Islamic State with Islamic Law - Is it Islam?
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drfazl
Peace,
You deffinately need to start to read Quran more. There are tons of laws in the Quran that God wants us to act upon and enforce.Heres one for beginners.
The fornicatress and the fornicator, flog each of them, a hundred stripes, and let not pity for them detain you in the matter of obedience to Allah, if you believe in Allah and the last day, and let a party of believers witness their chastisement.
Do you mind those provisos allah has made mandatory before executing the 100 slashes a very few of which I beg to mention here suchas as follows
- Be a believer in Allah. Before that you have to follow the ayats 3321 to know who allah is.
- Having known Allah you heart shall tremble in fear and you fall to the ground weeping as required in the ayat 82
- You will not advance before allah and His prophet, when you say out your prejudice as is required by the ayat 491
- You will be cautious and god fearing following the ayat 820
- Then you shall know what the Last Day means before believing in the last day.
- A muslim shall not indulge in slandering for they fear Allah. "Woe to every slanderer, defamer"
- 24 4-9 must be fully borne in mind before punishment.
- If one swears by Allah he is the most despised by Allah as allah makes it clear in various ayats such as 6811, and 24 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20 and so on.
A party of such believers must alone shall watch the chastisement
Brother Commando_X, since I am a beginner in your opinion, I humbly request you to consider my plea. Is it not mandatory that the people with above nature, each having the full wisdom on all the 8 important considerations that they might bear in their mind, body and soul - and a party of such muslims alone shall watch the punishment? And again, are you not aware, that in the absence and witness of such party of muslims who are the believers in Allah and the last day and who apply quran wholly in their day to day life, none can execute the chastisement? Other 'muslims' shall not watch the punishment is also a provision in that ayat, if you have read the Book with earnestness!
Who are a party of such pious ones and who are to judge that they are! Don't you think it is not fitting for man to decide on who a muslim is except the All- Knowing? Or, kindly tell me who is the Best of judges? How are you going to choose a party of MUSLIMS?
regards.
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drfazl,
Agree with you largely ... on this thread wink
Progod also totally agree with your posts here
No islamic state because of human nature. If human has the power he will most certainly abuse it. If he does so in the name of the God it is even worse. I truely feel that islam is a personal matter. The day that "people will embrace the Gods religion in throngs" may get us close of such an utopy of a true islamic state, but I'd rather not take the chance...
Salaam to all, Elke
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Organization not State.
Organization, Mutual Patronage, Consultation, Discipline, Support, Internal Betterment, Programs that reach out for the betterment of others, Branches, Jurisdiction, Koran as Law and guider of policy, Representation, Self-sacrifice for the benefit of the Community that espouses the Organization of God's loyalists.
If you are thinking state, you are thinking wrong.
When has a church or an Internations organization needed a state.
Think Grand Organization.
Think what if the U.N. has citizens, official members who abided by its law. Citizens that transcended the bounderies of every country, but who had a common citizenship, a common bond and a common creed and the organization and self-sacrifice to make it a moving force in the world.Think Bigger than State
Godbless,
Anwar -
GOd blessings,
The grand union of God's loyalists is a theocracy and it is a government.
We are just not so concerned with territory. Rather with people, with members. It is members only. And once you enter you are bound to the laws that you agreed to follow. You accept the punishments to the laws that you agreed to follow. None of it is forced. All of it is voluntary. Just as the believers sacrifice and give for the sake of God. We give of ourselves, our property etc. for the sake of God. Our properties belong to each other, as our support belongs to each other & our resources belong to each other. But we understand that we should never give so much that our own needs are sacrificed. We are concerned with our defense. But modern states are limited whereas we are are boundless. Secondly, we are not concerned with modern states so much as long as they do not infringe upon our God-given rights, so long as they don't oppress us. We don't need to establish boundaries for our territories, and every person that belongs to this theocracy wants to, he or she is not born into it. We should do everything that a modern state does, minus the territory. We should arrange the policies and laws and beliefs that we are to live by. We should promote their acceptance amongst each other and propagandize the good of them, making them seem attractive and right.
