Do you really believe in the literal understanding of hell?

Jafar

'On another note, does anyone know the root of Jahannam?

Two webpages here and here say the root is jeem haa meem. But Qur'an Corpus doesn't list it.

Maybe we can start by looking at the root. "

I have read that that the word "jahannam" comes from the word "gehenna"

https//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gehenna

Thanks, your finding is interesting...

For the children of Judah have done evil in my sight, saith YHVH they have set their abominations in the house which is called by my name, to pollute it. And they have built the high places of Tophet, which is in the valley of Hinnom (Gehinnom), to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my heart.
-- Jeremiah 730-31

Books in the Tanakh never mentioned "Hell" / "Jahannam" or any of such places of 'fire' and 'torture'..
It was mentioned first in the Gospel (Matt, Mark, Luke) and then appears in great length in the Quran..

And based on the above, it seems YVHV Himself condemned the practices of human burning (Human Sacrifice Ritual) as performed by the sons of Judah (Judah Tribe), in which according to Jeremiah was performed in the valley of Hinnoom (Gehinnom) during his lifetime.

YHVH even added that "It never came into my heart"...

Yet on the Quran (and also Gospel) the supposedly the same God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob which is now named Allah (or "The Father" in the Gospel) threatened that He will torture human in a place full of fire named "Gehenna" or "Jahannam"..

YHVH definite have my vote on the matter...
I agree with Him that burning and torturing human (let alone for all eternity) is the most hideous evil deed indeed....

PS It strengthen my current hypothesis that the Quran was written and/or authored by a "Jewish Christian"..

janet

Salaam Jafar,

I find your answer interesting as well. Another interesting thought is that the fire of hell "an-naar" which apparently burns and roasts mankind comes from the same root as "noor" which leads mankind to heaven. Two sides of the same coin perhaps.

Regards,
Janet.

Aladin_from_Azra_tribe

The Jews know well for en-nar

280 and 324.

Allah's bless and selam.

Man_of_Faith

I would love to give my input, but I am giving too controversial input for this forum.

Be well
Amenuel

Cerberus

all these creatures of God using wikipedia to figure out the "true" meaning of Jehennom when their mother have taught them how to tie their shoes.

janet

Salaam to all,

The ayats referring to the places/states of being which are called heaven and hell seem to always use the words "a-b-d" and "kh-l-d" to describe the people in them. Examples are many 225, 239, 281, 282, 2217, 3107, 3116, 580, 736, 922, 9100, 972, 183 ....

Alif-Ba-Dal = he remained/stayed, abode, dwelt constantly/permanently, to render perpetual, time (in an absolute sense), long time, endless/eternal/forever, unlimited/indivisible, lasting/everlasting, unsocial/unfamiliar, never (when used in negative construction).

kuld) to remain or last ( kalada u
forever, be everlasting; to be immortal, deathless, undying; to abide forever ( or or or ( in, with); to remain, stay ;to rest, relax )at a place to lie down to sleep II to make eternal or everlasting, perpetuate, eternalize ( s.th.), make immortal, immortalize ( s.o.); to make ineffaceable, unforgettable ( s.th.; a ( memory); to remain, stay, abide, linger at, in a place); to grow very old, enjoy a long life, be long-lived IV to eternize, ,.s.o ( immortalize, make immortal s.th.); to perpetuate ( s.th.); to remain, stay, abide, linger ( or at, in a place)
( to be disposed, incline, lean, tend 253 to) V to become eternal or immortal, perpetuate o.s. j to be or become long, lasting, perpetual.

.see the next paragraph, in two places .made by God to continue for ever in such a state (A) a man who is not hoary when advanced in age (ISk, S) whose hair of his head and beard remains black in old age. (T.)
Also (assumed tropical) Still; motionless. (TA in art. .( see the paragraph next receding.
in the Kur means Always of the same age; never altering in age (Fr) or that never become decrepit (K) or that never exceed the fit age for service (L, K)

The difference between the two is that "kh-l-d" refers to being evergreen/immortal whereas "a-b-d" refers to eternity/forever.
The difference can be noticed when they are used in the same ayat.

The meaning of the above ayat is that the people who go to hell are eternally immortal in hell. The word "abda"/eternally in the ayat is describing the state of being "khalideen" not being in hell eternally.

Regards,
Janet.

