Joining the US Army/AirForce
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Don't be a fool camando, don't buy that propaganda insurgent crap. They are called freedom fighters and they are making me very proud to be called a MUSLIM. The american army is the real evil doer remember Abu Ghuraib! Join the freedom fighters if you seek a military style life where you have an opinion and you fight for GOD. Face it man america is evil now it's in the hands of the dark side (bush and his stooges). Bottom line capatalism is evil. Just remember who the true heros are and follow in there footsteps, i.e. Che Guevara, 2 Pac Shakur, Omar Al Mokhtar, Malcom X, Martin Luther King, etc.
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Today I was truly shocked when i was informed from my close friend that he is joining US army and he is considering himself doing a right thing!
he said to me that he truly believes US are most rightful!? and he find it a good way to earn living!!?? he is justifying the killing of innocent by saying that US bring more good to the world than evil???!!! -
I rethought the whole idea and put it down the toilet. Joining the US Army means being another tool in Bush's agenda for world domination.
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Peace brothers Zlatan and Commando_X,
Today I was truly shocked when i was informed from my close friend that he is joining US army and he is considering himself doing a right thing!
he said to me that he truly believes US are most rightful!? and he find it a good way to earn living!!?? he is justifying the killing of innocent by saying that US bring more good to the world than evil???!!!Your friend is joining for the sake of getting a job with decent pay, benefits, signing bonuses, etc. If he was joining for the sake of "righteousness" or "patriotism" then tell him to go for it but donate his salary and benefits to pay-off the national debt. I doubt that he would because it is not about "righteousness" but it is more likely to be about the inability to get a decent job elsewhere and about making money. That's the difference between a volunteer and a mercenary.
Peace and all best wishes,
Ayman
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Peace brothers Zlatan and Commando_X,
Today I was truly shocked when i was informed from my close friend that he is joining US army and he is considering himself doing a right thing!
he said to me that he truly believes US are most rightful!? and he find it a good way to earn living!!?? he is justifying the killing of innocent by saying that US bring more good to the world than evil???!!!Your friend is joining for the sake of getting a job with decent pay, benefits, signing bonuses, etc. If he was joining for the sake of "righteousness" or "patriotism" then tell him to go for it but donate his salary and benefits to pay-off the national debt. I doubt that he would because it is not about "righteousness" but it is more likely to be about the inability to get a decent job elsewhere and about making money. That's the difference between a volunteer and a mercenary.
Peace and all best wishes,
Ayman
Peace ayman,
Commando i congratulate on your decision!
Ayman, how US are paying their army? is it the money of/from tax-payers or they borrowed the money from other country or from the banks, or they simply stamp the money as they needed it?
As far as i know US have no gold basis for each and every of the dollars they stamp/produce ? however i dont know if this gold standard is applied anywhere in the world...
ayman, tell me also about the verse 4825, how do you translate it and do you think if it has anything to do with ocassional(
unnintentionalas a side efect of for example bombing) killing of innnocent?FM translation goes
They are the ones who rejected and barred you from the Restricted Temple, and barred your donations from reaching their destination. And there had been believing men and women whom you did not know, and you may have hurt them, and on whose account you would have committed a sin unknowingly. God will admit into His mercy whomever He wills. Had they become separated, We would then have punished those of them who rejected with a painful retribution.
best wishes, Zlatan
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Don't be a fool camando, don't buy that propaganda insurgent crap. They are called freedom fighters and they are making me very proud to be called a MUSLIM. The american army is the real evil doer remember Abu Ghuraib! Join the freedom fighters if you seek a military style life where you have an opinion and you fight for GOD. Face it man america is evil now it's in the hands of the dark side (bush and his stooges). Bottom line capatalism is evil. Just remember who the true heros are and follow in there footsteps, i.e. Che Guevara, 2 Pac Shakur, Omar Al Mokhtar, Malcom X, Martin Luther King, etc.
I love 2Pac & his music and thoughts as well as Malcolm X. R.I.P to all those who promoted peace and stood up for their right to freedom to promote goodness in this world.
PEACE
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Yo what up Pac? Finnaly i found someone who loves 2Pac as much as i do and can actually understand the message he lived and died for. What drives me crazy is that some people just don't understand his message and don't even want to bother because they call him a "Thug" and all that if you know what i mean. I love 2Pac and his message. It was all about standing up for yourself against oppression. I would love to discuss his message with you sometime.
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Peace brother Zlatan,
Ayman, how US are paying their army? is it the money of/from tax-payers or they borrowed the money from other country or from the banks, or they simply stamp the money as they needed it?
