Was the Quran we have now written and authorised by Mohammed the Prophet ?
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Was the Quran that we have now written and authorised by Mohammed the Prophet?
If so, could you please elaborate on it since i am seeking for the science of it.
Quick answer We don't know...
There isn't any statement of "I'm Muhammad, and I have thoroughly reviewed this document and declare it to be true as per my knowledge. It contains X sentences, Y words and Z letters"...
Most probably, if refering to the "Standard Islamic History" it wasn't written and authorized by Mohammad the prophet as it was compiled by a caliph long after Mohammad's death.
But does it really matter?
That's why one should not take a book (any book) as if it's an idol..
Does Tao The Ching that we have now written and authorized by Lao Tse?
The same answer We don't know..
And for the majority of it's readers, it doesn't really matter.. as they don't treat the book as idol or consider it as holy..The book of Gospels (especially Mark and Matthew) really INSPIRED me, it's opening up a new idea, a new point of view.. although it wasn't written and/or authorized by Jesus (and / or God).. And so does Book of Isaiah, Daniel and Jeremiah.. and many of other books..
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That's why one should not take a book (any book) as if it's an idol..
yeh thats logical.. nothing should b idol including books, messenger, code or anything...
but yeh about quran that book is not of muhammad, its from God and yeh God authorised it ... thats really matter...
quran is a book of God to the whole humankind...
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quran is a book of God to the whole humankind...
i don't think so...
The Quran is so "Israelitic" and so "Semitic"....
Non Semites or those who are not exposed or familiar with Semitic cultural background will not find it either compelling or interesting or relevant.. Some good examples has been discussed on various thread on this forum..Yet it also doesn't matter...
The "writings of God" (metaphorically speaking) can be found on the entire universe around you..
And it cannot be forged by anyone... -
i don't think so...
The Quran is so "Israelitic" and so "Semitic"....
Non Semites or those who are not exposed or familiar with Semitic cultural background will not find it either compelling or interesting or relevant.. Some good examples has been discussed on various thread on this forum..Yet it also doesn't matter...
The "writings of God" (metaphorically speaking) can be found on the entire universe around you..
And it cannot be forged by anyone...the signs of God in methphorically/ physically/ literatureally found on entire universe.. but with the passage of time things get updated the things that human being use... specially..
so the updated version is in hand and it challanges its worth,, isralitic scripture although share the same approach but when comes to challange its quran that provide a channel of logical judgement...other scriptures failed to provide scientific or logical challanges even mathematics erros ... and contradictions... but with quran its not the case..
as far the threads and misconfusion regaridng quran its either human weak understanding or interpretation by some secterian agenda... but truth stands firm ...
but again if u have soomething to share with me let me know something which make me revise my understanding,, becoz in the start i also try to find a error in quran but every time i failed ,, may be some of ur points will help me finding the error or illogical fallacy..
peace
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Imran,
Besides that Quran is very primitive style in the sectarian interpretation which I find a huge contradiction. Many times it is incoherent jumping from topic to topic. There are cases where there is a clause within the passage which is misfit.
Nothing can be made of fire meaning it is scientifically incorrect. Fire is just a visual phenomenon of a heated object which is disintegrating.
The sectarian interpretation of Quran has multiple problems. The subjective impression of divine writing blinds people from being objective. Quran is coming from Rabb, but it needs to be read as it was intended by its author then too.
Quran is primarily intended to teach about Rabb as an instruction to someone who already knows the truth about Rabb. It contains many pedagogical tips and tricks.
Be well
Amenuel -
brother ammanuel forget about the interpretation of secterian or anybody else...
what we need to understand is the boook of God and the book of einstien(wordly books) there must b a difference in it ,
thats what logic and reason tell us.. about things like fire spirit blow of God these are mataphorical when the human understanding cannot percive through dialouge so the language take a word what we commonly know similie or methaphor to give us a cloing understanding...
let say i told you brother ammanue i see a garden nobody ever see it...
then you ask a question from me what you see there...?
i try to explain you in the communicating way what you easily understand so i make things similar with things what you see ..
now see my answer ,, i see there rivers are flowing in layers , first layer was of milk second was of water.. third layer was of honey...
you just understand water river becoz you already saw it.. you will disagree with me about milk and honey its not possible...
then you ask again what else you see...
i told you about the sound that was very melodious i cannot explain its music or what
so again i used similie i say i heard a glorious music now you understand a worldy music which already we listen but it was far away from music it was a enchanting sound ... only the one who experience can understand ...anyway treat quran like how it should be treated dnt run so fast my brother.. i also once try to find a error but more i investigate more i get to know how stupid i m , becoz i dnt even know lot of things how they work in this life law.. so i first need to learn these laws... and i m still learning ... learning not finish but i think my life will get finish one day and i will still be a student when death approaches me.. lol
peace
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You still cannot make an object out of fire, imran. Fire is not a substance. It is like I wrote the "visual effect" of a chemical process by the heat of disintegrating matter when it has turned unstable and had a reaction. It could be seen as being mere energy and the flame is the amount of heat signified by varying color of it depending on temperature. Yellow is quite cold in comparison. So actually fire is heat that has generated due to the reaction and as you know heat streams upwards just like the lit flame.
