Ibrahim's as words
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Dear brother, he thinks that he knows and he's trying to explain same to you. But, he doesn't know and he can't explain it to anybody. Bayan is on Allah swt, so He will bayan the Qur'an to whom He wills. I told you who are they, "cleaned ones", nobody else can get near the Qur'an. All we need is to read it, as we are ordered to (with behaviour), to think about it, as we are ordered to (with behaviour), to accept what we get (come closer) from the knowledge, as we are ordered to (with behaviour) and to believe in it with His 'izn, as we are ordered to (with behaviour).
I hope you saw live some man with the real knowledge and I hope you liked what you see.
Allah's bless and selam.
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When I will talk about the Sun in my native language, I will use all words and pronouns with masculine gender. And if it is conversation, you will translate them in your language by using inverted commas exactly what I have said without changing the gender. So is the case here, his quote is what he said in his language.
He referred to Sun by a masculine demonstrative pronoun. Allah the Exalted conveyed us the same what he uttered. But when Allah the Exalted referred to Sun, the pronoun is feminine because in Arabic the sun is feminine.
Besides that you are just speculating here, it has absolutely nothing to do with this.
He is referring to the sun as Rab, as he thinks the sun is his Rab and therefore the masculine form is used.
I really don't understand what's so difficult to understand about this.Here Ibrahim uses feminine for sun, because here he is not referring to the sun as his rab but to the sun as the sun. It has absolutely nothing to do with what language he spoke.
2258 -
Besides that you are just speculating here, it has absolutely nothing to do with this.
He is referring to the sun as Rab, as he thinks the sun is his Rab and therefore the masculine form is used.
I really don't understand what's so difficult to understand about this.Here Ibrahim uses feminine for sun, because here he is not referring to the sun as his rab but to the sun as the sun. It has absolutely nothing to do with what language he spoke.
2258If you overlook not the structure of sentences in both cases, there is no anomaly in both cases. Here, the pronoun in any language including English and Urdu would be without gender. And here see the difference in what sense Rabbi is used and in what sense Rabbi is used in the context of Sun. He did not use there Allah, Ilaha. No polytheist in the world calls any deity as Rabb. Only Pharaoh declared himself as Rabb in the extreme sense. Rabb is also used in a general sense, anything that nourishes, or the master. It has plural and a feminine also perhaps denoting housewife.
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You can talk with ignorant ones like this, but you know that you have a big problem in "haza Ekber".
Mazhar, and your not knowing this topic is very obvious, because Allah swt told us different then you are telling in 931, where plural of Rabb is used. So, others besides pharaoh are taking/claiming that they're rabb(s) (erbab). Please, do your homework.
hansolo, all male believers (mu'minoon) are my brothers.
Once more, Ibrahim a.s. told in the Qur'an (not in some book you're reading) that ALLAH IS COMING WITH THE SUN and when he (same man, Ibrahim a.s.) saw the Sun coming, he said HAZA RABB which means HAZA ALLAH, because Allah swt was coming with the Sun (as always), and then he said HAZA EKBER, which means ALLAHU EKBER, if you have a zerr of intelligence and you're not of rejectors.
But you can accept mysticism as your belief, I can't forbid it to you. I'll continue with following examples of Allah's friend, Ibrahim a.s., if He allows me to.If this is not clear to you, my brothers, then, for your sake, do sejdah a lot and ask for forgiveness and guidance, Allah swt is ghafuru-raheem.
Allah's bless and selam.
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Besides that you are just speculating here, it has absolutely nothing to do with this.
He is referring to the sun as Rab, as he thinks the sun is his Rab and therefore the masculine form is used.
I really don't understand what's so difficult to understand about this.Here Ibrahim uses feminine for sun, because here he is not referring to the sun as his rab but to the sun as the sun. It has absolutely nothing to do with what language he spoke.
2258You quoted this ayat and you still think that Ibrahim a.s. done shirk (even Allah swt told us that he never done shirk) and said that the Sun is his rabb? Unbelievable. Read this 2258 again, maybe you'll see that the Sun is not alone, it has One Who's coming with it.
Allah's bless and selam.
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Everywhere, to us to see Him, if we see, as Ibrahim a.s. saw. But to see Him we need to accept Him as our Rabb. And what "rabb" means?
Is there any word in lexicons you're getting knowledge from about it? Can you translate this word for us, please?
I'm sorry if that Sun erased all of His shadows for you. Please, till it's not too late, just do sejdah a lot and ask for forgiveness. My Rabb, Allah swt, is forgiving to whom He wills.
Allah's bless and selam.
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You quoted this ayat and you still think that Ibrahim a.s. done shirk (even Allah swt told us that he never done shirk)
That is what you say and not what I think.
and said that the Sun is his rabb? Unbelievable.
I did not say that, Ibrahim did.