As far as i know US have no gold basis for each and every of the dollars they stamp/produce ? however i dont know if this gold standard is applied anywhere in the world...
Brother, the following is the definition of Petrodollars
http//www.georgetown.edu/faculty/oweissi/petrod/define.htm
The following is an example of an article discussing the economic issues and that was originally written before the Iraq war
http//www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/RRiraqWar.html
The following is an article by the US military that attempts to discredit the above article
http//www.ccc.nps.navy.mil/si/nov03/middleEast.asp
If you read between the lines, you will see that it actually doesn't.
ayman, tell me also about the verse 4825, how do you translate it and do you think if it has anything to do with ocassional(
unnintentionalas a side efect of for example bombing) killing of innnocent?FM translation goes
They are the ones who rejected and barred you from the Restricted Temple, and barred your donations from reaching their destination. And there had been believing men and women whom you did not know, and you may have hurt them, and on whose account you would have committed a sin unknowingly. God will admit into His mercy whomever He wills. Had they become separated, We would then have punished those of them who rejected with a painful retribution.
I would translate it as follows
- They are the ones who rejected and barred you from the institution of hearing and obeying the restriction (barred you from government), and the gifts/goods blocked (trade embargo) from reaching their destination. And had there not been faithful men and women whom you did not know, and you may have hurt them, and on whose account you would have committed a sin unknowingly. The God admits into His mercy whomever He wills. Had they become separated, We would then have punished those of them who rejected with a painful retribution.
Peace and all best wishes,
Ayman
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Peace Ayman
- They are the ones who rejected and barred you from the institution of hearing and obeying the restriction (barred you from government), and the gifts/goods blocked (trade embargo) from reaching their destination. And had there not been faithful men and women whom you did not know, and you may have hurt them, and on whose account you would have committed a sin unknowingly. The God admits into His mercy whomever He wills. Had they become separated, We would then have punished those of them who rejected with a painful retribution.
Ayman, thanks very much for the links and for the translation....but tell me what do you think, having this verse in mind together with 4824(the god has prevented your hands from them) does this all mean that the faithfull have intentionally stoped the military action eventhough they have almost won the battle from the fear that they might kill some inoccent and believeing people?
Peace and all best wishes, Zlatan
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Yo what up Pac? Finnaly i found someone who loves 2Pac as much as i do and can actually understand the message he lived and died for. What drives me crazy is that some people just don't understand his message and don't even want to bother because they call him a "Thug" and all that if you know what i mean. I love 2Pac and his message. It was all about standing up for yourself against oppression. I would love to discuss his message with you sometime.
PEACE
Likewise brother glad to meet someone who into Pac as much as me. Yeh many people are quick to judge superstars negatively but Pac replied intuitively with his track called ONLY GOD CAN JUDGE ME, it was very well said by the brother in reply to all the haters out there. Everyone sins and no ones perfect but Pac's message was strong and is still being used and appreciated by many.
PM me or something or we can always make a separate thread here possibly in the TRASH section as thats where it will be moved anyway and post lyrics from his positive tracks/poetry or something and discuss them in there.
PEACE
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Brother, the following is the definition of Petrodollars
http//www.georgetown.edu/faculty/oweissi/petrod/define.htm
The following is an example of an article discussing the economic issues and that was originally written before the Iraq war
http//www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/RRiraqWar.html
The following is an article by the US military that attempts to discredit the above article
http//www.ccc.nps.navy.mil/si/nov03/middleEast.asp
If you read between the lines, you will see that it actually doesn't.
Ayman i have finished reading of these revealing articles and have enriched my knowledge and perspective abundantly...is there any recomanded reading on the topic?