Rekkd

I would love to give my input, but I am giving too controversial input for this forum.

Be well
Amenuel

Share your input. Pretty much you're the only one bringing something new to the table most of the time..

All the other members keep arguing if its eternal or not, for me it doesn't matter much because we wont know until after we die.

Man_of_Faith

Share your input. Pretty much you're the only one bringing something new to the table most of the time..

All the other members keep arguing if its eternal or not, for me it doesn't matter much because we wont know until after we die.

Unfortunately it makes me say something about the Arabic that the administration does not like even if I refer to ancient lexicons and explain my arguments. They are witch-hunting me right now. It probably makes many forum members happy though.

If you would like to hear any particular input from me it has to be in private or on my forum.

Be well
Amenuel

good_logic

Peace Rekkd.

How can Man Of Faith or anyone else know?
GOD says it is "Mathal" i,e allegory.

All opinions are guess work.
You have to wait like Man Of Faith has to wait like we all have to wait.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Rekkd

Peace Rekkd.

How can Man Of Faith or anyone else know?
GOD says it is "Mathal" i,e allegory.

All opinions are guess work.
You have to wait like Man Of Faith has to wait like we all have to wait.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Didn't say he knew. Just wanted to know his opinion, people that have a different perspective than the majority always interest me.

good_logic

Peace Rekkd.

It is fine by me.
I am only stating the fact that no one knows nor will ever know in this life.
GOD has kept certain things like Heaven and hell as allegorical and secret until we get there.

All we know is one will be a reward and the other a sanction.

But yes, you are welcome to seek opinions from whoever you choose brother.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

imrankhawaja

well its always interesting to listen everybody opinions..

everybody hav different immagination of hereafter...

so even we know the truth still we imagine.. and want to imagine what we like.. i still dnt understand why its methaphorical becoz we really dnt understand in this life what is the life hereafter.. even if we see infront of us , we still uable to solve it..

same like if you ask a question of master degree from a student of level one , he will not understand the question.. even if you show him answer , he will still unable to understand the answer...

so let every body imagine what life will be the hereafter as we know its just imagination... nothing else ,

reality of reality is itself a question what you will get to know definately not before hereafter...

Rekkd

Peace Rekkd.

It is fine by me.
I am only stating the fact that no one knows nor will ever know in this life.
GOD has kept certain things like Heaven and hell as allegorical and secret until we get there.

All we know is one will be a reward and the other a sanction.

But yes, you are welcome to seek opinions from whoever you choose brother.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

I know that's why I said we will know after we die D.
MoF believes hell is here, a whole different concept than what is commonly known among majority of people. So he brings in new ideas that always makes me question more and start to look at things from a different point of view. Maybe wtvr I get from him will help me on my journey to discovering the truth.

I believe I'm here for a reason, when I was a silent reader his posts really caught my attention. However, somethings I disagree with him on and I believe its impossible to change my mind when it comes to them.

HP_TECH

Indeed ungrateful it is to call or consider the life of the world Hell when your Lord Has Bestowed upon you innumerable Favors. Which of the favors of your Lord will you deny?

If one likes different opinions then perhaps one would consider how remaining silent and pondering is rather better than the entertaining of doubts.

Expecting to gain something from others on the Internet when one has not the means to truly ascertain whether these individuals are truly believers does not seem like the best way to get help on the journey. Especially when the explanation of The Reading is upon Allah and there is no Helper besides Him

Rekkd

Indeed ungrateful it is to call or consider the life of the world Hell when your Lord Has Bestowed upon you innumerable Favors. Which of the favors of your Lord will you deny?

If one likes different opinions then perhaps one would consider how remaining silent and pondering is rather better than the entertaining of doubts.

Expecting to gain something from others on the Internet when one has not the means to truly ascertain whether these individuals are truly believers does not seem like the best way to get help on the journey. Especially when the explanation of The Reading is upon Allah and there is no Helper besides Him

Lol sorry Sheikh HP_TECH, I did not seek or ask anyone for help. I don't care if MOF is a troll or if he even worships fairies, I'm not an idiot to follow or trust anyone blindly. Instead of pointing fingers and telling people what to do, please take a few lessons in manners and how to treat people.

My opinion is that hell is after we die, eternal too but I have doubts about that part.

Man_of_Faith

Didn't say he knew. Just wanted to know his opinion, people that have a different perspective than the majority always interest me.

