Which things are predetermined before you are Born?
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Peace everyone,
In the above quoted verses, the poster has deliberately mistranslated some words.
For example in 2255 it does not say "future". "Bayna aideehim" is interpreted as "what is between their hands" which refers to present. For example see 350, 12111
673 does not say "all unseen" but "the unseen".
698 does not say "final destiny" but "resting place".
132 does not say "control all things" but "manages the affairs".
From the verses quoted in above post it is apparent that God has predetermined some things such as lifespan of humans, sun, moon and resting place of humans.
In 4225, it says "everything you do", not "everything you will do" and 63 says "what you earn", not "what you will earn". This is a very important point because these 2 verses do not claim knowledge of future regarding what you will do and what you will earn.
What about the following verses in which it is crystal clear God does not know certain things? Wouldn't that be a major contradiction?
3140 If you are wounded, then know that the other group is also wounded. And such are the days, We alternate them between the people, so that God YA3LAMA/will know those who believe, and so He may make witnesses from among you; and God does not love the wicked.
3142 Or did you think that you would enter Paradise without God YA3LAMI/knowing those who would strive among you and YA3LAMA/knowing those who are patient?
916 Or did you think that you would be left alone? God will come to YA3LAMI/know those of you who strived and did not take other than God and His messenger and the believers as helpers. God is Expert in what you do.
293 We had tested those before them, so that God would YA3LAMANNA/know those who are truthful and so that He would YA3LAMANNA/know the liars.
5725 We have sent Our messengers with clear proofs, and We sent down with them the Book and the balance, so that the people may uphold justice. And We sent down the iron, wherein there is great strength, and many benefits for the people. So that God would YA3LAMA/know those who would support Him and His messengers in the unseen. God is Powerful, Noble.
IF GOD KNOWS ALL THINGS AND KNOWS THE UNSEEN, THEN WHY DO THESE VERSES INDICATE "SO THAT GOD WOULD KNOW" OR "WILL COME TO KNOW", INDICATING THAT GOD DOES NOT KNOW?
FOR THOSE WHO DELIBERATELY MISTRANSLATE "YA3LAMA" AS "DISTINGUISH", THE QURAN USES THE WORD "YAMEEZ" TO MEAN DISTINGUISH LIKE IN 837, BUT EVEN IF "YA3LAMA ALLAH" IS TRANSLATED AS "GOD MAY DISTINGUISH", IT WOULD STILL IMPLY THAT GOD DOES NOT KNOW.
Why didn't the quran use "yameez" instead of "ya3lam" in all above quoted verses?
Peace.
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i remember a story in which a perosn make a perfect picture and write a note please indicate mistakes...
next day he see a picture full of mistakes... he again designs same picture and this time he write a note please correct any mistakes if it there..
this day no body correct it !
with respect to fallacy of this ,, why did not i find any mistranslated verse in full book in which God is saying i m partially aware , or God is not aware of anything...
forget about God even the controllers of God knows what is going on before he can create khalifa on earth...
i m still looking for any mistranslated verse or correct translated verse in which God claim he is not aware of all things...
lets see how many logical fallacies will be occur this time... as i already know producing an evidence from quran based on logical fallacy is not that easy...lol
God bless you all.. dnt forget about the message which i try to convey you from the story of picture...
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IF GOD KNOWS ALL THINGS AND KNOWS THE UNSEEN, THEN WHY DO THESE VERSES INDICATE "SO THAT GOD WOULD KNOW" OR "WILL COME TO KNOW", INDICATING THAT GOD DOES NOT KNOW?
FOR THOSE WHO DELIBERATELY MISTRANSLATE "YA3LAMA" AS "DISTINGUISH", THE QURAN USES THE WORD "YAMEEZ" TO MEAN DISTINGUISH LIKE IN 837, BUT EVEN IF "YA3LAMA ALLAH" IS TRANSLATED AS "GOD MAY DISTINGUISH", IT WOULD STILL IMPLY THAT GOD DOES NOT KNOW.
hahahaha logical fallacy
distingusihing between right and wrong , mean God dnt know what is right and what is wrong... ! or what is future...
distingushing between green and blue does not mean i dnt know what is blue and what is green... nope
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If God knew every outcome we would not live through testing, God could send each person to whatever destination qualified for. It would be inefficient judgment and would you call God inefficient?
