Which things are predetermined before you are Born?
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I am not sure if I understood your question correctly can you rephrase it please? and btw this is of course only my philosophy (what makes sense to me).
I think creation is not cumulative, if that is what you meant.According to one theory which is the most pervasive today is
that the modern western mind views time as linear with a
beginning and end. Things happen in a line from past to present
to future, that is what is deemed linear. There is also the Semitic
and eastern idea that time is circular and that time goes around
like a clock, no beginning and no end continuously. My personal
view is that time depends on the observer and in some cases the
past, present, and future can be seen simultaneously or each separately.laugh
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I think He knows for sure what He has predetermined.
on other words he already know what will happen, its human who do prediction... but God already know the future...
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I am back from my few days holiday with my 2 year old grandson
peace GL
do you have a grandson how old you are brother i was thinking u r in ur early 30s , sorry for going offtopic..
peace
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Peace Imran.
In my 30 s? ( my middle son is exactly 30 this year).Me, I remember when Noah was building the ark!!!
I am old enough to apply for my free bus pass. ( I am in my sixties,but I feel 30!)
Yes brother I have 2 grand sons . One from each of my 2 daughters.
Sorry for off topic also.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace Imran.
In my 30 s? ( my middle son is exactly 30 this year).Me, I remember when Noah was building the ark!!!
I am old enough to apply for my free bus pass. ( I am in my sixties,but I feel 30!)
Yes brother I have 2 grand sons . One from each of my 2 daughters.
Sorry for off topic also.
GOD bless you.
Peace.ok sir i will be careful next time.. i sometimes talk with you in a level freindly hope so you pardon me for this... if i ever speak anything wrong with you...
peace and God bless you too..
i m also a grandfather my real niece have a daughter of five years... i was officialy grandfather at the age of 28 lol
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brother , again wrong approach,, with respect to human ur statement is sound.. and logical.. thats what intelligence tell us to reason..
but what do you think about God is future is also unseen by God, if you claim its also unseen by God then things will crumble with eachother...
anyway God predicted things in book how come they exactly happen the way God told us...
No no, this is not the wrong approach. It is perfectly sound also in the perception of God. God uses logic and also humans can use logic.
The truth is like this; there is no fully created future yet i.e. the timeline can be affected, but elevated beings can determine future events and there has been determination of future events thousands of years earlier which come true today. Still, the events have not taken place yet even if many things are set out already in the past.
See it like this; let us say I am an influential person through my ascended spirit and I determine it to be a good weather today and then the weather becomes great in a short while. When I determined that it would be a good weather then when it became good weather was in the future, so this is the predestination you are referring to.
There is only as much predestination as there are decided events for it. This is because managers (angels) have decided the future ahead of their happening.
However, interaction in the world and whatever you do as a spirit seed in the world is not predestined as long as you are not following the world's innate "programming" (the instinct). The instinct is a predestination per reasoning, but it is not the right way. When you are in control over the bodily (mind over matter) then you have gone against the predestination which was made in order to be corrupting and consume those who accept the predestination.
When you rebel against the instinct you instead have found a "secret" destination, but the path towards it happens through your spiritual superiority. This is when your true person/soul starts to develop, when you deny the bodily predestination. You refuse to give in to its instinctive driving and that causes the chain it has on you to release and under those circumstances it can more easily develop/grow. Its parable is like comparing it to a plant in the soil which will grow much better if you remove the thistles around it.
Be well
Amenuel -
No no, this is not the wrong approach. It is perfectly sound also in the perception of God. God uses logic and also humans can use logic.
peace brother, make long story short..by just one simple question.
is the future or coming events are not in the knowledge of God?
let say i create a movie and when i finish creating it.. i can see the past present and future anytime between the movie , and what i know is exactly 100% correct..
God create all this not in mare play so do we usse same logic to God is it fair? God logic/knowledge/awareness how somebody can know.?
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Peace All,
Q1311 - For him successive from between and behind him who guard him by the decree of ALLAH. Indeed, ALLAH will not change the condition of a people until they change what is in themselves. And when ALLAH intends for a people ill, there is no repelling it. And there is not for them besides HIM any patron.