And what does the sectarian interpretation of Quran say? "Jinn" are made of fire. It is factually wrong as the world is not designed that way. Actually the world (the bodily = al-jinn) is made of energy/heat (root Nun-Waw-Ra in Arabic) and it is what Quran wishes to disclose among virtually worthless interpretations. Translation of Nun-Waw-Ra is wrong, the Jinn is made of energy/heat and marks the objects of this world. The body of ours is a jinn. Everyone here on Earth is (in) a jinn. Your neighbor is in a jinn.
Scientific advancements reveal that the above is true. Quantum physics has reached a kind of crossroads. They have discovered that marvelously the world seems innately to be constructed by a kind of "charged unknown entities/fragments".
You also cannot destroy energy, it just takes a different form. Same is true for atoms being burnt or manipulated by other means. They transform into something else. A burnt human turns into the carbon it is partially made of (to ashes). But fire cannot be turned into anything as it is not a substance to begin with.
If a matter started to disintegrate by reaching a certain amount of generated heat (usually called flammability) then such as oxygen fuels the disintegration. This phenomenon is quite marvelous. What is visible of this disintegration is CALLED fire. The heat takes a color when it dissipates from the burning object. Radiation/light, it all goes hand in hand and is marked by the Arabic root Nun-Waw-Ra. The phenomenon of the universal energy is called Nun-Waw-Ra and when in reaction it produces heat. It is even the friction between the matter itself (same substance) that generates heat. Enough friction and you get smoke. Rub your hands sufficiently against each other and they may turn red and it is due to the friction and generated heat. Your cells in the hands may eventually begin to die (by matter instability) due to this heat if you obsessive compulsively continue to rub your hands.
Hope you understand what I mean by this and see the contradiction in saying Jinn are made of fire and saying they are invisible beings.
First of all, were they against logic made of fire they would clearly be visible because as long as something is on fire it will show up and if it is not on fire it will cease to exist (if fire was a substance something could be composed of).
This is ancient superstition, imran. Similar kind of superstition as the Zoroastrians who always keep a live flame lit. God is everywhere no matter if you have a fire lit or not. Same is that angels are here no matter if you/they have a fire lit. Angels nor God are limited by the dynamics of this world and they are unbound to matter. Being made (controlled) of Nun-Waw-Ra is a trait of weakness, imran. What God has willed to show is that the world (symbolized by the bodily/jinn) is made of energy or heat depending on how to look at it. Satan is of the jinn because Satan is simply put our body's instinctive drive -)
Be well
Amenuel -
I will try to see if I can make it this saturday check your PM
I advice you to go on another day, every day except on Saturday since we should respect the Shabbath in light of the Torah.
Peace.
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Quick answer We don't know...
There isn't any statement of "I'm Muhammad, and I have thoroughly reviewed this document and declare it to be true as per my knowledge. It contains X sentences, Y words and Z letters"...
Most probably, if refering to the "Standard Islamic History" it wasn't written and authorized by Mohammad the prophet as it was compiled by a caliph long after Mohammad's death.
But does it really matter?
That's why one should not take a book (any book) as if it's an idol..
Does Tao The Ching that we have now written and authorized by Lao Tse?
The same answer We don't know..
And for the majority of it's readers, it doesn't really matter.. as they don't treat the book as idol or consider it as holy..The book of Gospels (especially Mark and Matthew) really INSPIRED me, it's opening up a new idea, a new point of view.. although it wasn't written and/or authorized by Jesus (and / or God).. And so does Book of Isaiah, Daniel and Jeremiah.. and many of other books..
You should really reconsider what you said.
If God authorised the Quran, and in the Quran we find that God also authorised the Gospel, and in the Gospel we find about Isaiah and Jeremiah..
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How?
Because we read a lot about Abraham? Noah? Adam? Umm, Moses, David, Jesus?
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Imran,
Besides that Quran is very primitive style in the sectarian interpretation which I find a huge contradiction. Many times it is incoherent jumping from topic to topic. There are cases where there is a clause within the passage which is misfit.
Nothing can be made of fire meaning it is scientifically incorrect. Fire is just a visual phenomenon of a heated object which is disintegrating.
