar does not have semantic feature of "difficult" in it.
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Keeping my Promise, I should clearly relate how I understand these Verses =3/7-8 in QURAN TESTAMENT,
also and especially in "Mathematical respect" here,
and then totally stop writing here, but continue to read and learn
from every faithful Member of this Forum, always, inshaAL-LAH.I want to keep it as short as possible and to the point.
So let's start, in the Name of AL-LAH, here==============================================================
The most Fundamental and important Example I can think of right now
--(which is also the most Easy/Clear/Essential to understand)-- in this regard, isExactly these four specific Words of Basmalah (=Asm Al-lah Al-Rahman Al-Raheem)
which always comes essentially as/in perfect Pairs again (51/49 = 74/26-30, 31),
in the very first place, heretotal number of occurrences
in QURAN TESTAMENTAl-Rahman < > Al-lah
Lil-Rahman < > Lil-lah57 2698
in total in total
=19x... =19x...Al-Asm < > Al-Raheem
Asm < > Raheem19 114
in total in total
=19x... =19x...
sm < > ilah
3 95
in total in totalAs we should clearly see above
based on Chapter/Verse No. (=74/2 in QURAN TESTAMENT"sm" should be exempted --on the left side above--
--(beacuse there is one letter (=A) missing in the beginning;
when we compare it to that most ideal/perfect Form above ("sm" X "Al-Asm"and "ilah" should be excluded --on the right side above--
--(beacuse there is one letter (=I) extra in the beginning;
when we compare it to that most ideal/perfect Form above ("ilah" X "Al-lah"in --(exact "opposite" sense)-- in such a perfectly parallel and absolutely Complementary manner above,
they shall thus rightfully be placed under our Table above.(=74/26-27-28-29-30)
Therefore
Each of those four specific Words of Basmalah (=Asm & Al-lah & Al-Rahman & Al-Raheem)
that perfectly give multiples (=19x...) on our Table above
must be those Firmly-Established Signs (=Ayatun Muhkamatun)
specifically foretold in these Verses =3/7 & 13/39 in QURAN TESTAMENT,and then
Each of those two specific words (=sm & ilah)
that do Not give multiples (=19x...) under our Table above
must be those Vaguely-Established Signs (=Ayatun Mutashabihatun)
specifically foretold in these Verses =3/7 & 13/39 in QURAN TESTAMENT.So finally, let us clearly see these most Critical and important Verses (=3/7-8 & 13/38-39)
in QURAN TESTAMENT above,
now here again, in this Respect, thus============
7- HE is the ONE Who sent down to you the Written-Document,
from which there are Firmly-Established Signs (=Ayatun Muhkamatun);
=i.e. each of those four specific Words of Basmalah (=Asm & Al-lah & Al-Rahman & Al-Raheem)
that perfectly give multiples (=19x...) on our Table above;they are the Essence of the Written-Document (=Ummu al-Kitab)
--on our Table above,and others which are Vaguely-Established (Signs) =(Ayatun) Mutashabihatun);
=i.e. each of those two specific words (=sm & ilah)
that do Not give multiples (=19x...) under our Table above.As for those who have a crookedness in their hearts, they will go after that which are of
Vaguely-Established-ones (=ma tashabaha minhu);
seeking (to create) confusion, and seeking (to demand) its (rightful) interpretation/explanation
=i.e. they will always be asking why are they exempted & excluded --on the left side & on the right side--
from our Table above? What can be a rightful interpretation/explanation for it?But none know its (rightful) interpretation/explanation except AL-LAH and those who are well founded in Knowledge;
(=its rightful interpretation/explanation is already clearly and unmistakably pointed out above.)(thereafter) they (=i.e. those who are well founded in Knowledge) say
"We have believed in it;
(for) all --(of those Firmly-Established Signs --on our Table above--
and Vaguely-Established Signs --under our Table above-- are from our LORD."But none will take-heed except those who possess Intelligence. (Chapter 3, Verse 7)
38- ...... It is not for a Messenger to come with any "Sign" --(whether a Firmly-Established Sign --on our Table above--
or a Vaguely-Established Sign --under our Table above--
as clearly emphasized in the above Verse, in the first place =3/7)-- except with the Permission of AL-LAH;
(because) for each course there is a Written-Decree.39- (Because) AL-LAH neutralizes what HE wishes (as/of those Vaguely-Established Signs --under our Table above),
and authorizes (as/of those Firmly-Established Signs --on our Table above),because with HIM is the Essence of the Written-Document (=Ummu al-Kitab) --on our Table above--
as clearly emphasized in the very first paragraph of this Verse again =3/7 in the very first place above).(QURAN TESTAMENT 3/7 = 13/38-39)
Remain in peace/salaam.
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Simple principle of semantics Each word has certain irreducible semantic features; and conversely certain semantic features cannot be inserted into it.
Akbar does not have semantic feature of "difficult" in it.
brother peace
its actually " ashaddu " which means intense/hard/difficult/stronger/superior depend on the context