We are all being protected and it is up to us to make ourselves better.
peace
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The future is planned ahead in partiality, certain events are determined while others are not. God does not know whether you will succeed or not because that is the trial in the first place, it is a real challenge and not a voodoo doll scene. But if it was predetermined that the world would end in a certain manner or a prophet would run into a specific sequence of events then these will take place.
If you want a modern analogy you could refer to a video game in which you are playing and which is highly interactive. The story is to a large part already programmed, but the story is very open-ended and flexible although certain events which in computer language would be called "scripted" will always occur. And in the end you can reach to two different endings to the main story. You are fully responsible for your acting in the game, but cannot control game rules or scripted events.
For example, if there is a scripted event "doom's day" (time is up) the only way of escaping the event is by beating the game beforehand. The rules are quite straightforward.
Be well
Amenuel -
The future is planned ahead in partiality, certain events are determined while others are not. God does not know whether you will succeed or not because that is the trial in the first place,
RED nope hahaha so God is also unaware about what he planned..
God bless you my brother , i pray you know the defination of real God who is over all things competant..
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He is the One who accepts the repentance from His servants, and remits the sins. He is fully aware of everything you do.
He is the One who created the heavens and the earth, truthfully. Whenever He says, "Be," it is. His word is the absolute truth. All sovereignty belongs to Him the day the horn is blown. Knower of all secrets and declarations, He is the Most Wise, the Cognizant.
He initiated you from one person, and decided your path, as well as your final destiny. We thus clarify the revelations for people who understand.
He is the Alpha and the Omega. He is the Outermost and the Innermost. He is fully aware of all things.
God is the One who raised the heavens without pillars that you can see, then assumed all authority. He committed the sun and the moon, each running (in its orbit) for a predetermined period. He controls all things, and explains the revelations, that you may attain certainty about meeting your Lord.
He is the One who created you from mud, then predetermined your life span, a life span that is known only to Him. Yet, you continue to doubt.
God there is no other god besides Him, the Living, the Eternal. Never a moment of unawareness or slumber overtakes Him. To Him belongs everything in the heavens and everything on earth. Who could intercede with Him, except in accordance with His will? He knows their past, and their future. No one attains any knowledge, except as He wills. His dominion encompasses the heavens and the earth, and ruling them never burdens Him. He is the Most High, the Great.
He is the One God in the heavens and the earth. He knows your secrets and your declarations, and He knows everything you earn.
dear brother ammanuel and all of you please interpret it in any lexicon , corpus or whatever source you think is suitable to first understand the awarenes of God ... before making claims ... God bless you all for me its crystal clear ... i always keep some verses in my notes to provide references ..
God bless you all
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Peace everyone,
In the above quoted verses, the poster has deliberately mistranslated some words.
For example in 2255 it does not say "future". "Bayna aideehim" is interpreted as "what is between their hands" which refers to present. For example see 350, 12111
673 does not say "all unseen" but "the unseen".
698 does not say "final destiny" but "resting place".
132 does not say "control all things" but "manages the affairs".
From the verses quoted in above post it is apparent that God has predetermined some things such as lifespan of humans, sun, moon and resting place of humans.
In 4225, it says "everything you do", not "everything you will do" and 63 says "what you earn", not "what you will earn". This is a very important point because these 2 verses do not claim knowledge of future regarding what you will do and what you will earn.
What about the following verses in which it is crystal clear God does not know certain things? Wouldn't that be a major contradiction?
3140 If you are wounded, then know that the other group is also wounded. And such are the days, We alternate them between the people, so that God YA3LAMA/will know those who believe, and so He may make witnesses from among you; and God does not love the wicked.
3142 Or did you think that you would enter Paradise without God YA3LAMI/knowing those who would strive among you and YA3LAMA/knowing those who are patient?
916 Or did you think that you would be left alone? God will come to YA3LAMI/know those of you who strived and did not take other than God and His messenger and the believers as helpers. God is Expert in what you do.
293 We had tested those before them, so that God would YA3LAMANNA/know those who are truthful and so that He would YA3LAMANNA/know the liars.