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THERE ARE A LOT OF EXTERMIST SUNNIS OUT THERE WHO ARE SCUMS OF THE EARTH. AMERICA ZINDAABAAD. AMERICA ZINDAABAAD. AMERICA ZINDAABAAD. AMERICA ZINDAABAAD. AMERICA ZINDAABAAD. AMERICA ZINDAABAAD. AMERICA ZINDAABAAD. AMERICA ZINDAABAAD. AMERICA ZINDAABAAD. AMERICA ZINDAABAAD. AMERICA ZINDAABAAD. AMERICA ZINDAABAAD. AMERICA ZINDAABAAD. AMERICA ZINDAABAAD. AMERICA ZINDAABAAD. AMERICA ZINDAABAAD. AMERICA ZINDAABAAD. AMERICA ZINDAABAAD. AMERICA ZINDAABAAD. AMERICA ZINDAABAAD. AMERICA ZINDAABAAD. AMERICA ZINDAABAAD. AMERICA ZINDAABAAD. AMERICA ZINDAABAAD. AMERICA ZINDAABAAD. AMERICA ZINDAABAAD. AMERICA ZINDAABAAD. AMERICA ZINDAABAAD. AMERICA ZINDAABAAD. AMERICA ZINDAABAAD. AMERICA ZINDAABAAD. AMERICA ZINDAABAAD. AMERICA ZINDAABAAD. AMERICA ZINDAABAAD. AMERICA ZINDAABAAD. AMERICA ZINDAABAAD. AMERICA ZINDAABAAD. AMERICA ZINDAABAAD. AMERICA ZINDAABAAD. AMERICA ZINDAABAAD. AMERICA ZINDAABAAD. AMERICA ZINDAABAAD. AMERICA ZINDAABAAD. AMERICA ZINDAABAAD. AMERICA ZINDAABAAD. AMERICA ZINDAABAAD. AMERICA ZINDAABAAD.
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Greetings and peace, all group
Wow, WAY old topic. Still, I'd like to comment, for the benefit of any who might read.
I came to Islam while serving in the United States Army National Guard. Haters gonna hate. O0
I joined the military so that I might help others in emergencies (tornados, floods, earthquakes, etc), and also help when called upon for national defense. In all countries, there is a need for a military. If you don't like the United States, don't live here--but don't get butthurt that others DO live here, DO like it and DO serve in the military. In fact, there are thousands of muslims in the United States armed forces.
By being in the military, muslims not only serve the public good (help others), but also make sure that abuses do not take place. Muslim servicemembers demonstrate that muslims are loyal to their country and their faith--and can even invite others to monotheism (when asked about Islam). My experience has been overall positive, and I've done nothing that jeopardizes my faith. United States military does NOT equal aggression.
Not all servicemembers carry weapons. Chaplains don't--and muslim chaplains are in high demand. Medical personnel usually carry only sidearms for personal protection--much as I do in the civilian world. There are also State Defense Forces (SDF) that don't carry weapons (and don't deploy).
There is a Peace Corps that does go overseas but doesn't carry weapons. There are a wide variety of charities and organizations that a person can join to help others. Doctors Without Borders, Red Crescent, etc etc.
For those who say that muslims shouldn't join the military, I ask you to ask yourselves "What am I doing to help others?" If you aren't doing anything for other people, now is a great time to start! By dissuading others from joining the military, you could be preventing them from helping others. If you aren't doing anything at all, you strongly resemble a hypocrite. ignore
There are certain realities to the military. In the United States, an enlistment is eight years--it might only be one year active duty--but you are subject to recall and deployment for the next seven. I'd say that you can count on being deployed if you join. You'll have other servicemembers fear you and treat you differently because you are muslim--but many opinions will change as you set a good example. You will be well trained, well equipped, and well paid with good benefits. You'll also be challenged, be misunderstood, and face hardships. It isn't for everybody, but it is of great benefit to many.
If you are a good person, you will probably be a good servicemember. If you are a bad person--please don't join any of the uniformed services!
PM's invited!
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
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I was wondering, are we allowed to join the military of a non-muslim nation? I live in the US and I really want to go into the Air Force after college but I don't know if its Islamically OK to join a military that you know will be against certain Muslim nations. Any input on this subject? BTW, I am seriously considering it.
Salaam alaikum.
Its like joining the the forces of Firawn/Pharaoh.
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If you are a good person, you will probably be a good servicemember. If you are a bad person--please don't join any of the uniformed services!
Even if you are a good person and do your job well, you are still participating in and actively supporting an organization which kills, maims and oppresses the innocent on a daily basis. Even if you personally don't shoot at others, you are helping others do the actual shooting, no matter what your job within the armed forces happens to be. By making yourself subject to the chain of command you are shirking your moral responsibility for your actions. If the president tells his generals who tell their colonels who tell their captains who tell you to go kill somebody, will you do it? What if you participated in killing a believer? Do you think God will forgive you your trespasses on judgement day because you were only following orders handed down by people who outranked you?
I'm not being "butthurt" here, but if you don't see the disconnect between serving God and willfully serving in the U.S. military I don't know what to tell you. Jingoism aside, what are your arguments for actually making the world a better place by your choice of employer? Any good the U.S. military has ever done must be viewed in relation to the bad things it as done.