"hatha Rabbi" means I think "this is my Rab", where hatha refers imo to the sun which he sees as his Rab and that's why imo masculine is used.Read this 2258 again, maybe you'll see that the Sun is not alone, it has One Who's coming with it.
Allah's bless and selam.
Who or what is this One?
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He is referring to the sun as Rab, as he thinks the sun is his Rab and therefore the masculine form is used.
I really don't understand what's so difficult to understand about this.Accepting anything/anybody besides Allah swt is shirk, right?
Ibrahim didn't say that the Sun his Rabb, you did. I explained million times that Ibrahim said that Allah swt is his Rabb. If you can't understand it, I'm sorry.One is Allah swt, if you read 2258 again you can see that Ibrahim a.s. said that "... indeed, Allah is coming with the Sun..." and he was shown Melakoot of the Heavens and the Earth, he had the knowledge about it. We don't have the knowledge, so we can claim by guessing that he said for the Sun that it's his rabb. But, maybe, if we get the knowledge about some of the celestial objects, we could notice that Allah swt said for His friend Ibrahim a.s. that he never done shirk, and that includes saying that anything/anybody else is his Rabb besides Allah swt.
Allah's bless and selam.
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Accepting anything/anybody besides Allah swt is shirk, right?
right
Ibrahim didn't say that the Sun his Rabb, you did. I explained million times that Ibrahim said that Allah swt is his Rabb. If you can't understand it, I'm sorry.
If you say something a million times then it becomes true?
One is Allah swt, if you read 2258 again you can see that Ibrahim a.s. said that "... indeed, Allah is coming with the Sun..."
I can not see that. Can you quote the verse and give the part were it says so a color.
and he was shown Melakoot of the Heavens and the Earth, he had the knowledge about it. We don't have the knowledge, so we can claim by guessing that he said for the Sun that it's his rabb. But, maybe, if we get the knowledge about some of the celestial objects, we could notice that Allah swt said for His friend Ibrahim a.s. that he never done shirk, and that includes saying that anything/anybody else is his Rabb besides Allah swt.
Allah's bless and selam.
RED He did, but it's not called shirk. Maybe your definition of shirk has to be revised.
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If you say something a million times then it becomes true?
I can not see that. Can you quote the verse and give the part were it says so a color.
RED He did, but it's not called shirk. Maybe your definition of shirk has to be revised.No, it doesn't... What I meant, and I'm sure you know, was maybe you haven't read all, so you can go back and read.
We should know that all the messengers came with the same message to the people. This happened in an event described in 364 also. And we can differ 3 "stages" of their message
- to be 'ibad only to Allah swt
- not to associate (do shirk) to Him anything/anybody
- not to take each others as Rabb (pl. used Erbab) besides Allah swt.
Do you think that 1) and 3) are not shirk? If we read 931 we can maybe understand that being 'abd to somebody/something else besides Allah is same as taking others as rabb (or erbab). But, if we read more and we think more we can maybe understand that all 3 listed are about shirk and they're reflection of 3 types of shirk
- to obey (be 'abd) somebody/something besides Allah swt, to take his/its commands against Allah's Law... as I would do what Allah swt told me, but I feel it's wrong so I won't do it
- to obey somebody with Allah swt to do something not because Allah's Law, but because it's somebody's else law/order too... as I'll behave good, but not just because Allah swt ordered me so, because it's what is accepted in my society as a good behaviour and Allah swt said so too
- to obey anybody blindly in "religion matters", without the knowledge about it... as I'm fasting till the sunset because it's night time as "ulema" said, but it's not what Allah swt said.
I hope you can find your own examples. If you can't you can ask and I'll find some time to think about it, if Allah swt wants so.
But, over all of these answers... it's not upto me to guide anybody nor to explain the Qur'an to anybody, I just wanted the people to think about Allah's Qawl, without anything added to it. I tried to tell about my experiance in thinking about these.
Allah's bless and selam.
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Salam brother Aladin
I have come to know that word Akbar is never used for Lord/Allah self but instead for things He Owns. For Himself Al-Kabeer is the Word.
Q1587 and 6933 He is Al-azeem his Quran/word is Al-azeem, just azeem is stuff/things under al-azeem.
If we go for the meaning in aya when Ibrahim says Akbaru=greater/bigger
Al-kabeer=The greatest -
Yes, my dear brother Furqan, Ekber is used with things He Owns (He Owns all He created).
But, Ekber is same or over El-Kebeer, because it's super-superlative. What does it means?El-Kebeer is relation to something else which is not El-Kebeer, but when Ekber is used without relation it means that it can't be compared with anything else.
I have to go back again... if it was for the Sun (HAZA EKBER) and let's say (which is wrong) that it can be accepted as regular in Qur'anic lisan (which is not), then Ibrahim a.s. made a mistake. How?- If he compared The Sun with kawkab and the Moon he should say El-Ekber, or El-Kebeer
- If he thought that nothing can be compared to the Sun, then he made a mistake also, because same people who believe that he made mistake believe that there're many of things we can see in the Skies for which the Sun cannot be Ekber (ie. stars).
