Al-Kahf, The Cave Dwellers, The Story Of Persecution
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The story of cave dwellers doesn't really give any 'meaningful story' if it's not examined with the larger political / situational context. I found a good documentary regarding the Roman Empire during that time, which can explains the context.
THE ROMAN EMPIRE - THE END OF THE PAX ROMANA
https//youtu.be/BSaayCKM_ZIFor those who are impatient, you can skip to minutes 25, but I do recommend to watch the entire thing as it gives a good lesson on historical context.
The "cave dwellers" event was happening during the Roman Empire rule, it happened in Ephesus, today's Modern Turkey / Anatolia.
- The Roman Empire was Decius
- He's a "traditional" man, before becoming an Emperor, he was a military general.
- He sees that all the problems that the Roman faced was caused by the "negligence" of Traditional Roman Gods. Basically the Gods were angry at them.
- His predecessor Phillips The Arabs, was lenient and tolerant Emperor, during his reign all form of traditions and religions exist throughout the empire, and discussion / debate among them were encouraged and held by Phillips.
- Due to Phillips tolerant and open attitude, Christianity was quickly widespread throughout the Roman Empire.
- This triggered Decius to perform a military Coup D'Etat against Phillips, killed him and declare himself as the new Roman Emperor.
- Once in power, Decius enacted policies to ensure obedience to Roman Gods thus preserving the "Roman Traditional Values".
- All citizens of Roman Empire need to perform mandatory sacrifice to Roman Gods, those who refused to do so shall face death penalty.
- The logic behind the move was, once the Commandment of the Gods (a.k.a Gods Law) was observed, Gods will be happy and all the problems that Roman faced shall goes away.
- The above logic also serves as the justification of the death penalties, as those who refused to do so can be seen as "enemy of the Gods" and justified to be killed. (Blood halal to be shed)
- A specific group among the citizen of Roman Empire, let's name them the Christians have problems of performing sacrifice to the Roman Gods. Because according to their belief, the Roman Gods are demons.
- They either openly refused to do so (and killed), some others bribed their way out, some others performed the sacrifice as mandated by Decius.
- Decius routinely travel around the empire to ensure that his policy are being enforced.
- In Ephesus, he faced a group of men who refused to perform sacrifice to Roman Gods, he ordered them to be buried inside the cave forever. (a.k.a The Cave Dwellers story)
- After such horrible policy and turmoil, instead of receiving blessings from the Gods, a terrible plague spread throughout the empire, killing many citizens.
- Decius insisted that even the plague was caused because of "The Law of the Gods" were not properly observed, he further enforced his mandatory sacrifice policies and also blamed the plague to the Christians (who refused to performed the sacrifice) which worsens the persecution towards them.
- The internal conflicts and plague makes Roman Empire weaker than it was before.
- The Goths moved in to invade.
- Decius faced his death while fighting the invasion from the Goths.
It's not clear during which era the "Cave Dwellers" finally walked out from the cave and still alive..
But most probably it was during the era of "Constantine" ( 306 AD ), or 150 years after Decius, the first Roman emperor who are sympathetic to the Christians and the first Roman Emperor who are baptized to be Christians. -
The story of cave dwellers doesn't really give any 'meaningful story' if it's not examined with the larger political / situational context. I found a good documentary regarding the Roman Empire during that time, which can explains the context.
THE ROMAN EMPIRE - THE END OF THE PAX ROMANA
https//youtu.be/BSaayCKM_ZIFor those who are impatient, you can skip to minutes 25, but I do recommend to watch the entire thing as it gives a good lesson on historical context.
The "cave dwellers" event was happening during the Roman Empire rule, it happened in Ephesus, today's Modern Turkey / Anatolia.
- The Roman Empire was Decius
- He's a "traditional" man, before becoming an Emperor, he was a military general.
- He sees that all the problems that the Roman faced was caused by the "negligence" of Traditional Roman Gods. Basically the Gods were angry at them.
- His predecessor Phillips The Arabs, was lenient and tolerant Emperor, during his reign all form of traditions and religions exist throughout the empire, and discussion / debate among them were encouraged and held by Phillips.
- Due to Phillips tolerant and open attitude, Christianity was quickly widespread throughout the Roman Empire.
- This triggered Decius to perform a military Coup D'Etat against Phillips, killed him and declare himself as the new Roman Emperor.
- Once in power, Decius enacted policies to ensure obedience to Roman Gods thus preserving the "Roman Traditional Values".
- All citizens of Roman Empire need to perform mandatory sacrifice to Roman Gods, those who refused to do so shall face death penalty.
- The logic behind the move was, once the Commandment of the Gods (a.k.a Gods Law) was observed, Gods will be happy and all the problems that Roman faced shall goes away.
