Who are those in authority?
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Peace,
My question is about who are those in authority among the God Alone Muslim's?
Following verse from the Quran commands Muslim's to obey
"Believers! Obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority among you..." (Qur'an 459)
Do God Alone Muslim's need to organise and accept some as those in authority? How about Layth putting up a donation account and to start putting emphasis on gatherings?
Thanks
What kind of people did Allah always give authority to among the people despite the hypocrites disagreeing.
You will find those similar traits among believers in authority today.And it is not determined by owning things, popularity nor a forum....
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459 O you who believe, obey God and obey the messenger and those in authority among you. But if you dispute in any matter, then you shall refer it to God and His messenger if you believe in God and the Last Day. That is better and more suitable for knowing.
i think its about experty... when you are in doubt about something so ask from expert who is well aware of the subject..
like if you want to understand the verse that regarding to science , a well known scientist can understannd it better and then he represent his unnderstanding in case of kethmore discovery related to child birth process regarding word "alaqa"
sometimes human being debate on some issues which he really dnt have knowledge off...
God knows best...
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Peace Comrox, all,
What if the community or government leaders are corrupt and pass laws that are unjust? For example if they pass a law that we have to pay 40% income tax and that tax money is used for obeying the service to self puppet masters so they can fulfil their own nefarious agendas. Then indirectly we are obeying the hidden negatively oriented elite "powers to be"
there is not a single cent of all the income taxes collected from US citizens that goes towards a single service or benefit the US Government provides.
http//freedom-articles.toolsforfreedom.com/federal-income-tax-only-pays-debt/
Or if they pass a law that we have to join the army to fight and murder people for reasons against our ideology
http//www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/48-years-ago-today-Muhammad-Ali-refused-the-5435356.php
His refusal to obey led to Supreme Court reversing his conviction later on.
Additionally, how can we determine who is an expert in a field that makes him/her an authority? Even Einstein's special theory of relativity and his famous formula were later shown to have some flaws. The religious scholars and "free-minds experts" can have incorrect interpretations and opinions also.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9608506.0
http//www.mrelativity.net/FatalFlawsinEinstein'sSpecialTheoryofRelativity/Fatal%20Flaws%20in%20Einstein%E2%80%99s%20Special%20Theory%20of%20Relativity.htm
Peace
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459 O you who believe, obey God and obey the messenger and those in authority among you. But if you dispute in any matter, then you shall refer it to God and His messenger if you believe in God and the Last Day. That is better and more suitable for knowing.
Peace, this ayat is time locked and applies to then/when the messenger was alive.
muscle
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I would like to know what the word conveying "authority" can and should mean in the original text.
As my handle suggests, i am a philosopher and there are few things as relevant in society as the matter of authority, so it's something i've given much thought.
The German word for authority is "Gewalt" which means both "violence" as well as "authority". This is a meaningful confluence for popular authority and violence often go hand-in-hand.There are really 2 kinds of authority power-based and competence-based. It gets to be quite Orwellian when these 2 meanings get confused.
Based on psychological research it appears about 75% of folks suffer from an authoritarian trauma.
Alice Miller's research explains how and why;
Peter Kropotkin's research explains why 25% do not suffer from this traumatic conditioning
The Milgram Experiment sets the percentage between 65 and 85%People with an authoritarian trauma look at authority in a completely different way than people without such conditioning. In actuality the 2 groups speak a different language; someone with the authoritarian conditioning cannot even imagine life without a strong leader and projects assumptions in this regard on things others say, even when they're neither implied nor included.
I believe the prophet Jesus in his advice and 'rules' ] was aware of this split in society and offered wisdom to arm his disciples against it.
Gandhi's peaceful rebellion is similar to Jesus' advice to turn the other cheek and walk another mile, both of which brought shame and disrepute on those of authority;- a slave had rights in Jewish culture at the time and could only be slapped (i.e. with the palm of the hand); a fist to the face could only happen between Jews. If a slave turned his face away the Jew wishing to slap him was faced with a dilemma strike him as an egual or not at all.