The sectarian interpretation of Quran has multiple problems. The subjective impression of divine writing blinds people from being objective. Quran is coming from Rabb, but it needs to be read as it was intended by its author then too.
Quran is primarily intended to teach about Rabb as an instruction to someone who already knows the truth about Rabb. It contains many pedagogical tips and tricks.
Be well
AmenuelDon't forget about how the Israeli people saw how most of the Arab nations hated them openly.
But yet the Quran told us that the Torah and the Gospel contain guidance and light.
We read the Quran in it's light anyways if we also read the Torah, Psalms and Gospel.
The Problems start when we abandon the Torah, and start reading books like that of Bukhari, Ibn Madja, Tirmidhi etc.
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Don't forget about how the Israeli people saw how most of the Arab nations hated them openly.
But yet the Quran told us that the Torah and the Gospel contain guidance and light.
We read the Quran in it's light anyways if we also read the Torah, Psalms and Gospel.
The Problems start when we abandon the Torah, and start reading books like that of Bukhari, Ibn Madja, Tirmidhi etc.
Are you talking about th Balfour declaration or what are talking about.
You seem to wander thousands of years mixing eveyrthing up and of course blaminng tha Arabs. Always blame the Arabs, there you cannot be wrong.
And in what are many parts of the old testament any better than Bujari and why should the qur'an be passed through the sieve of the old Testament as if it wasn't clear enough or the old testament were any cleaarertha the Qur'an.
That is where a lot of hadith come from recisely from te old testament. Bukhari is notopposed to the old testament but abut the same.Plus ?a change plus c'est la m?me chose.
Salaam
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Are you talking about th Balfour declaration or what are talking about.
You seem to wander thousands of years mixing eveyrthing up and of course blaminng tha Arabs. Always blame the Arabs, there you cannot be wrong.
And in what are many parts of the old testament any better than Bujari and why should the qur'an be passed through the sieve of the old Testament as if it wasn't clear enough or the old testament were any cleaarertha the Qur'an.
That is where a lot of hadith come from recisely from te old testament. Bukhari is notopposed to the old testament but abut the same.Plus ?a change plus c'est la m?me chose.
Salaam
First of all, we should know our history.
Second, who did attack Israel with nearly all Arab nations and lost that war?
I didn't!
I am just speaking of a recent war, and not one thousand of years ago.
Anyways, i do not always blame the Arabs. That's not my point. I blame those that are against Israel.
We can't compare the Torah, Psalms and Gospel with the books written by people like Bukhari etc.
We should read the Quran some more. And we should stop denying Israel. Because Israel does have a history. The Tabernacle is a great example.
But heey, i am not going to discuss with you here on this thread since that is not the main-topic. You can always pm me if you would like to talk further about this..
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Palestine was occupied land y thhe britih empire nd the briih empire creatd there withut onsutinngthe populationn a National HomeforEurpean jews. It had noright too do that.and then jew rfgees from Erope ere by forced mde to g to Palestinne and dispossessed the native popation of allttheir rright and created arrtifiially a state forinmigrants to hte exclusionn of te ntive poopulation.
If yufind tht right I wish it ill be done to yo and yor eole see if you enjoy it.
Is tha wwhat Qur'ann saysto conquer annd coit genocide with the nnative populations annd apprpriate their ountries and states.
HYo do you dar eblme the victims. it is reuslive. The only criminals are origially the Europeans who threw their jewish ppulationns o or killed them. Nt the arbs, but when eole do not have the guts to fight the real ennemies they pick o te defenceless to destroy them annd difame them. It is repulsive and disgut?sting. If you do not have the guts to fight the oppresor, at leas do not attempto soil their name.
And least of all use revelatio to codoe such crimes You might as well shit on them.
Salaam
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Palestine was occupied land y thhe britih empire nd the briih empire creatd there withut onsutinngthe populationn a National HomeforEurpean jews. It had noright too do that.and then jew rfgees from Erope ere by forced mde to g to Palestinne and dispossessed the native popation of allttheir rright and created arrtifiially a state forinmigrants to hte exclusionn of te ntive poopulation.
If yufind tht right I wish it ill be done to yo and yor eole see if you enjoy it.
Is tha wwhat Qur'ann saysto conquer annd coit genocide with the nnative populations annd apprpriate their ountries and states.
HYo do you dar eblme the victims. it is reuslive. The only criminals are origially the Europeans who threw their jewish ppulationns o or killed them. Nt the arbs, but when eole do not have the guts to fight the real ennemies they pick o te defenceless to destroy them annd difame them. It is repulsive and disgut?sting. If you do not have the guts to fight the oppresor, at leas do not attempto soil their name.