If this was not the case God would merely be playing with us like voodoo dolls as some kind of entertainment.
The claim that God knows every outcome does not hold logically. It appears like a pretty hasted conclusion without sufficient contemplation.
The claim that God knows the exact outcome of each trial is likely based on misconception due to that the common interpretation of Quran says God knows. Obviously God knows what goes on everywhere on Earth simultaneously, every thought and every move, but the fate of each person is not prewritten. Major layouts of future events have been determined beforehand and will occur as decided, but they have not happened before they happen. Development of Rabb's realm is linear and it grows from A to B with expanded consciousnesses.
Be well
Amenuel -
the logic and reason tell us God knows what is the result of all the outcomes... due to the ultimate knowledge he have regarding past present and future...
if God does not knows the outcomes its mean God is not qualified as God .. what type of God is this who is unaware about all the outcomes...
its mean God is limited= knowledge limited= knowledge of outcomes limited..
contradict with your own defination of infinite God... oh my gosshhhhhhhh
what is in the womb of mothers is in the awareness of God . he know what will grow by his limited knowledge what person will do by his actions... God is not responsible for his actions but God is already aware about his actions are totally two different things... whats so difficult in it to uderstand...
a teacher of school knows which student will pass and which will fail logically he should not take exams for promoting them why didnt she just promote them wothout taking the exam... does it sound logical...
a person if he decide to go for a work... he will get 50 pounds if he refuse he will not get any money.... but God is aware what outcome the person will pick.... exactly God knows all the outcomes exactly the God in which i beleive...
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I told you it is a flawed logic and reason, because that means we do not have to live through this as God would take the most efficient path, i.e. immediate judgment. How hard can it be to understand that?
You cannot have knowledge of what has not happened, unless you do not control what is about to happen like a dictator, which obviously God could do but does not. Anyways a strong mind becomes independent as it takes its place in the world, and if sufficiently strong nothing can affect it.
Predestination does not work in practice, it falls logically.
what is in the womb of mothers is in the awareness of God . he know what will grow by his limited knowledge what person will do by his actions... God is not responsible for his actions but God is already aware about his actions are totally two different things... whats so difficult in it to uderstand...
The reason is that it does not hold by logic. His life has no purpose to begin with as he cannot control anything, he is like a puppet and God controls him like some kind of voodoo doll as I wrote thrice I think.
its mean God is limited= knowledge limited= knowledge of outcomes limited..
contradict with your own defination of infinite God... oh my gosshhhhhhhh
It does not necessarily make God finite. Like I wrote you cannot have knowledge of what has not happened, unless you already made the plans like a movie beforehand. It does not mean you lack knowledge as the time sequence does not exist, not at that moment. A person who has not yet killed another man has also not killed the man, he is only guilty by the time he kills the another man. Before he killed the man, that fate was not yet created. We are that much in control of our fates, it is a privilege, God is seeking to develop independent minds in His/Her/Its own. We are here because we struggle to become adept like God, perfect specimens. God is developing "clones" of Himself/Herself/Itself in order to expand His/Her/Its Grand Consciousness. This is a more or less true passage from the Genesis part of Bible (the translation is overall decent compared to other parts) "God made man in His own image". Man's Spirit is a seed/share/part of God while the body with its weak functionality is the world's contradiction and as a process of "filtering" out impurities all the seeds were attached to bodies for a very advanced trial in immense delusion (i.e. the seat we are in right now sitting here in our bodies while often not being aware of the truth). In the end when the test cycle is over the impurities will be removed like weeds are picked and withered while the fine specimens are part of God's expanded Grand Consciousness.