Speaking about His Names... His Name is, for example El-Ghafur, but He's also ghafur, which is not same. But it all depends on the context, sometimes, as I said, what looks like comparative can be over superlative.
What I said for Ekber maybe can be understood if we think about His Wordsand
These words mean "the most Rahman of those who're rahman" and "the Best of those who are rahman". This is the way how to express superlative. But if it was said only Erham without adding er-rahman it would mean that nothing can be comperad in "being rahman" with Him, so there would be no need for comparision. Ekber was used because nothing and nobody can be compared with Him in that.
Maybe, you can try with reading all other ayats where these words were used.
Don't forget that Ibrahim a.s. was shown Melekoot of the Heavens and the Earth before this and he knew a lot more of us about the Heavens and the Earth. Could he be wrong about comparing? Not at all, he said Ekber for The One Who is Ekber.
We should also differ Ekber and El-Ekber, because it's not same, and, speaking of this, it's mentioned in 88th surah, which is good to think about the Heavens and the Earth also.
Allah's bless and selam.
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Salam brother
If Akbar =bigger/larger/greater it's still not the biggest/largest/greatest
In one of my previous posts I pointed out that kawkab are smaller than shams. If you search the word kawkab carefully in Quran you will get all ayaat/signs pointing to planets.
Kawkab in Quran don't have own light, are smaller than shams, are in the lower heaven/s, and will FALL* in end day/s and in this case smaller than shams hence shams bigger but not the biggest
Najm in Quran guide in dark/night, the Tariq/knocking/piercing/pulsar, will be OBLITERATED/put out/collapse or burstAkbaru<Alakbaru
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As I said, kawkab can't be "a planet", since the planets don't exist. But kawkab can be what we know as "a planet", if you understand. If we humans named something we see in the sky as Mars it can be one of kawakib, but what we were told about what we named Mars is not truth. Tariq is not "a pulsar" either, pulsars are fake (I thought same as you before, may Allah swt forgives me and all the believers).
Anyways, what I understood as kawkab is what we know as "falling stars" or "shooting stars" or "meteors", but I can be wrong since I haven't spent time on observing the Skies for a long time. If I get the knowledge I'm sure in it I'll try to share it here, if Allah wants.You didn't understand about Ekber, but maybe I don't know to explain it best. I'll try again...
Ekber can mean what you wrote and if you add anything else as comparision the words you used can be correct.
So, you could say, for example, "this is EKBER then that". I hope this is ok with your understand till now.
But, if you use only EKBER without adding anything to compare it, as "this is EKBER", then it becomes super-superlative, in the meaning as El-Ekber (which is superlative in Qur'anic lisan). I don't know if English language has this abbility, but we have to know that Qur'anic lisan is clear, and probably none of other languages is.
But over all of this, for the Sun it should be "hazihi kubra" (feminine form of "haza ekber" or probably "tilke kubra" ("that" instead of "this".
Can you say in English "This is larger."? But, without talking about anything else prior nor post these words.
Or, can you say for a woman, for example, "she's prettier"? Without adding "then ...". I don't know that this is possible in English, but I don't know English well.
I already talked about possible errors in thinking due to thinking in translations. We should know that Allah swt sent the Qur'an, but He sent its lisan also. As we can't imply anything in Qur'an we can't do it in its lisan either, we'll make an error.Maybe you should google for super-superlative just to know what is it about, if you still can't understand its usage.
Allah's bless and selam.
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Salam
Brother, Ibrahim did point to kawkab and Qamr before shams.
If I say this is(kawkab) my lord and than next I say this(Qamr) is my Lord and than I say this she(shams) is my lord he is bigger. Bigger than previously pointed to, but not THE BIGGEST"lord he is bigger" if had said "she(shams) is bigger(masculine)" that would be an error in language of Quran.
So the Inventor of al-Quran gets away in the art of langauge without using feminine for lord and also keep structure of language.
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You always have a problem in thinking, because you're thinking on something else.
The Sun can't be "he", because it's "she".
Allah swt is He and Allah is coming with the Sun, as same man Ibrahim a.s. stated in ayat I already quoted. So, whenever we see the Sun we should know that there's Allah swt Who is coming with it.
But, don't do sejdah to the Sun, do it to Allah swt. This is why many of the people took the Sun as their diety, they knew that Allah swt is there (here) and they started with performing their worship acts to Allah swt. When their offspring continued with the same, but without the knowledge, they thought their fathers are worshiping the Sun (the Moon...) and they made a shirk.
Ibrahim a.s., as a person who never done shirk, has best examples we can think about and get the knowledge about shirk, and many other topics. We just need to reject tefsirs and stories from ignorant ones and kadhiboon and to think about Allah swt Only and His ayats.
Allah's bless and selam.