We should strenghten communication between our different communities. We should establish plans of defense, plans for community outreach, plans for education of ourselves, plans for improvement, schemes of representation, when representation is needed and plans for community relations.The only thing is that even though we may flock together in certain places we are not concerned with gaining or controlling territory. The only territories we should be concerned with are protecting the places that we call home and providing new homes when necessary. As long as these places are protected we have no beef. We should also be concerned with self-sufficiency, as not depending on others and only depending on each other will lead to great successes in this world.
Godbless,
Anwar -
Dear brothers, can there be an islamic state wherein muslims alone have all the rights - according to the Book? Can there be anything like islamic law when the Book says there is no compulsion in islam? What is your say in this?
peace .
in an islamic state the koranic laws will be for everyone, muslim or non muslim . for example ,a non muslim adulterer, thief or murderer will be punished just like a muslim would be .
peace . -
peace .
in an islamic state the koranic laws will be for everyone, muslim or non muslim . for example ,a non muslim adulterer, thief or murderer will be punished just like a muslim would be .
peace .That is wrong, unjust and plain old compulsion. They follow a different religion and therefore different laws and should not be subject to such laws.
Godbless,
Anwar -
Hi,
What I see promoted here are exclusive groups of one type or another. This is against Islam. All the people around the Globe must be included.
However, the existing boundaries of countries must be respected, as well as the laws in those countries, the languages and monetary systems as well.What is being discussed is, in fact, a state within the state. I can not think of any territory in the world willing to accept that.
For all practical reason there must be some kind of territory, as a global center at least.
This center will also have to include a monetary and banking system, totally void of any interest, and imaginary values.
Now, where is such a territory readily available, and how should it be protected from evil powers.
It will, all in all, be a very delicate and complicated matter.Nobody should own any property; a home will therefore have to be a rented property on lease from the global center. Same is true for any other property.
The global center must be constituted as something like a UN, World Bank etc., everything combined into one unit, not with countries governments as members, but conforming groups within the various countries.
The global center must be governing the laws that all other followers around the World should uphold, unless they are in conflict with their local needs and laws.
Well, just some thoughts strewn around.
Best regds,
Ali Omar
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peace .
in an islamic state the koranic laws will be for everyone, muslim or non muslim . for example ,a non muslim adulterer, thief or murderer will be punished just like a muslim would be .
peace .That is wrong, unjust and plain old compulsion. They follow a different religion and therefore different laws and should not be subject to such laws.
Godbless,
Anwarpeace anwar .
this is not wrong . should people in ur country not be punished for their crimes ? or would criminal not b punished because he would give the excuse that " this(crime) is not considered a crime in my religion "?!!we are not compeling anyone to believe in God .
Had your Lord willed, all the people on earth would have believed. Do you want to force the people to become believers?
they will only be punished if they trangress the boundaries set by God in his book of law . God does not say that only the people of certain religion are to be punished . the laws in the koran are for all mankind .
peace .
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Complusion in 'Deen' includes compulsion in 'law'. Deen includes 'law.' It is a comprehensive term that includes 'philosophies, belief systems, creeds, religions, orders, policies and laws.'
Forgive my use of the term Koranist but it fits my purposes here. Here it means 'one who adheres to the Koran.'
In a Koranist society where there are people who are non-Koranists among them there are 4 cases that are listed by number
- A Koranist commits a crime against a Koranist
2.A non-Koranist commits a crime against a Koranist
3.A Koranist commits a crime asgainst a non-koranist
4.A non-koranist commits a crime against a non-koranist
Solutions according to case numbers are as follows
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Koranic policy is used to resolve the issue
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Koranic policy that speaks about the enemies of koranists is to be used to resolove the issue.
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Koranic policy that speaks about koranists and thier relations with non-koranists is to be used to resolve the issue.
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The non-koranists are left to resolve the issue between themselves as they see fit; unless they ask for arbitration from koranists. In which case koranic policy about peace-making/arbritration is to be used to resolve the issue.
It violates the Koranic policy of 'laa ikraaha feedeeni' to impose Koranic policy onto those who do not choose it.
Godbless,
Anwar