Who did read the Gospel, Psalms and the Torah?
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What i can't understand is, how can there not be a written Gospel with the supervision of Jesus, son of Mary, the Messiah! <-- How?
Yeah, i believe Jesus was obeying the Torah if i read the current Gospel.
Well based on the writings of Matt, Mark and Luke, Jesus preaching with his friends has been cut short.. the entire story being told in those books happened in less than one year.
And he cannot stay with his friends after he survived the crucifixion (to write any book). According to the books written by gentlemen above, he was 'lifted up to heaven'... But I don't believe that to be honest.. one thing for sure he disappeared... most probably went into 'someplace safe' hiding away from the insanity of Jewish Rabbi, "Jewish Sharia Police" and their fanatic supporters. Just like what happened to Abraham after he survived the 'burning on the stake'.
Jesus didn't obey the Torah law that's why he was sentenced to death..
He perform the worst sin ever.. the sin of "SHIRK".. by not obeying the restriction of the sabbath day and claiming that he was the son of the most high.By the way, the Torah books (Genesis, Numbers, Deutoronomy, Exodus, Leviticus) was also being written without the supervision of Moses..
And the Quran was also written and stamped out without the supervision of Muhammad..So truly.. there's nothing that is extra-ordinary here.. all the so-called "Books authored by God" was written without any supervision of the so-called prophets..
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is it logicall that if quran also written without the authroisation of God or prophet,
if its true then with the passage of time why did not anybody found any error of any type in it,
like compare with other books there are clear contradictions with the statements and scientific issues, wheras quran is clear and impressive in many ways..
i think we should need to approach everything with neutral mind and come up with a result there must b one scriptture of God exist wthoout any corruption and by analysis we need to get results where everything is standing... its not my challange its the challange of God in one of his books name quran,
other books lost their original language whereas arabic get more advance with the passage of time,,
@ jaffar i know you must have something to say about this becoz you already did your search about it ?
peace
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Well based on the writings of Matt, Mark and Luke, Jesus preaching with his friends has been cut short.. the entire story being told in those books happened in less than one year.
And he cannot stay with his friends after he survived the crucifixion (to write any book). According to the books written by gentlemen above, he was 'lifted up to heaven'... But I don't believe that to be honest.. one thing for sure he disappeared... most probably went into 'someplace safe' hiding away from the insanity of Jewish Rabbi, "Jewish Sharia Police" and their fanatic supporters. Just like what happened to Abraham after he survived the 'burning on the stake'.
Jesus didn't obey the Torah law that's why he was sentenced to death..
He perform the worst sin ever.. the sin of "SHIRK".. by not obeying the restriction of the sabbath day and claiming that he was the son of the most high.By the way, the Torah books (Genesis, Numbers, Deutoronomy, Exodus, Leviticus) was also being written without the supervision of Moses..
And the Quran was also written and stamped out without the supervision of Muhammad..So truly.. there's nothing that is extra-ordinary here.. all the so-called "Books authored by God" was written without any supervision of the so-called prophets..
Quran 4158 Instead, God had raised him to Himself; and God is Noble, Wise.
Gospel - Matthew 5
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.More about the Shabbat
Gospel - Luke 1310 And he was teaching in one of the synagogues on the sabbath.
See also mt 121, 122, 125, 128, 1210, 1211, 1212, 2420, 281 mr 121, 223, 224, 227, 228, 32, 34, 62, 1542, 161, lk 416, 431, 61, 62, 65, 66, 67, 69, 1310, 1314, 1315, 1316, 141, 143, 145, 2356, jh 59, 510, 516, 518, 722, 723, 914, 916, 1931
What made you think that Jesus did not obey the Torah?
Gospel - Luke 23
54 And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on.Gospel - Luke 2356
And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment. -
God gave him a natural death, after that his body was left which have nothing to do with real person/spirit/rooh so scientifically they were failed to crucify or kill him... or insult him..
God is the protector of righteous..
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I really find it hard to grasp that it's being said that a prophet didn't authorise a written Scripture that we have.
May my Lord guide me.
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I really find it hard to grasp that it's being said that a prophet didn't authorise a written Scripture that we have.