And least of all use revelatio to codoe such crimes You might as well shit on them.
Salaam
Not entirely correct..
Here's a good, funny and unbiased crash course on the history of Israel Palestine conflict..
Conflict in Israel and Palestine Crash Course World
https//youtu.be/1wo2TLlMhiwPalestine was occupied land by the Israel / Palestine
before that British
before that Ottoman Empire
before that Rum Seljuk
before that Mongols
before that Arab Caliphates
before that Europe Christians
before that Arab Caliphates
before that Europe Christians again
before that Arabs again
(repeat this loop 3 or 4 more times)
before that Arab Caliphates again
before that Romans
before that Persians
before that Romans again
before that Greeks
before that Persians again
before that Syrians
before that Israilite (phew finally)
before that Phillistines (phew finally, Hey aren't they Arabs? even the word Arabs wasn't around back then)
before that Hittites (Aren't they Arabs???)
before that Egypts (Hey aren't they Arabs too???)
before that Hittites again
(Repeat the above loops about 2 times)
before that Babylonian
before that a bunch of nomadic people coming from Africa moving around..
before that the NEANDERTHAL..
(Repeat the above loops about 4 - 5 times) -
Palestine was occupied land y thhe britih empire nd the briih empire creatd there withut onsutinngthe populationn a National HomeforEurpean jews. It had noright too do that.and then jew rfgees from Erope ere by forced mde to g to Palestinne and dispossessed the native popation of allttheir rright and created arrtifiially a state forinmigrants to hte exclusionn of te ntive poopulation.
If yufind tht right I wish it ill be done to yo and yor eole see if you enjoy it.
Is tha wwhat Qur'ann saysto conquer annd coit genocide with the nnative populations annd apprpriate their ountries and states.
HYo do you dar eblme the victims. it is reuslive. The only criminals are origially the Europeans who threw their jewish ppulationns o or killed them. Nt the arbs, but when eole do not have the guts to fight the real ennemies they pick o te defenceless to destroy them annd difame them. It is repulsive and disgut?sting. If you do not have the guts to fight the oppresor, at leas do not attempto soil their name.
And least of all use revelatio to codoe such crimes You might as well shit on them.
Salaam
Have you read the Torah?
My wicked view and understand of Israel changed after reading the Quran and the Torah.
You have been warned.
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The Qur'an speks of the tawrat and the injil. I doubt tht wht is now extantt as the "torah" is not ncessarily what the qur'an seaks about, and in factif reading those make you hink tht right is wronng and wrong is right you better kee your torah for yourself, because it seemnot to be teaching you enither truth nor justice. And also you betternotmix the Qur'a inthat king of componenda.
As to tthe warning...nnot be funny, why don't you warn yourself? If you are sor eadily agreed on injustice you could do with little warning.
Also, yes I read the whole Bible, and for the Bible aplieas the same as for hadith. Some of it is good, even very good, and some of it is corrupting.
And it is lie to ry to say that what the bible contain the Qur'an enjoin, again some of it is good and agree with the Qur'an and some of it does ot and is completely against it.
Salaam
For the Bible aplieas the same as for hadith.
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The Qur'an speks of the tawrat and the injil. I doubt tht wht is now extantt as the "torah" is not ncessarily what the qur'an seaks about, and in factif reading those make you hink tht right is wronng and wrong is right you better kee your torah for yourself, because it seemnot to be teaching you enither truth nor justice. And also you betternotmix the Qur'a inthat king of componenda.
As to tthe warning...nnot be funny, why don't you warn yourself? If you are sor eadily agreed on injustice you could do with little warning.
Also, yes I read the whole Bible, and for the Bible aplieas the same as for hadith. Some of it is good, even very good, and some of it is corrupting.
And it is lie to ry to say that what the bible contain the Qur'an enjoin, again some of it is good and agree with the Qur'an and some of it does ot and is completely against it.
Salaam
For the Bible aplieas the same as for hadith.
568 Say "O people of the Book, you are not upon anything until you uphold the Torah and the Gospel and what was sent down to you from your Lord." And for many of them, what was sent down to you from your Lord will only increase them in transgression and rejection. So do not feel sorry for the rejecting people.
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568 Say "O people of the Book, you are not upon anything until you uphold the Torah and the Gospel and what was sent down to you from your Lord." And for many of them, what was sent down to you from your Lord will only increase them in transgression and rejection. So do not feel sorry for the rejecting people.
Again
"The Qur'an speks of the tawrat and the injil. I doubt tht what is now extantt as the "torah" is ncessarily what the qur'an seaks about,..."
Of course, evybody is free to gamble on it. Certain it is not.