In summary everything is a purification process, more strong minds mean a far more superior ultimate mega mind in its unity. We work together, those of us who managed to develop ours minds, so we are like the Borg in Star Trek. The separate one God distinct from us is a religious fabrication. We are like a drop of the ocean and the ocean is God.
Be well
Amenuel -
why did God split it up himself, what was the need?
why filtering everybody through pain, hardship, tests, misery, hunger?
what benefit God is getting from all this?
if you think like human.. u have answers, if you think like God you get more confuse... becoz simple we r not a part of God ,creation is in need of creator ,,, creator is free of any need....
there was a creation... hence God created it , creation accepted it... or according to your theory God is asking from self or some parts of himself to take that test... o why will i give myself pain...
according to you what is the purpose of doing all this ... big stage of life having characters in it,, some full of righteousness and some full of shit... who are all they.(faulty parts of God)?
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Peace Amenuel,
I quoted verses from the quran that clearly imply God does not know certain things and yet people keep arguing otherwise. It is impossible and futile to argue with those "muslimeen" who don't believe/trust what the quran itself says or don't accept quranic evidence.
Also note those verses create CLEAR contradiction with 573 which uses the same word from the root "ayn-lam-miim". I have read past posts on this and no one here on this forum has been able to resolve this contradiction in the last 10+ years without resorting to deliberate misinterpretation.
Peace
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Truthseeker,
God knows everything as it occurs, but created us with powerful mind potential (actually the same image as Himself/Herself/Itself). The future does not exist as God awaits what path each one of us will take in order to evaluate our worthiness. God knows what path we take, but not what path we Will take (before we take the path), like you said yourself. However God will know our intention by the mere thought.
It is the path we take which God is waiting for in order to see those who are fit to be managers.
Be well
Amenuel -
It is like randomly spreading out seeds in a garden and then see which plant will grow best. Each seed has a gardener and the sanity of each of them determines the outcome of the plant and God will only pick the best fruits of the most developed cultivation.
The best seeds landed on fertile soil, were watered and the weeds kept away. Those with no sound foundation, poor watering and lots of weeds will not develop well and the fruit small and tasteless if the cultivation even becomes ripe instead of withering before completion.
This parable I am not the first one to use, but it is a good one. The garden parable is very analogous.
Be well
Amenuel -
Peace truthseeker11 maybe you are right but what you suggest in new to me.
I never read anything in Quran that suggests that Allah is ignorant! What happened
to the All-knowing?ig?no?rant
inrnt/
adjectivelacking knowledge, information, or awareness about something in particular.
"they were ignorant of astronomy"
synonyms without knowledge of, unaware of, unconscious of, oblivious to,
incognizant of, unfamiliar with, unacquainted with, uninformed about, ill-
informed about, unenlightened about, unconversant with, inexperienced
in/with, naive about, green about;&
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The future does not exist as God awaits what path each one of us will take in order to evaluate our worthiness. God knows what path we take, but not what path we Will take
another finding about God , that God awaits brickwall ,, its same like a judge waits for the performance in the show to give prize to winner...
RED so infact God have no control on creation... if some crazy soilder wanted to finish world he can do it with hydrogen bomb or if some atom get explode by the mistake of scientist all humanity get destroyed ,, its mean any state can bring judgement day like terminator 2 before the appointed time set by God.. isnt it... i remember a verse BTW
?And Zal Nun (Jonah), when he went off in anger, and he thought that We would
not be able to take him. Then he called out in the darkness ?There is no god but
You! Glory to You, I was of the wicked!?? (Quran 2187) -
I never read anything in Quran that suggests that Allah is ignorant! What happened
to the All-knowing?i still wonder about the ignorance of God, how he manage to create the billions of galaxies spinning without having an accident...
i still wonder why sun did not get his energy finish or need a charging wire....
i still wonder how God manage to make a creation that have emotions like human beings...
i still wonder how an ignorant God knows future events as well as past with exact accuracy... none of them proved wrong yet...
i still wonder how an ignorant God create an intelligent design which is itself a miracle...
i still wonder how can an ignorant God create all this and we are unable to create a fly , instead if fly snatch something from us we are unable to get it back...
is that ignorance or lack of knowledge... lets check the height of knowledge of the creator who i know....
if all the trees are pen and all the oceans are the ink ,,,
the words of your lord will not run out even if you double the supply of ink...Allah is noble and wise 31 27interestingly this chapter end with a superb verse which i m presenting here now...