I'm not a pacifist. I recognize there are situations where righteous people are allowed and have a duty to defend themselves violently against unjust attackers. Being a volontary stooge for empire has nothing to do with such a struggle, but rather leads to the kind of oppression that might necessitate it. You are on the wrong side of history, brother. Your side has all the money to buy all those cool toys, but it's still a force used for oppression, and you are supporting it. No matter what training, money and benefits they give you for your participation it seems like a devil's bargain to me.
Peace peace
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For those who say that muslims shouldn't join the military, I ask you to ask yourselves "What am I doing to help others?" If you aren't doing anything for other people, now is a great time to start! By dissuading others from joining the military, you could be preventing them from helping others. If you aren't doing anything at all, you strongly resemble a hypocrite. ignore
~Abdul-HadiPeace Abdul
From one former soldier to another, salute.
Many of us who join the military in peacetime do it for just that what you say, to help and service others. Not many people realize that for one soldier holding a rifle there are ten not holding one. Not many people realize that most soldiers are pacifists, they hate war. The war lovers are hopefully filtered out in the interviews before joining.
You happen to have been a soldier in a military many people blame for a lot of bad things in the world. Some are justified, some not. The unjustified is the US military being potraited as a mean and oppressing military. Both you and me know that war is not pretty, and it doesnt matter who is in charge or who is doing the fighting or for what reason, it doesnt change. The civilians will always be the victims. Not ever in the history of mankind has it been different. The side with the upper hand will always be seen as the oppressor, which is the reality of the situation and true. In a fight the strongest will win, and he will do so by oppressing his enemy.
The justified blame is the somehow sketchy reasons for the US reason for war in the first place. WMD ring any bell?I think it is absolutely necessary for you as muslim to be a US soldier. Why? Well we need to face the reality of the situation. First, the US has declared war on terrorism. Second, the john doe of the world cannot or has difficulty to differentiate between islam and terrorism. Third, John Doe is in the military. Who is the one to teach him the difference between terrorism and Islam? Yeah sure we can leave it up to our "responsible" leaders to do that, but I would rather myself, as a muslim, teach him about me. You are the ambassador of Islam. You must stand up and teach, if necesary rectify your brothers in arms if there is any hint, even the tiniest one, that the US war on terrorism is misinterpreted as war on Islam. You know what I am talking about, brother. It is so easy for a soldier to start fighting for the wrong cause. A soldier is trained to obey order and he will not think too long and hard of the reasons for fighting. After all, whatever his closest in command thinks, so will he. The soldier is the one holding the rifle. He is the one who has the power. He is the one that needs to know that killing another person is not OK because of religion. You must show them that whatever the political or military leaders say (or not say), the muslim man or woman is not the enemy. Right now muslims are more than ever needed in the US military. They must see to it that the US war on terrorism is never to become religious. We leave that to the other side.
That being said, I agree with Magnus on a theological level. If you willingly participate in the oppression of another person for the wrong reasons you are going against the law of Allah.
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Here is my two cents
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If you kill a human being (take a life) be sure that it is justified because if not on the day of judgment his blood will be on your hands
(i.e. If you murdered an innocent person you will be guilty of murder) -
In the Western Military There Is no Questions and Answers. There are Orders and Commands.
If you are Ordered to take out an "enemy" force, and you feel that the force many not really be an enemy...and perhaps may be an innocent person,
There is no arguing back to the authorities. Its plain and simple Follow your Orders and Commands.
In Islam you do not kill someone is accused of being a criminal. There are Fair Trials and Rules of Engagement/treatment.
In Western War there is no Trial, Hearing, or questioning, again there is simply Following Orders.If you are content with Following Orders and Commands and unconditionally-submitting to Human Authority, and are content with having innocent blood on your hands on the day of judgment...then by all means do what you feel is right.
In my humble opinion, You should not kill or risk killing innocent people so Walmart, McDonnalds, and other corporations can have more global dominance.
oh and by the way.... I am sure it sucks fighting in a war against "Enemies" who have been sold weapons by the same manufacture that provided you with weapons. nope -
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Salam,
If I may add my views on this...
By simply living in the US or being a US citizen, people are sbject to an income/sales "tax" which is the money that fuels the government and by extension the massive war machine that is the US military. Threfore, I see that the objection about joining the military if you are in the US is irrelevant on moral grounds since your tax dollars are already at work right now bombing some poor villigers somewhere and then calling them "AlQaeda".
Rather, the question for Muslims in the US should be a) can I emigrate to a land where I will not be participating in wrongdoings, b) can I remain where I am and "minimize" my contribution to the government and war machine, c) can I remain and contribute to the government an its war machine, because I have a bigger influence/ability in spreading the message of monotheism and God alone if I stay rather than leave.