May my Lord guide me.
infact its a bg discussion neeed to solve lot of stages of history how things work before us...
what i understood is , the previous scriptures were for time being and for specific people and for specific times, let it understand by an example , there was restriction of catching fish on a specific day of week, but in this age we dnt have any such restriction,,
and due to unavilaibitly of better tecnology of saving things for long term were not introduced.. so the last book till age is the book we can see its original pages are in birmingham library the city where i m living,, make me think that the proper time for a universal message was at that era and the original command of God is preserved thats why God made a challange in that book that its preserved in master tablet,
the only massive book which is also saved in the hearts of beleivers from chain to chain....
so in my analysis quran is words of God which is free of corruption,,
rest of the scriptures are also words of God but along with the words of historians and lot of other connections ,
some of them are also completed by messengers in case of moses ten commandments in which we realise all ten comandments are also similar to the things tht God forbidden in qurran..
but again we need to verify all things through intellignet approach and i m satisfied atleast quran fullfill that challange...
peace
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infact its a bg discussion neeed to solve lot of stages of history how things work before us...
what i understood is , the previous scriptures were for time being and for specific people and for specific times, let it understand by an example , there was restriction of catching fish on a specific day of week, but in this age we dnt have any such restriction,,
and due to unavilaibitly of better tecnology of saving things for long term were not introduced.. so the last book till age is the book we can see its original pages are in birmingham library the city where i m living,, make me think that the proper time for a universal message was at that era and the original command of God is preserved thats why God made a challange in that book that its preserved in master tablet,
the only massive book which is also saved in the hearts of beleivers from chain to chain....
so in my analysis quran is words of God which is free of corruption,,
rest of the scriptures are also words of God but along with the words of historians and lot of other connections ,
some of them are also completed by messengers in case of moses ten commandments in which we realise all ten comandments are also similar to the things tht God forbidden in qurran..
but again we need to verify all things through intellignet approach and i m satisfied atleast quran fullfill that challange...
peace
Restriction for catching fish?
Where did you read that if i may ask?
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infact its a bg discussion neeed to solve lot of stages of history how things work before us...
what i understood is , the previous scriptures were for time being and for specific people and for specific times, let it understand by an example , there was restriction of catching fish on a specific day of week, but in this age we dnt have any such restriction,,
and due to unavilaibitly of better tecnology of saving things for long term were not introduced.. so the last book till age is the book we can see its original pages are in birmingham library the city where i m living,, make me think that the proper time for a universal message was at that era and the original command of God is preserved thats why God made a challange in that book that its preserved in master tablet,
the only massive book which is also saved in the hearts of beleivers from chain to chain....
so in my analysis quran is words of God which is free of corruption,,
rest of the scriptures are also words of God but along with the words of historians and lot of other connections ,
some of them are also completed by messengers in case of moses ten commandments in which we realise all ten comandments are also similar to the things tht God forbidden in qurran..
but again we need to verify all things through intellignet approach and i m satisfied atleast quran fullfill that challange...
peace
Why can the word of God be mixed with the word of human beings? Why are you so sure about the rest of the scriptures not being pure anymore?
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infact its a bg discussion neeed to solve lot of stages of history how things work before us...
what i understood is , the previous scriptures were for time being and for specific people and for specific times, let it understand by an example , there was restriction of catching fish on a specific day of week, but in this age we dnt have any such restriction,,
and due to unavilaibitly of better tecnology of saving things for long term were not introduced.. so the last book till age is the book we can see its original pages are in birmingham library the city where i m living,, make me think that the proper time for a universal message was at that era and the original command of God is preserved thats why God made a challange in that book that its preserved in master tablet,
the only massive book which is also saved in the hearts of beleivers from chain to chain....
so in my analysis quran is words of God which is free of corruption,,
rest of the scriptures are also words of God but along with the words of historians and lot of other connections ,
some of them are also completed by messengers in case of moses ten commandments in which we realise all ten comandments are also similar to the things tht God forbidden in qurran..
but again we need to verify all things through intellignet approach and i m satisfied atleast quran fullfill that challange...
peace
Yes, without verification we are bound to not use our sense but merily follow blindly what suits our desires. And that's what i don't want to do.