3134 Verily, with God alone rests the knowledge of when the Last Hour will come and He sends down rain; and He knows what is in the wombs, whereas no one knows what he will reap tomorrow, and no one knows in what land he will die, Verily. God is all-knowing, all-aware.
inna AllahaAAaleemun khabeerun... used plantey of times in quran... to make us understand ... he is well aware of everything...
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Peace everyone,
AL-3ALEEM or 3ALEEM as an attribute of God cannot be translated as "ALL-KNOWING" in the quran.
If "al-3aleem" or "3aleem" can be translated as "all-knowing" then "al-wadood" (8514) or "wadood" (1190) can be translated as "all-loving", which would mean God loves everyone, even the aggressors and those who cover the truth. But according to the quran God does not love everyone (2190, 2276, 332, 357, 3140, 436, 4107, 564, 587, 858, 2238, 2876-77, 3118, 5723).
Actually God does not love majority of people, because majority of people will set up partners (12106) and thus God will never forgive a majority of people (448, 4116) and put them in fire (572) with no chance of forgiveness. Still God can have attribute of "al-wadood".
This proves by quranic evidence that "al-wadood" or "wadood" as an attribute of God in the quran cannot mean "all-loving" but can only mean "the loving". So an attribute of God in the quran cannot give the meaning of "all".
This indirectly proves that "al-3aleem" or "3aleem" as attribute of God in the quran cannot mean "all-knowing", but can only mean "the knower" or "knowing".
Peace
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This indirectly proves that "al-3aleem" or "3aleem" as attribute of God in the quran cannot mean "all-knowing", but can only mean "the knower" or "knowing".
all universe = universe or not..
all world = world or not..
all knower = knower or unaware unknowing...
all population of world = population of world
all merciful = merciful or cruel..
indirect = direct...
i eat the apple = direct
the apple is eaten by me = indirect... -
Quran 4064] God is the One who rendered the earth habitable for you, and the sky a formidable structure, and He designed you, and designed you well. He is the One who provides you with good provisions.* Such is God your Lord; Most Exalted is God, Lord of the universe.
according to this verse God is providing provisions.. but hold on a second... i get food from my mother and now i m living another country so its the take away that provide the food and if nobody is there i cook myself...
indirectly this verse is not true becoz God did not provide me a food... hence here is the proof....
rotfl rotfl rotfl
the one who rejects will reject every single verse if he wants to... depend on the understanding...
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Thanks truthseeker11 I agree Allah is the "the knower" but is
Allah ignorant!ig?no?rant
inrnt/
adjectivelacking knowledge, information, or awareness about something in particular.
"they were ignorant of astronomy"
synonyms without knowledge of, unaware of, unconscious of, oblivious to,
incognizant of, unfamiliar with, unacquainted with, uninformed about, ill-
informed about, unenlightened about, unconversant with, inexperienced
in/with, naive about, green about;&
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nope
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9105 Say, "Act! (Prove your word with action). God will watch your actions and so will His Messenger, and the believers. Ultimately you will be returned to the Knower of the invisible/unseen and visible/seen. Then, He will make you understand what you used to do
77 We will recount the whole story for them, for We were never absent in Time and Place.
pr hail
al hamdulilah hey rab ul alameen....
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Unseen is a word you could also translate secret.
The passage you qouted does not say God knows the future. It says through all time God was there in any location.
The future is not written for then what we live through is redundant. It is weak logic to argue otherwise.
Be well
Amenuel