- The above logic also serves as the justification of the death penalties, as those who refused to do so can be seen as "enemy of the Gods" and justified to be killed. (Blood halal to be shed)
- A specific group among the citizen of Roman Empire, let's name them the Christians have problems of performing sacrifice to the Roman Gods. Because according to their belief, the Roman Gods are demons.
- They either openly refused to do so (and killed), some others bribed their way out, some others performed the sacrifice as mandated by Decius.
- Decius routinely travel around the empire to ensure that his policy are being enforced.
- In Ephesus, he faced a group of men who refused to perform sacrifice to Roman Gods, he ordered them to be buried inside the cave forever. (a.k.a The Cave Dwellers story)
- After such horrible policy and turmoil, instead of receiving blessings from the Gods, a terrible plague spread throughout the empire, killing many citizens.
- Decius insisted that even the plague was caused because of "The Law of the Gods" were not properly observed, he further enforced his mandatory sacrifice policies and also blamed the plague to the Christians (who refused to performed the sacrifice) which worsens the persecution towards them.
- The internal conflicts and plague makes Roman Empire weaker than it was before.
- The Goths moved in to invade.
- Decius faced his death while fighting the invasion from the Goths.
It's not clear during which era the "Cave Dwellers" finally walked out from the cave and still alive..
But most probably it was during the era of "Constantine" ( 306 AD ), or 150 years after Decius, the first Roman emperor who are sympathetic to the Christians and the first Roman Emperor who are baptized to be Christians.During the Ministry of the Last Prophet of ALLAH and the reign of Decius.
So, it had been prophesied by the Almighty that the Bible will be distorted. Another most significant proof that the Quran was sent down in the 3th Century CE, is the story about the Sleepers of the Cave. This Glorious Quranic verse is a prophecy and a Quranic evidence.
AQ 1822 - They will say there were three, the fourth of them being their dog; and they will say there were five, the sixth of them being their dog - guessing at the unseen; and they will say there were seven, and the eighth of them was their dog. Say, , "My Lord is most knowing of their number. None knows them except a few.So do not argue about them except with an obvious argument and do not inquire about them among from anyone."
Study the tenses carefully and you will find that the sentence is in Future/Present Tense. None knows them except a few. Historical evidence from the earliest Christian version of this story comes from the Syrian bishop, Jacob of Sarugh (c. 450-521), in the 6th-century.
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During the Ministry of the Last Prophet of ALLAH and the reign of Decius.
How do you prove "last"?
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Salam,
wouldn?t it be suspicious for the cavedweller to go with a coin in to the city on which is another ruler depicted as the one who is in charge?after that one can ,safety instruction how he should behave in the city but with that old coins ? thats not easy.
or it is another location; seven saints are also to be found in western cultures .
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@Amin
that also came to mind but then further in the Story it goes on with People founding them and build a house over them .there is chapelle in france which is connected with the dwellers of the cave it is visited by christians and muslims as well, in the summertime.
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It might be total fiction and merely folktale..
But that's not the point, the point was PERSECUTION.
-Do not persecute people based on anything.
-Do not let your hatred towards certain group of people prevent you from being just. (a.k.a Bias Judgement)thanks,i agree jafar to your points
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It might be total fiction and merely folktale..
But that's not the point, the point was PERSECUTION.
-Do not persecute people based on anything.
-Do not let your hatred towards certain group of people prevent you from being just. (a.k.a Bias Judgement)Yes Jaffar, when cultural practices that become meaningless due to time and change of environment and being forced upon people, people at large shift gradually to a new religion/culture with spread of messages brought by one or more enlightened people among the group. Jewism, Christianity, Islam and other Indian religions the stories tell how their groups were being prosecuted by the other predominant group and their own Gods or prophets destroyed/overcome the other to bring in goodness and their festivities revolve around these. Those stories could be fictious or exaggerated with time.
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whenever a human being is controlled by a THING/TOOL ..
whenever a human being is forced to do something ..
whenever a human being is challenged...
whenever a human being is degrade...possible outcomes.. he will try to take revenge or try to make his position visible on the matter...
things get more complicated when religious authorities come in action..
example just a simple ignorance case...
a women/man is beaten in public hundred lashes.. (law of God).what he/she feels i m not talking about either they proved zani or not... but what this punishment results will be specially for the victims...
victims get close to eachother becoz the truth of life is a production of sex... they were doing the same thing what was installed in the system... system maker installed a fault in human and then himslef decide a punishment of that fault.. this will leave that victim feel unfair about everything...
example NOKIA 8310 was a faulty handset.. whoever got that got a signal dropping technical issue in it..
customers suffered from loss, who is to punish the handset or the maufacturer?we are faulty we know it.. but we are also responsible for the fault we have ... CURSE to creation..
