TSUNAMI - who Allah destroys ?
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Salaamun Beatnik
Peace Bokmei, this is quite funny, because your above description, describes what a muslim is to me perfectly! Animals, flora and the elements dont have free will, they didnt accept the 'tyrst' with God, only the human soul or consciousness did, therefore only we have the choice in whether we will be muslims or not. Everything else in the universe is a muslim, because it submits to God without question. The planets move in their orbits, the soil comes to life again due to rain and the bees and ants do their thing seemingly on automatic. Everything in the universe obeys God and His laws (of gravity, physics, everything), but only human beings (and Jinn) have the free will to be stupid enough to disobey.
It would be helpful then, if you would post an ayat where Allah substantiates your view. I must agree with Dr. Fazl, when he wrote this
"Are we not aware muslim is a specific title, awarded for god-fearing humans alone? "
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Peace all,
shamsul-arefin, I agree with you.
PRIEST_BOKMEI, I'm not an expert with lots of suras and verses ready at my disposal, lol, but doesnt 'muslim' mean one who submits to God and His laws? Why would this term only be exclusive to human beings? We always see verses saying how things such as planets and animals 'prostrate' to God, are they not then muslims? They follow a part of Islam, the main part, of submitting to God unquestioningly (the Quran repeatedly alludes to creation as a living thing, such as a mountain crumbling in awe of God, etc), wheras humans have extra rules layed out for them because we accepted free will. We need to know how to come to grips with this decision we made before we were even born, and the Quran is a mercy for us, a guide to deal with responsibility.
Honestly, this is the way I've seen it for a while, human beings accepted free will, Islam is based on choice, its forbidden to go around forcibly converting people, everyone has the choice in what they do on this planet, that is the whole purpose of our existence, because if we had no choice then there would be no point to all this. We make choices and then are judged for them. I'm sure there are verses where God asks everything in creation to follow Him, and everything submits, except this form of matter or entity that eventually became us. Human soul or consciousness accepted free will, I think we're even called 'foolhardy' for doing such a thing.
I guess I'm going off topic now, but I want to assure you just because I'm promoting free will for human beings, that does not mean I'm taking away anything from God, because as we all know God is omnipotent and all powerful. He can see us outside of time and space, like the way He created the universe, as if opening a scroll. We are in that scroll, our timeline, and our choices, and God can see it all, past, present and future, but just because He knows, it doesnt mean we have no choice. We know where the earth and moon will be in 10 years time, but that doesnt mean we caused that to happen. Understand? I do believe God answers the prayers of good muslims, but its not in a way that most people think, its not black and white, its in some kind of subtle way that works within this sytem of life, I'm still formulating thoughts on how it occurs.
We have to take responsibility for our actions and inactions or we'll suffer God's wrath, make no mistake. Check out the thread I made 'The Dark Age of Islam' see what happens when you shed your responsibility and become a fatalist.
Everything in the universe does what it must, everything submits to God without question, the universe is muslim. Only human beings have choice, and God has been merciful to us in giving us a guide on how to deal with this massive responsibility, and we should be thankful everyday of our lives for that.
Peace.
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As'Salaam Alaykum All,
Excellent points Beatnik!
I'm not an expert with lots of suras and verses ready at my disposal, lol, but doesnt 'muslim' mean one who submits to God and His laws? Why would this term only be exclusive to human beings? We always see verses saying how things such as planets and animals 'prostrate' to God, are they not then muslims? They follow a part of Islam, the main part, of submitting to God unquestioningly (the Quran repeatedly alludes to creation as a living thing, such as a mountain crumbling in awe of God, etc), wheras humans have extra rules layed out for them because we accepted free will. We need to know how to come to grips with this decision we made before we were even born, and the Quran is a mercy for us, a guide to deal with responsibility.
The responsibility of being a khalifa... a representative! The one thing that is certain about the tsunami event is that many people died and many are suffering as we speak. Death is the "great equalizer" and the power of life and death belong to Allah alone. Birth and Death belong strictly to Allah, as well as everything that happens in between. Human beings as the Khalifa of Allah have been given the "awareness" of Allah within their "being". The ability to be conscious or aware of the Divine Consciousness/Being" that gave birth to their existence, and the ability to either submit to that "Being" and be rewarded with a straight and harmonious path or... rebel from it and create a crooked path full of suffering, based upon false pride... because you thought that awareness of self gave you a will other than Allah's... a "false sense of pride". The same type of pride Iblis demonstrated when he was asked to bow before Adam. Our submission is neither greater or less than anything else in this creation. We have no "will" per se, that is an illusion created by our ego's .
because I'm promoting free will for human beings, that does not mean I'm taking away anything from God, because as we all know God is omnipotent and all powerful. He can see us outside of time and space, like the way He created the universe, as if opening a scroll. We are in that scroll, our timeline, and our choices, and God can see it all, past, present and future, but just because He knows, it doesnt mean we have no choice. We know where the earth and moon will be in 10 years time, but that doesnt mean we caused that to happen. Understand? I do believe God answers the prayers of good muslims, but its not in a way that most people think, its not black and white, its in some kind of subtle way that works within this sytem of life,
We don't need to know why the tsunami occured, only that it is the will of Allah. However, we know what the Qur'an says about the unity of Allah's creation. We know that as long as human beings are suffering, we are suffering. We know that as long as we claim to be muslim and Mu'min then it is our responsibility to ease suffering, to establish peace, to promote harmony within Islam . We are here to serve this creation, to "serve" as Allah's representative. Our status as muslims or mu'min will be determined by our actions in accrodance to that.