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546-48
And we followed over their footsteps with Jesus, son of mary, attesting to what he possessed of the torah, and we gave him the gospel. In it is a guidance, and a light, and a attestation to what he possessed of the torah, and a guidance and advice to the reverant. So let the people of the gospel judge with what God has revealed in it. And whoever is not judging with what God has revealed, then it is those who are the the disobedient transgressors. And we sent down to you the ordinance with the truth, attesting to what you possess of the ordainance, and a WITNESS/PROOF/VOUCHSAFE over it. So judge between them with what God has revealed and do not follow their desires, when the truth has come to you. To each of you, we have made of you, a law and a clear way, and if God willed, he could have made you one community, however the reason is to test you with what he has given you. So be foremost in the best. To God you all return, and he will inform you of what you differed with it.
This is my own interpretation, based on my limited understanding, and may, and likely does, contain errors, but i have sincerely tried to interpret and translate the text..
Peace.
'the gospel' is what God revealed, and what was given to jesus.
'the torah' is what God revealed, and what was given to moses.
the word in caps is my understanding of 'muhaymen', and may or may not be correct, but in my understanding it certainly does not mean superceeding!again i could be wrong.. God knows best. Verify for yourselves.
Peace
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What made you think that Jesus did not obey the Torah?
It wasn't me who thinked that. that was the official verdict for Jesus on Sanhedrin court. (Jewish Sharia Court), he was guilty of violating the Torah law on base of shirk. Read the Gospel on the section where they put Jesus on trial..
While based on my understanding of the reading, Jesus was a rock star.. in short period he managed to get millions of followers on Instagram. Groupies followed him everywhere.. He perform the nation wide tour around Judea and Galileel and all venue was sold out... thousands appeared on his concert..
Alas.. he seems to spread the message of rebellion against the religious establishment, calling them liars, hypocrites and vipers... if he wasn't stopped, the entire religious establishment will be over. Ulema will be disregarded by the people.. Basically he's the enemy of Islam.. erggh.. I mean the enemy of Judaism. so they bribed one of his follower to act as a (false) witness, designed a false accusation against him, yet forward the execution to the Roman authority, by telling the Roman governor that this dude Jesus is planning for a rebellion against Roman authority because he claimed himself to be the king of Judea. The infamous INRI, Iesous Nazarenous Rex Iudearum (Jesus the Nazarenes, King Of Judea).
Why they forwarded it to the Romans?
To avoid people outrage against the religious establishment of course... because this Jesus was very popular..Yet one dude within the Sharia court sympathize with his movement, he disagree with other court members yet he didn't voiced it explicitly as he thought it's quite useless to do so. His name is Joseph Arimathea, he designed a scheme to save Jesus, he bribed the Roman centurion to not break his legs and bones and once he passed out on the cross he took him to his place for recovery.
After recovery it's not safe for Jesus to continue lurking around Judea, so most probably Mr Arimathea also helped his escape from Judea.. After the Crucifixion there are no more story about Jesus, Mary (his mom) and Mary Magdalena as if they all vanishes to thin air...
The movement was then continues by his brothers, colleague and friends.... yet most.. if not all of them were finally murdered too....
"Lifted up to heaven" might be a cover up story so the authority will not continue to look for him..
Jesus (or any other human) will die of suffocation because of the light air if he really was propelled upward to the sky.. since he didn't wear any proper suit or life support systems with him.From my perspective, the Gospel is a story about rebellion against religion, the Gospel is among the most anti religious book ever being written. Oddly as time progress it become a "religious book" by itself.
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Restriction for catching fish?
Where did you read that if i may ask?
i think its written in the early parts of chapter 2 in quran i cant recall the verse i will post it afterwards .. if i find it..
peace
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i think its written in the early parts of chapter 2 in quran i cant recall the verse i will post it afterwards .. if i find it..
peace
What i can remember is that they tried to catch the fish, but they forgot it..
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What i can remember is that they tried to catch the fish, but they forgot it..
actually i just read it again... sorry for misunderstanding ,, although in brackets some people told it was fish catching thats what i read in urdu translation but now i properly read it,,, it was about some restriction on saturday/sabath... and then God punished these people as monkey... i m giving you reference here,, you can read it by your own.. thats what happen when u read the brackets. although i cannot say whether the restriction was catching a fish or something else...