5725 We have sent Our messengers with clear proofs, and We sent down with them the Book and the balance, so that the people may uphold justice. And We sent down the iron, wherein there is great strength, and many benefits for the people. So that God would YA3LAMA/know those who would support Him and His messengers in the unseen. God is Powerful, Noble.
IF GOD KNOWS ALL THINGS AND KNOWS THE UNSEEN, THEN WHY DO THESE VERSES INDICATE "SO THAT GOD WOULD KNOW" OR "WILL COME TO KNOW", INDICATING THAT GOD DOES NOT KNOW?
FOR THOSE WHO DELIBERATELY MISTRANSLATE "YA3LAMA" AS "DISTINGUISH", THE QURAN USES THE WORD "YAMEEZ" TO MEAN DISTINGUISH LIKE IN 837, BUT EVEN IF "YA3LAMA ALLAH" IS TRANSLATED AS "GOD MAY DISTINGUISH", IT WOULD STILL IMPLY THAT GOD DOES NOT KNOW.
Why didn't the quran use "yameez" instead of "ya3lam" in all above quoted verses?
Peace.
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i remember a story in which a perosn make a perfect picture and write a note please indicate mistakes...
next day he see a picture full of mistakes... he again designs same picture and this time he write a note please correct any mistakes if it there..
this day no body correct it !
with respect to fallacy of this ,, why did not i find any mistranslated verse in full book in which God is saying i m partially aware , or God is not aware of anything...
forget about God even the controllers of God knows what is going on before he can create khalifa on earth...
i m still looking for any mistranslated verse or correct translated verse in which God claim he is not aware of all things...
lets see how many logical fallacies will be occur this time... as i already know producing an evidence from quran based on logical fallacy is not that easy...lol
God bless you all.. dnt forget about the message which i try to convey you from the story of picture...
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IF GOD KNOWS ALL THINGS AND KNOWS THE UNSEEN, THEN WHY DO THESE VERSES INDICATE "SO THAT GOD WOULD KNOW" OR "WILL COME TO KNOW", INDICATING THAT GOD DOES NOT KNOW?
FOR THOSE WHO DELIBERATELY MISTRANSLATE "YA3LAMA" AS "DISTINGUISH", THE QURAN USES THE WORD "YAMEEZ" TO MEAN DISTINGUISH LIKE IN 837, BUT EVEN IF "YA3LAMA ALLAH" IS TRANSLATED AS "GOD MAY DISTINGUISH", IT WOULD STILL IMPLY THAT GOD DOES NOT KNOW.
hahahaha logical fallacy
distingusihing between right and wrong , mean God dnt know what is right and what is wrong... ! or what is future...
distingushing between green and blue does not mean i dnt know what is blue and what is green... nope
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If God knew every outcome we would not live through testing, God could send each person to whatever destination qualified for. It would be inefficient judgment and would you call God inefficient?
If this was not the case God would merely be playing with us like voodoo dolls as some kind of entertainment.
The claim that God knows every outcome does not hold logically. It appears like a pretty hasted conclusion without sufficient contemplation.
The claim that God knows the exact outcome of each trial is likely based on misconception due to that the common interpretation of Quran says God knows. Obviously God knows what goes on everywhere on Earth simultaneously, every thought and every move, but the fate of each person is not prewritten. Major layouts of future events have been determined beforehand and will occur as decided, but they have not happened before they happen. Development of Rabb's realm is linear and it grows from A to B with expanded consciousnesses.
Be well
Amenuel -
the logic and reason tell us God knows what is the result of all the outcomes... due to the ultimate knowledge he have regarding past present and future...
if God does not knows the outcomes its mean God is not qualified as God .. what type of God is this who is unaware about all the outcomes...
its mean God is limited= knowledge limited= knowledge of outcomes limited..
contradict with your own defination of infinite God... oh my gosshhhhhhhh
what is in the womb of mothers is in the awareness of God . he know what will grow by his limited knowledge what person will do by his actions... God is not responsible for his actions but God is already aware about his actions are totally two different things... whats so difficult in it to uderstand...
a teacher of school knows which student will pass and which will fail logically he should not take exams for promoting them why didnt she just promote them wothout taking the exam... does it sound logical...
a person if he decide to go for a work... he will get 50 pounds if he refuse he will not get any money.... but God is aware what outcome the person will pick.... exactly God knows all the outcomes exactly the God in which i beleive...