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@ jaffar
ur points are valid i watched a similar video ages ago about maximillion a powerful figure who go against the most powerful man of times and the. other people start following him.its a limit to everything also that limit apply to human nature although fear of death is there but at one point not that fear even work and thats the time when human being called rebellious according to society when he dnt care about death these brave people usually turns out as HEROS of present but villians( as per society) of past abraham is one example.
these cave stories and all other stories are all versions of telling kids wrong and right and to make them prepare for next stories
i watched a movie ?buntaku? ages ago in which a mysterious bartender comes in bad town ruled by a fella called nicola the woodcutter most poweful man east of the atlantic eveybody was in fear from that boss and his gang and that mysterious staranger scrath theor empire out and in the end wiodcutter asked him whois he and he told him you killed my father once and i m his son who told you to remember one thing ? there is always somebody more poweful than you? so he turns out as hero people said him ur father was legend once , basically that woodcutter killed people bu cheating and even he cheated again but this time his time was over ?
there are lot if heros and lot of villians everytime and we see heroes always have an upper side tbh they themsleves can afford it but they do it for yhe sake of people to make them understand the truth so thats y they called hero
even in forum we have some heros like jaffar jk bro
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last week i saw movie magnificent SEVEN , i think they get that idea from cave sleepers lol
the author of Quran never mention it was 7 or any amount... so just dnt know why u r curious to find locations having "7" in it..?
oh yeh 7 is imp number...
7 wonders
7 seas/oceans
7 days a week
etc@ brother jjaffar that link no longer availiable can u plz find the alternate link and send it to me thanks...
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Yes, the 7 is found in different fields and area,well if the quran said theres is a building build over them after People found them ,this Building had to be Standing till today .
BOLD interesting to know
may b conqurer like halaku khan destroyed that building
same like he destroyed a fake paradise created by people of tallaqan(iran).
with the help of that paradise they use to kill the prominent figures of society and the HITMAN enjoys a week in that paradise as a reward. rotfl -
I would like to discuss with you if you bring something
up wich deals with the subject some .
This Kind of conquerer is found around the globe.
otherwise as it it is written in the kahf Story one should
discuss with each other on the Facts.
And as there are very few of them as it seems so.
So don?t mind if i end the discussing with you About the
cave dwellers and a different Location.
have a nice day and joy,peacesalam be with you
P.s.i wanted to write sumthing About there guard.
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Here's the new link to the video
https//youtu.be/rxalPmS0pJwThe Synopsis Mid 3rd Century
Roman society was in trouble, drought, famine, foreign raid / invasion.
A religious (we now calls it "Right Wing" emperor grab power, his name is Decius.
Decius claimed that all of the trouble was caused by grievous sins of Roman society.
The sins was because the Romans has forsaken their religion.
The Roman Gods thus gets angry and cause all of the above trouble to the society.The solution is for all Romans to repent and start honoring the religion and the gods.
Decius thus enforce strict measures to enforce Roman religion to all populace within his empire.
Among those are a minority named "Christians".
The Christians refused to honor Roman gods or perform Roman religion rituals as they think that those gods are actually "the evil ones" / "false gods".
Decius thus sees the christians as among the cause for the wrath of the gods to the empire.
Decius issues an order to persecute (torture / murder) the christians who refused to convert and/or pay honor to the gods.A Roman version of "Inquisition" (ironically) performed by Christians many centuries later...
Giving a political background for the story / legend of the Cave Dwellers...
@ jaffar
ur points are valid i watched a similar video ages ago about maximillion a powerful figure who go against the most powerful man of times and the. other people start following him.its a limit to everything also that limit apply to human nature although fear of death is there but at one point not that fear even work and thats the time when human being called rebellious according to society when he dnt care about death these brave people usually turns out as HEROS of present but villians( as per society) of past abraham is one example.
The Christians during Decius era is also among the example...
Dogmatism does relies on FEAR.
Without it the dogma will never succeed as it actually doesn't make sense at all.these cave stories and all other stories are all versions of telling kids wrong and right and to make them prepare for next stories
there are lot if heros and lot of villians everytime and we see heroes always have an upper side tbh they themsleves can afford it but they do it for yhe sake of people to make them understand the truth so thats y they called hero
even in forum we have some heros like jaffar jk bro
As narrated above, the hero (Christians) does turn to become villain once they grabbed power many centuries later..
Power tends to corrupt and absolute power will corrupt absolutely.
And absolute faith corrupts as absolutely as absolute power.And no I'm not a hero, but you or anybody else can if you dare to face the risk due to siding with your own conscience.