And well ye knew those amongst you who transgressed in the matter of the Sabbath/saturday We said to them "Be ye apes, despised and rejected." 2 65
peace
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Why can the word of God be mixed with the word of human beings? Why are you so sure about the rest of the scriptures not being pure anymore?
i m not saying , thats what the history is telling us, becoz bible got plantey of versions. and their original languagelost , and these other scriptures are in hand to hand with historians, and when modern day scientific theories and understanding we filter from it, it contradict a lot,,
sometimes even the authoer seems to contradict with his own statements , i can provide you a link of debate between dr william campbel and zakir naik about the topic, the quran and bible in the light of science... and it was very popular, show, zakir point our more than 100 scientific mistakes from which william campbell didnot rectify only one...
on the other hand dr william campbell also point out 6 mistakes in quran... and with the grace of God zakir rectify all of them...
my personal belief is quran is original words of God for all the mankind... before it was for specific period for specific people...
qurna also challanges multiple times to bring a chapter like this if you are in doubt...
i also try to find a mistake in quran but still i m unnable to find any..
peace
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Yes, without verification we are bound to not use our sense but merily follow blindly what suits our desires. And that's what i don't want to do.
exactly my brother verification with neutral and honest mind is the key of success..
peace God bless you
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i m not saying , thats what the history is telling us, becoz bible got plantey of versions. and their original languagelost , and these other scriptures are in hand to hand with historians, and when modern day scientific theories and understanding we filter from it, it contradict a lot,,
sometimes even the authoer seems to contradict with his own statements , i can provide you a link of debate between dr william campbel and zakir naik about the topic, the quran and bible in the light of science... and it was very popular, show, zakir point our more than 100 scientific mistakes from which william campbell didnot rectify only one...
on the other hand dr william campbell also point out 6 mistakes in quran... and with the grace of God zakir rectify all of them...
my personal belief is quran is original words of God for all the mankind... before it was for specific period for specific people...
qurna also challanges multiple times to bring a chapter like this if you are in doubt...
i also try to find a mistake in quran but still i m unnable to find any..
peace
Peace,
543
But how can they made you their judge, while with them is the torah. In it is the judgement of God. Then they turn away, and those are not with the trusters. Indeed We revealed the torah. In it is a guidance and a light, with it judged the prophets - those who had submitted. To those jews, and the rabbis, and the scribes/scholars, with what they were entrusted of the ordainance of God, and they were witnessess to it. So do not be afraid of the human beings, but fear me. And do not exchange with my verses a small gain. And whoever is not judging with what God has revealed, then those, it is they who are the rejectors.546-48
And we followed over their footsteps with Jesus, son of mary, attesting to what he possessed of the torah, and we gave him the gospel. In it is a guidance, and a light, and a attestation to what he possessed of the torah, and a guidance and advice to the reverant. So let the people of the gospel judge with what God has revealed in it. And whoever is not judging with what God has revealed, then it is those who are the the disobedient transgressors. And we sent down to you the ordinance with the truth, attesting to what you possess of the ordainance, and a witness/keeper/proof over it. So judge between them with what God has revealed and do not follow their desires, when the truth has come to you. To each of you, we have made of you, a law and a clear way, and if God willed, he could have made you one community, however the reason is to test you with what he has given you. So be foremost in the best. To God you all return, and he will inform you of what you differed with it.This is my own interpretation, done sincerely and truthfull as possible, with my limited understanding, i encourage those who seek the truth to verify for themselves everything, and not take my word for it, to seek guidance from their Lord, and understanding of the original Quran.
from theese verses, to me it seems clear, that God is instructing the respective people to judge by what God has revealed in The Book, including the Torah and the Gospel. God would not give an instruction that is impossible to follow, hence they must be intact.
I Believe that the Torah and the Gospel are for the most part intact, God does not give confusing, or misleading instructions. I believe that the problem with the Torah, and the Gospel, lies in the interpretation thereof, and the distortions by certain people, but i believe the Words of God are intact, as we know from the as God is sufficient to protect His revelation (the original revelations of God)
some points of observation
what is the truth from God?
2948-9
And you did not recite from before it from a book, and you did not mark/enscribe it with your right hand, then surely the vain/arogant/false ones have doubted. No! it is clear signs in the minds/hearts of those who have been given knowledge.