I know, but the question is whether one believes me. The reason I know is because the information is disclosed and open to read about.

Additionally, someone injected a thought into my mind which said "development ground" when I strongly implored "what is Hell?" and I happen to realize the word Hell is from Germanic 'hel' which means whole and that is the purpose of this place. The Semitic counterpart means "attachment to bodily" which refers to the condition.

Unfortunately I have been warned by the administration about my activity in explaining Quran so I no longer make any references to it. It is not necessary anyway, for the truth stands out in spite of this. Quran, to me, is an instruction to reach people and reading it is like reading a teacher's book, so I can focus on the substance without making a reference. Those who wonder more can go to me privately.

Be well
Amenuel

Man_of_Faith

Lol sorry Sheikh HP_TECH, I did not seek or ask anyone for help. I don't care if MOF is a troll or if he even worships fairies, I'm not an idiot to follow or trust anyone blindly. Instead of pointing fingers and telling people what to do, please take a few lessons in manners and how to treat people.

My opinion is that hell is after we die, eternal too but I have doubts about that part.

Indeed the facts are not particularly important when compared with the method of reaching where you like. No matter if Hell is a punishment afterwards or is here you should be aiming for the same thing which is becoming a very good version of yourself. And typically instinctive traits are detrimental for spiritual growth, some call then the calls of Satan as an individual but nevertheless it is something which constantly calls us to do ignorant deeds. What Satan is in nature could be regarded as irrelevant as long as you know what it does.

And I am not here as a troll but I consider it offering an alternative view based on logic and reason if we exclude that I know anything about Quran or the truth behind existence. I wished to make a reference to Arabic based on what I know, but I recently found out a traditional Islam forum is not the very best place to do so, or rather I realized it long ago but proceeded in hope tolerance would prevail and it did for quite some time, but now it seems the patience has run out for the administration. I can teach without Quran by talking about what is reasonable and can be reflected upon empirically, and so that this highly logical deduction contradicts Quran and then one can wonder what is wrong themselves. As you know, IN MY OPINION, Quran is interpreted by a bunch of pretenders, so it is not hard to make it fall.

Be well
Amenuel

Man_of_Faith

I believe I'm here for a reason, when I was a silent reader his posts really caught my attention. However, somethings I disagree with him on and I believe its impossible to change my mind when it comes to them.

Even if you implement a fragment of what I convey in terms of input the opened eyes might make you understand more, with or without my help.

Be well
Amenuel

janet

Salaam to all,

The Quran has been translated poorly indeed. In many places the logic is flawed and I would rather believe that is due to poor translation versus flaws in the Quran. Having said that the people interpreting it will either get the correct meaning or the incorrect meaning. A good example of this would be the injunction to cut off the hands of a male or female thief in 538. The logic is clearly flawed in every sense in this injunction. God is made to appear cruel, uncaring and illogical. The word " aydayahuma" denotes power, resources, possession.

Ya-Dal-Ya = to touch, aid, do good, be beneficent, show power and superiority, a hand. By his agency/means.
With a willing hand, out of hand, having financial ability.
In acknowledgement of the superior power, in ready money and not in the form of deferred payment, considering it as a favour, on account of help, (payment should be made by the hand of the parties themselves without the intervention of a third party and without reluctance.
baina yadaihi - before him, in his presence hit, between his two hands.
ulill aidi - men of power (lit. gifted with hands)
suqaita fi aidihim (idiomatic expression) they repented, the idea seems to be that they hit their fingers in grief and contrition.
Handy, Might, Power, Superiority, Benefit, Possession, Favour, Generosity. The idea behind those expressions is that the use of the hand is the real source of the superiority and power. Under his authority, upper hand, arm, foreleg of a beast, handle of a tool, wing of a bird.
ma qaddamat yada - that is what thou hast deserved.

In 564 the same word has been used, but in reference to Allah.

I believe this is referring to the power of Allah and not him literally having hands. The same concept can easily be applied to the male and female thief in 538.

The translation is poor indeed and the logic is flawed in the interpretation. It serves as an example to us to use every faculty we possess and to question and re-question everything we believe as gospel truth including our current understanding of hell.

Regards,
Janet.

Man_of_Faith

You use the spirit you have been blessed with, Janet. Very much commendable of you.

Eventually you may even find out what allah means.

Be well
Amenuel