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I told you it is a flawed logic and reason, because that means we do not have to live through this as God would take the most efficient path, i.e. immediate judgment. How hard can it be to understand that?
You cannot have knowledge of what has not happened, unless you do not control what is about to happen like a dictator, which obviously God could do but does not. Anyways a strong mind becomes independent as it takes its place in the world, and if sufficiently strong nothing can affect it.
Predestination does not work in practice, it falls logically.
what is in the womb of mothers is in the awareness of God . he know what will grow by his limited knowledge what person will do by his actions... God is not responsible for his actions but God is already aware about his actions are totally two different things... whats so difficult in it to uderstand...
The reason is that it does not hold by logic. His life has no purpose to begin with as he cannot control anything, he is like a puppet and God controls him like some kind of voodoo doll as I wrote thrice I think.
its mean God is limited= knowledge limited= knowledge of outcomes limited..
contradict with your own defination of infinite God... oh my gosshhhhhhhh
It does not necessarily make God finite. Like I wrote you cannot have knowledge of what has not happened, unless you already made the plans like a movie beforehand. It does not mean you lack knowledge as the time sequence does not exist, not at that moment. A person who has not yet killed another man has also not killed the man, he is only guilty by the time he kills the another man. Before he killed the man, that fate was not yet created. We are that much in control of our fates, it is a privilege, God is seeking to develop independent minds in His/Her/Its own. We are here because we struggle to become adept like God, perfect specimens. God is developing "clones" of Himself/Herself/Itself in order to expand His/Her/Its Grand Consciousness. This is a more or less true passage from the Genesis part of Bible (the translation is overall decent compared to other parts) "God made man in His own image". Man's Spirit is a seed/share/part of God while the body with its weak functionality is the world's contradiction and as a process of "filtering" out impurities all the seeds were attached to bodies for a very advanced trial in immense delusion (i.e. the seat we are in right now sitting here in our bodies while often not being aware of the truth). In the end when the test cycle is over the impurities will be removed like weeds are picked and withered while the fine specimens are part of God's expanded Grand Consciousness.
In summary everything is a purification process, more strong minds mean a far more superior ultimate mega mind in its unity. We work together, those of us who managed to develop ours minds, so we are like the Borg in Star Trek. The separate one God distinct from us is a religious fabrication. We are like a drop of the ocean and the ocean is God.
Be well
Amenuel -
why did God split it up himself, what was the need?
why filtering everybody through pain, hardship, tests, misery, hunger?
what benefit God is getting from all this?
if you think like human.. u have answers, if you think like God you get more confuse... becoz simple we r not a part of God ,creation is in need of creator ,,, creator is free of any need....
there was a creation... hence God created it , creation accepted it... or according to your theory God is asking from self or some parts of himself to take that test... o why will i give myself pain...
according to you what is the purpose of doing all this ... big stage of life having characters in it,, some full of righteousness and some full of shit... who are all they.(faulty parts of God)?
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Peace Amenuel,
I quoted verses from the quran that clearly imply God does not know certain things and yet people keep arguing otherwise. It is impossible and futile to argue with those "muslimeen" who don't believe/trust what the quran itself says or don't accept quranic evidence.
Also note those verses create CLEAR contradiction with 573 which uses the same word from the root "ayn-lam-miim". I have read past posts on this and no one here on this forum has been able to resolve this contradiction in the last 10+ years without resorting to deliberate misinterpretation.
Peace
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Truthseeker,
God knows everything as it occurs, but created us with powerful mind potential (actually the same image as Himself/Herself/Itself). The future does not exist as God awaits what path each one of us will take in order to evaluate our worthiness. God knows what path we take, but not what path we Will take (before we take the path), like you said yourself. However God will know our intention by the mere thought.
It is the path we take which God is waiting for in order to see those who are fit to be managers.
Be well
Amenuel