In regards to the Torah, i have the following notes
...in reference to the Masoretic Text the word mesorah has a very specific meaning the diacritic markings of the text of the Hebrew Bible and concise marginal notes in manuscripts (and later printings) of the Hebrew Bible which note textual details, usually about the precise spelling of words.
...By long tradition, a ritual Sefer Torah (Torah scroll) could contain only the Hebrew consonantal text ? nothing added, nothing taken away. The Masoretic codices however, provide extensive additional material, called masorah, to show correct pronunciation and cantillation, protect against scribal errors, and annotate possible variants. The manuscripts thus include vowel points, pronunciation marks and stress accents in the text, short annotations in the side margins, and longer more extensive notes in the upper and lower margins and collected at the end of each book....
as if a sign from our lord..
The Hebrew word masorah is taken from the Book of Ezekiel 2037 and means originally "legcuffs"
that is from wikipedia on Masoretic Text..
certainly they have shackled themselves to their own interpretation. Although the Masoretic Text is not the only source of translation of the Bible, it certainly would have a great influence on it, and we know that the original Torah was written without vowels, just like the Quran. I believe the original material is largely intact, but THE INTERPRETATION, may be, and most probably is highly distorted. In my honest understanding, the samaratain pentetauch is likely the most intact copy of the torah we have, as, in my understanding it was the last to adopt legcuffs
As for which mountain is which, Our Lord knows best.
Peace
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Peace,
543
But how can they made you their judge, while with them is the torah. In it is the judgement of God. Then they turn away, and those are not with the trusters. Indeed We revealed the torah. In it is a guidance and a light, with it judged the prophets - those who had submitted. To those jews, and the rabbis, and the scribes/scholars, with what they were entrusted of the ordainance of God, and they were witnessess to it. So do not be afraid of the human beings, but fear me. And do not exchange with my verses a small gain. And whoever is not judging with what God has revealed, then those, it is they who are the rejectors.546-48
And we followed over their footsteps with Jesus, son of mary, attesting to what he possessed of the torah, and we gave him the gospel. In it is a guidance, and a light, and a attestation to what he possessed of the torah, and a guidance and advice to the reverant. So let the people of the gospel judge with what God has revealed in it. And whoever is not judging with what God has revealed, then it is those who are the the disobedient transgressors. And we sent down to you the ordinance with the truth, attesting to what you possess of the ordainance, and a witness/keeper/proof over it. So judge between them with what God has revealed and do not follow their desires, when the truth has come to you. To each of you, we have made of you, a law and a clear way, and if God willed, he could have made you one community, however the reason is to test you with what he has given you. So be foremost in the best. To God you all return, and he will inform you of what you differed with it.This is my own interpretation, done sincerely and truthfull as possible, with my limited understanding, i encourage those who seek the truth to verify for themselves everything, and not take my word for it, to seek guidance from their Lord, and understanding of the original Quran.
from theese verses, to me it seems clear, that God is instructing the respective people to judge by what God has revealed in The Book, including the Torah and the Gospel. God would not give an instruction that is impossible to follow, hence they must be intact.
I Believe that the Torah and the Gospel are for the most part intact, God does not give confusing, or misleading instructions. I believe that the problem with the Torah, and the Gospel, lies in the interpretation thereof, and the distortions by certain people, but i believe the Words of God are intact, as we know from the as God is sufficient to protect His revelation (the original revelations of God)
some points of observation
what is the truth from God?
2948-9
And you did not recite from before it from a book, and you did not mark/enscribe it with your right hand, then surely the vain/arogant/false ones have doubted. No! it is clear signs in the minds/hearts of those who have been given knowledge.
In regards to the Torah, i have the following notes
...in reference to the Masoretic Text the word mesorah has a very specific meaning the diacritic markings of the text of the Hebrew Bible and concise marginal notes in manuscripts (and later printings) of the Hebrew Bible which note textual details, usually about the precise spelling of words.