- Roman soldiers could demand of any Jew or slave to walk their things 1 mile, but not 2; by telling people "to walk another mile" Jesus was suggesting an act of revolt (against Roman authority); if you walked 2 or 3 or more miles for a Roman soldier, he could be reprimanded for abusing authority...
So, "authority"; what are we talking about?
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So, "authority"; what are we talking about?
Peace, it's those dispatched by the messenger at that time ...
459 O you the ones believes ye of obey ye of the god and obey ye of the messenger and those the directive (i.e. dispatched) among you so if differ you in thing so refer it to the god and the messenger if be you believing in the god and the day the last such best and most suitable elucidation of
http//oi65.tinypic.com/2uopf6a.jpg
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Do God Alone Muslim's need to organise and accept some as those in authority? How about Layth putting up a donation account and to start putting emphasis on gatherings?
No, it is not talking about requirement for an authority. Instead it gives a general/realistic suggestion. You brought up Layth. I think we can use him as an example. He owns the forum and has control over it. We are to obey his written rules in discussions and debates. But yeah, when reading them if we see something that just does not seem to match what Allah prefers then we can disagree with him by using the verses he is going against.
The full verse459 reveals that we have the right to do so
O you who believe! Obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those having authority among you. Then if you disagree in anything, refer it to Allah and the Messenger, if you believe in Allah and the Day Last. That (is) best and more suitable (for final) determination.Verses after this gives features of an authority who pretends to be Muslim
460 Do you not see those who claim that they believe in what (is) revealed to you and what was revealed before you? They wish to go for judgment to the false deities and surely they were ordered to reject it. And the Shaitaan wishes to mislead them astray - far away.
461 And when it is said to them, "Come to what Allah (has) revealed and to the Messenger," you see the hypocrites turning away from you (in) aversion.
462 So how when befalls them disaster for what sent forth their hands then they come to you swearing by Allah, "Not we intended except good and reconciliation."Real life example from another "Islamic" forum
https//3.bp.blogspot.com/-6GqOuwPNTx4/V0CSB4C1oqI/AAAAAAAAALg/3495ckoA0eM86DxOBHx3_j7ZDWHXczVBwCLcB/s1600/sectarianandquran.png -
I think I agree with Noon.
I think the ayaat we are discussing was specific to the people of the time.
If we try to apply that today it would not sustain relevance as there is no clear leadership.
Also I don't believe it applies to authority in general because we can think of examples in the Quran about believers disobeying authority and seeing as criminals.
Surely God would not have us obey criminals only because He granted them power and wealth.However I do believe that there are many leaders ad authority figures in each household.
As we are encouraged to prayAnd those who say, "Our Lord! Grant to us from our spouses and our offspring comfort (to) our eyes, and make us for the righteous a leader."
Quran 2574 -
I think thi imam in 25.74 refers to people who can be an iniration annd a source of widom, that i a moral authority, and the conflict prsneted by Socrate persist.
Nobody questions morral authority, that is self-manifest and is spontaneously acknowledged without compulsion.
On te other hand the authority which relie on powe is annother question. For tht ki of authority we are injoined shuraa.
But shuraa requires tht people become responsible, each of them, for their society so that in fact they can conform real shura not merely (parlamentarian) formal sura without content. The basis for that is self connsciousness of the people an acknowleedgemet of their responsibility.
If peole are not conscious nor resonsibility they will get power authority which they may not be able to control, well they will not ocntrol at all and then they will be le like sheep by those wo have the raw power. .
Salaam
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We all, as humans, have 3 brains
- our logical brain, the neo cortex
- our emotional brain, the brain's lymbic system
- our instinctual brain, the brain stem or reptilian brain
We all use all 3 brains simultaneously all the time. When all 3 are used IN BALANCE, this is called "intelligence". Now, in the culture that champions ignorance "intelligence" and "intellect" are often seen as synonyms, but that's obviously mad. Intellect without a balance of emotion and instinct leads to madness and has nothing to do with intelligence.