Everything in the universe does what it must, everything submits to God without question, the universe is muslim. Only human beings have choice, and God has been merciful to us in giving us a guide on how to deal with this massive responsibility, and we should be thankful everyday of our lives for that.
Absolutely! Now... do we sit here and make judgements about why the tsunami happened, or do we look to the Qur'an for guidance on how we may ease the pain and suffering caused by the tsunami and how we may restore peace to the areas effected by it. How may we address the "living" according to the guidance of the Qur'an?
That "individualized awareness" we have been given is not a "free will". First... it is not a will, Allah's will is the only reality. Second... that awareness is not "free", it comes with the price of responsibility, the cost of being a representative of the Boss... a khalifa. Our limited intellects could not explain what happened any better than they could have prevented it. We are not the reason for this universe... Allah is. Let us aceept what Hu has caused to be... and act accordingly, using the Qur'an as our guide.
Ma'Salaam,
Olu'sanya -
The United States is the most powerful nation on earth. Does that mean that it is the most right, the most wise? Maybe it is and those of us who envy its success should recognize right as right and wrong as wrong. Or atleast recognize what is more right from what is more wrong.
Should we generalize and include the beliefs of the whole nation of United States citizens or the beliefs that govern the nation?
I have believed for a long time that civilizations/ whole communities are destroyed when its people no longer permit its citizens to worship God freely, as they feel fit. Whether that destruction be the scattering of the civilzation or its destruction by some natural disaster.
But as it was stated earlier God determines when our time to die is, and death is never a punishment. Death is a natural step so that we can go back to God and be judged by Him for what we did in our lives.
I think it should be taken into consideration that
1.Passing away from this life is never a punishment
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The disintegration and failure of a community is a punishment.
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Punishments are necessary lessons for all of us to learn from. They hurt the pride and union of whatever community they befall but they force us to reconsider that pride and the basis of that union.
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Destruction of civilizations has to do with God causing a civilization to fail, not through causing it's members to pass away.
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The formula that
Passing away or being killed (whether massive or local) = punishment
is a wrong idea and I have found it most prevalent amongst American Christians.
- Death has more than one meaning
We use it to refer to any passing away from this earthly life.
We use it to refer to people or things that feel no purpose in life, who are not animated. Basically all things that we can lable as lifeless.
Passing away from this earthly life is not a punishment no matter how we go.
Dying and/or being destroyed in its metaphorical sense is to be erased completely and never remembered, to walk the earth without purpose, to be ignorant, dull, hard-hearted and hard-headed. This is the death and the destruction that I find is being talked about in the Koran when it mentions that 'the dead don't hear,' that people are 'dumb, deaf and blind' or that God destroyed civilizations for their abusiveness.
Godbless,
Anwar -
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Look at the different responses of various faiths here
http//news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4138095.stm
Ironically as you can tell from my previous posts in this thread, my view is apparently closer to christianity than the so called muslim view given here. This is the exact fatalist view that was shown at the beginning and all throughout the Dark Age of Islam, the loss of the Golden Age of learning and acheivement. And it is the attitude displayed now, and look at the state of islam today.
(I obviously dont believe Jesus is alive, etc, but the man has a point in that people are quick to blame God for bad things, when God makes it clear that any bad thing that happens is our own fault)
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God blessings on everyone,
Beatnik said
I obviously dont believe Jesus is alive, etc, but the man has a point in that people are quick to blame God for bad things, when God makes it clear that any bad thing that happens is our own fault)
Yes beatnik everything bad that happens to us God sends on us because of our own faults (whether these faults be states of mind alone or mistaken beliefs accompanied by mistaken actions).
I perfectly agree with you. The Dark Age of Islam and of any culture is in that fatalism that you mentioned. When we just accept the bad things and don't try to improve ourselves and our attraction to God's grace then we will be truly stuck.
"Bad things" are things that happen to encourage us to look deeper, to be more godly, to change our mistaken views for the better. The people of Thailand are demonstrating the right thing to do, in that many of them have poured out from their homes to help and aid those who have been affected by the disaster. They are reaching out to help the masaakin, that is the miskeen(the miserable, the pitiful). The disaster if anything has helped to bring the godliness out in all these Thais. God bless them! May he improve their conditions and advance their progress!
Godbless,
Anwar