...By long tradition, a ritual Sefer Torah (Torah scroll) could contain only the Hebrew consonantal text ? nothing added, nothing taken away. The Masoretic codices however, provide extensive additional material, called masorah, to show correct pronunciation and cantillation, protect against scribal errors, and annotate possible variants. The manuscripts thus include vowel points, pronunciation marks and stress accents in the text, short annotations in the side margins, and longer more extensive notes in the upper and lower margins and collected at the end of each book....
as if a sign from our lord..
The Hebrew word masorah is taken from the Book of Ezekiel 2037 and means originally "legcuffs"
that is from wikipedia on Masoretic Text..
certainly they have shackled themselves to their own interpretation. Although the Masoretic Text is not the only source of translation of the Bible, it certainly would have a great influence on it, and we know that the original Torah was written without vowels, just like the Quran. I believe the original material is largely intact, but THE INTERPRETATION, may be, and most probably is highly distorted. In my honest understanding, the samaratain pentetauch is likely the most intact copy of the torah we have, as, in my understanding it was the last to adopt legcuffs )
As for which mountain is which, Our Lord knows best.
Peace
"So do not be afraid of the human beings, but fear me"
All praise due to God, Lord of the worlds. Good to be reminded of that!
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Peace,
543
But how can they made you their judge, while with them is the torah. In it is the judgement of God. Then they turn away, and those are not with the trusters. Indeed We revealed the torah. In it is a guidance and a light, with it judged the prophets - those who had submitted. To those jews, and the rabbis, and the scribes/scholars, with what they were entrusted of the ordainance of God, and they were witnessess to it. So do not be afraid of the human beings, but fear me. And do not exchange with my verses a small gain. And whoever is not judging with what God has revealed, then those, it is they who are the rejectors.546-48
And we followed over their footsteps with Jesus, son of mary, attesting to what he possessed of the torah, and we gave him the gospel. In it is a guidance, and a light, and a attestation to what he possessed of the torah, and a guidance and advice to the reverant. So let the people of the gospel judge with what God has revealed in it. And whoever is not judging with what God has revealed, then it is those who are the the disobedient transgressors. And we sent down to you the ordinance with the truth, attesting to what you possess of the ordainance, and a witness/keeper/proof over it. So judge between them with what God has revealed and do not follow their desires, when the truth has come to you. To each of you, we have made of you, a law and a clear way, and if God willed, he could have made you one community, however the reason is to test you with what he has given you. So be foremost in the best. To God you all return, and he will inform you of what you differed with it.This is my own interpretation, done sincerely and truthfull as possible, with my limited understanding, i encourage those who seek the truth to verify for themselves everything, and not take my word for it, to seek guidance from their Lord, and understanding of the original Quran.
from theese verses, to me it seems clear, that God is instructing the respective people to judge by what God has revealed in The Book, including the Torah and the Gospel. God would not give an instruction that is impossible to follow, hence they must be intact.
I Believe that the Torah and the Gospel are for the most part intact, God does not give confusing, or misleading instructions. I believe that the problem with the Torah, and the Gospel, lies in the interpretation thereof, and the distortions by certain people, but i believe the Words of God are intact, as we know from the as God is sufficient to protect His revelation (the original revelations of God)
some points of observation
what is the truth from God?
2948-9
And you did not recite from before it from a book, and you did not mark/enscribe it with your right hand, then surely the vain/arogant/false ones have doubted. No! it is clear signs in the minds/hearts of those who have been given knowledge.
In regards to the Torah, i have the following notes
...in reference to the Masoretic Text the word mesorah has a very specific meaning the diacritic markings of the text of the Hebrew Bible and concise marginal notes in manuscripts (and later printings) of the Hebrew Bible which note textual details, usually about the precise spelling of words.
...By long tradition, a ritual Sefer Torah (Torah scroll) could contain only the Hebrew consonantal text ? nothing added, nothing taken away. The Masoretic codices however, provide extensive additional material, called masorah, to show correct pronunciation and cantillation, protect against scribal errors, and annotate possible variants. The manuscripts thus include vowel points, pronunciation marks and stress accents in the text, short annotations in the side margins, and longer more extensive notes in the upper and lower margins and collected at the end of each book....
as if a sign from our lord..