In matters of justice we see how logical , moral and natural arguments are brought forth as if they are all one and the same. And when CULTURAL arguments or PARANOID arguments are brought forth, it all really gets confusing!
We are all cerebral empathetic animals . Power-based authority mainly plays on paranoia, negative conditioning and instinct. On the other hand, competence-based authority is based on intellect and common sense .
You may now see how there is a 'God' and a 'Devil' in all of this...
Intelligent people are psychologically whole and healthy, whereas others are traumatized, fractured and (literally) insane. Divine scriptures warn us how to deal with these OTHERS , for man's awesome brain can be as great as it can fall into deep deep ...evil.Power; water, fire, the human brain, they can all cause greatness and life or disaster and death.
When we're talking about authority this should always be kept in mind. Intelligence, competence and divine scripture all lead to greatness;
Insanity, speculation and whim lead to despair.Therefore how one deals with the matter of authority is a cardinal issue in society and culture. And when divine scripture is subverted to service insanity, speculation and whim... all suffer and are lost.
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Peace,
My question is about who are those in authority among the God Alone Muslim's?
Following verse from the Quran commands Muslim's to obey
"Believers! Obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority among you..." (Qur'an 459)
Do God Alone Muslim's need to organise and accept some as those in authority?
How about Layth putting up a donation account and to start putting emphasis on gatherings?Thanks
Salaam/Peace Ervin,
in my Understanding, if we take it in broadest sense, first of all,
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15- And to AL-LAH prostrate (=i.e. obey, serve) all who are in the heavens and the earth, willingly and unwillingly,
as do their shadows in the morning and the evening.QURAN TESTAMENT 13/15
thereby, wherever we may be living on this Earth, we should obey those in authority of/in that Country, first of all,
in any matter, when/if it is approved by AL-LAH,but when/if what they do is Not approved by AL-LAH, in any specific matter, we should refrain from it,
in accordance with this most essential Verse here====================
59- O you who believe, obey AL-LAH and obey the Messenger (=i.e. QURAN) and those in authority among you.
But if you dispute in any matter, then you shall refer it to AL-LAH and HIS Messenger (=i.e. QURAN) if you believe in AL-LAH and the Last Day.
That is better/best and more/most suitable for knowing.QURAN TESTAMENT 4/59
this same Principle applies when/if all Believers come together and decide to choose "those in authority" among themselves,
ideally for a specific time, and by due consultation among themselves (=e.g. free voting) =42/38-39,but even after the election of "those in authority" among Believers, each and every Believer should have the freedom and Right
to refrain from something that "those in authority" may order them to do, if they deem it not appropriate and not approved by AL-LAH,
in Quran Testament.====================
12- O Prophet (=i.e. as the One in authority therein), if the believing females come to make allegiance to you
that they will never set up partners to AL-LAH, in no way,
and not steal, and not commit adultery, and not kill their children, and not fabricate any falsehood,and not disobey you in any matter which is recognized/righteous,
then you shall accept their allegiance, and seek Forgiveness of AL-LAH for them. Certainly, AL-LAH is Best-Forgiver, Most-Merciful.
QURAN TESTAMENT 60/12
thereby, if any Believer does not deem something as recognized/righteous (=ma'roof) according to QURAN
then he/she should have the Right not to obey "those in authority" among themselves in that specific matter.So when it comes to this specific issue you are asking about,
I believe, the Owner of this site may have the Right to ask for such voluntary contributions (=Quran Testament 9/60)
from all Believers here, but he canNot make it obligatory,so only those who deem it as recognized/righteous (=ma'roof) according to QURAN
could rightfully contribute to this Site by their such voluntary contributions (=Quran Testament 9/60),but those do not deem it as recognized/righteous (=ma'roof) according to QURAN
could rightfully refrain from it.Remain in peace/salaam.