The Hebrew word masorah is taken from the Book of Ezekiel 2037 and means originally "legcuffs"
that is from wikipedia on Masoretic Text..
certainly they have shackled themselves to their own interpretation. Although the Masoretic Text is not the only source of translation of the Bible, it certainly would have a great influence on it, and we know that the original Torah was written without vowels, just like the Quran. I believe the original material is largely intact, but THE INTERPRETATION, may be, and most probably is highly distorted. In my honest understanding, the samaratain pentetauch is likely the most intact copy of the torah we have, as, in my understanding it was the last to adopt legcuffs )
As for which mountain is which, Our Lord knows best.
Peace
Did the Quran say that the Torah and the Gospel are not intact anymore?
-
Peace,
543
But how can they made you their judge, while with them is the torah. In it is the judgement of God. Then they turn away, and those are not with the trusters. Indeed We revealed the torah. In it is a guidance and a light, with it judged the prophets - those who had submitted. To those jews, and the rabbis, and the scribes/scholars, with what they were entrusted of the ordainance of God, and they were witnessess to it. So do not be afraid of the human beings, but fear me. And do not exchange with my verses a small gain. And whoever is not judging with what God has revealed, then those, it is they who are the rejectors.546-48
And we followed over their footsteps with Jesus, son of mary, attesting to what he possessed of the torah, and we gave him the gospel. In it is a guidance, and a light, and a attestation to what he possessed of the torah, and a guidance and advice to the reverant. So let the people of the gospel judge with what God has revealed in it. And whoever is not judging with what God has revealed, then it is those who are the the disobedient transgressors. And we sent down to you the ordinance with the truth, attesting to what you possess of the ordainance, and a witness/keeper/proof over it. So judge between them with what God has revealed and do not follow their desires, when the truth has come to you. To each of you, we have made of you, a law and a clear way, and if God willed, he could have made you one community, however the reason is to test you with what he has given you. So be foremost in the best. To God you all return, and he will inform you of what you differed with it.This is my own interpretation, done sincerely and truthfull as possible, with my limited understanding, i encourage those who seek the truth to verify for themselves everything, and not take my word for it, to seek guidance from their Lord, and understanding of the original Quran.
from theese verses, to me it seems clear, that God is instructing the respective people to judge by what God has revealed in The Book, including the Torah and the Gospel. God would not give an instruction that is impossible to follow, hence they must be intact.
I Believe that the Torah and the Gospel are for the most part intact, God does not give confusing, or misleading instructions. I believe that the problem with the Torah, and the Gospel, lies in the interpretation thereof, and the distortions by certain people, but i believe the Words of God are intact, as we know from the as God is sufficient to protect His revelation (the original revelations of God)
some points of observation
what is the truth from God?
2948-9
And you did not recite from before it from a book, and you did not mark/enscribe it with your right hand, then surely the vain/arogant/false ones have doubted. No! it is clear signs in the minds/hearts of those who have been given knowledge.
In regards to the Torah, i have the following notes
...in reference to the Masoretic Text the word mesorah has a very specific meaning the diacritic markings of the text of the Hebrew Bible and concise marginal notes in manuscripts (and later printings) of the Hebrew Bible which note textual details, usually about the precise spelling of words.
...By long tradition, a ritual Sefer Torah (Torah scroll) could contain only the Hebrew consonantal text ? nothing added, nothing taken away. The Masoretic codices however, provide extensive additional material, called masorah, to show correct pronunciation and cantillation, protect against scribal errors, and annotate possible variants. The manuscripts thus include vowel points, pronunciation marks and stress accents in the text, short annotations in the side margins, and longer more extensive notes in the upper and lower margins and collected at the end of each book....
as if a sign from our lord..
The Hebrew word masorah is taken from the Book of Ezekiel 2037 and means originally "legcuffs"
that is from wikipedia on Masoretic Text..
certainly they have shackled themselves to their own interpretation. Although the Masoretic Text is not the only source of translation of the Bible, it certainly would have a great influence on it, and we know that the original Torah was written without vowels, just like the Quran. I believe the original material is largely intact, but THE INTERPRETATION, may be, and most probably is highly distorted. In my honest understanding, the samaratain pentetauch is likely the most intact copy of the torah we have, as, in my understanding it was the last to adopt legcuffs )
As for which mountain is which, Our Lord knows best.
Peace
Have you seen the Oldest written Torah Book?