Homosexuality LGBTQI and the deen
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peace,
Bender, it is a fact no-one is born "gay" (or "heterosexual" for that matter).
for the most part I agree with that. I have always pointed out the those labels, hetero homo are just that, labels to put people into boxes. No one is boxable, in the sme way that no one is predestined philantropist or usurper...Although for different people it may be easier to become this or that.
On the othe hand there are indeed people who physiollogically are explainably attracted to same sex through hormonal or organic configuration.
It ha become a dogma that homo are born, that, as I say, may be true for a few, but I do know and I have seen it personally that people can turn "homo" or "hethero". Psychology has a lot to do with that and early and very early infancy experiences also exlain many things. When we get into that of course, we may find that in fact some people even if it is not inborn cannot avoid not being this or that, but that does not happen because it is innate, but because life experiences may have conditionned them to the point that they cannot escape it, and the only way to cling to emotional balance is to make do with what one has and has had and not what one chose if one were at point zero and we are never at point zero.
For instance many women turn lesbians, not because they are born, but because they have given up trying to make a loyal an real partnership with a male and still cling to the ideal of pertnership.
I am tired of hearing the typical "when I was a child I liked to play with dolls" from the mouth of male homos... I was a girl and I did not like to play with dolls, I hated them, it seems since the time I tried to see what they had inside and found they were empty and that, I was told, was the first time I had a doll in my hands.
Anybody can become a homo if pushed hard enough. Some do not need to be pushed, just morbo will do it.
At fault many times is not the person who opts for homo but the society which forces roles into persons which in fact cripple those persons, ll under the pretext of feminity or masculinity.
Ironically, many of those who decry homosexuality are also the ones who push decidedly to it by insisting on "feminity" and " "masculinity" dogmas like "women are like this and that" and "men are like this or that" or a man is man and so many social disciplining along sex lines.
Salaam
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peace,
Bender, it is a fact no-one is born "gay" (or "heterosexual" for that matter). They have done multiple studies on genetically identical twins, one of whom is homosexual and the other heterosexual.
The latest science (afaik) considers it a combination of nature/genes AND nurture/environment.
Red Does this not imply that it is inborn?
There are tens of theories and there is no real consensus yet in the scientific world.What I know is that people do not choose what kind of sexual preference they have (I am not talking about the "experimental people" so there must be something in the body/mind/soul/whatever that triggers this preference.
Blue I don't believe this has anything to do with the origin. I think that nurture/environment can work as a stimulator or katalysator for something that is already there.
Anybody can become a homo if pushed hard enough. Some do not need to be pushed, just morbo will do it.
I can't speak for every hetero but I know for sure that there is nothing in this world that can push me to become a homosexual
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Not now, may be when you are older and beyond the more experimental age wherever that age ends, and like we all do agree there are people more prone than others to everything. People more set in their ways, wrong or right than others, will be less likely to change to nything else, but on the other hand sex is in the mind, attraction is in the mind and there is a lot that can be done to anybody's mind.
Salaam
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If homosexual acts are allowed Abdul Hadi, then can you explain what the verses below mean and why God chose "the two men who commit it from among you" instead of like previous verse "tohse of your women who commit lewdness"?
415
And those of your women who commit lewdness, you shall bring
four witnesses over them from among you; if they bear witness,
then you shall restrict them in the homes until death terminates
their lives, or God makes for them a way out.
416
And the two men who commit it from among you, you shall
trouble them. If they repent and reform, then leave them alone.
God is Redeemer, Merciful.Then can you also explain why in the story of Lot, we are told the men approach the men instead of women (clearly this is relationship and not rape as God forbids approaching a woman sexually if not married)
It's VERY clear that God isn't saying rape women instead of men with verses below, but He's saying about men having relationship with other men instead of women. You are clearly astray to promote homosexual acts!
26165 ?Do you approach the males of the worlds??
26166 ?And you leave what your Lord has created for you of mates? You
are an intrusive people!?
26167 They said ?If you do not cease O Lot, you will be among those
driven out.?
26168 He said ?I am in severe opposition to your acts!? -
Greetings and Peace, all group
If homosexual acts are allowed Abdul Hadi, then can you explain what the verses below mean and why God chose "the two men who commit it from among you" instead of like previous verse "tohse of your women who commit lewdness"?
415
And those of your women who commit lewdness, you shall bring
four witnesses over them from among you; if they bear witness,
then you shall restrict them in the homes until death terminates
their lives, or God makes for them a way out.
416
And the two men who commit it from among you, you shall
trouble them. If they repent and reform, then leave them alone.
God is Redeemer, Merciful.Then can you also explain why in the story of Lot, we are told the men approach the men instead of women (clearly this is relationship and not rape as God forbids approaching a woman sexually if not married)
It's VERY clear that God isn't saying rape women instead of men with verses below, but He's saying about men having relationship with other men instead of women. You are clearly astray to promote homosexual acts!
26165 ?Do you approach the males of the worlds??
26166 ?And you leave what your Lord has created for you of mates? You
are an intrusive people!?
26167 They said ?If you do not cease O Lot, you will be among those
driven out.?
26168 He said ?I am in severe opposition to your acts!?Regarding 415-16...
If a person violates a marriage (adultery) in order to pursue sex outside the marriage with a man or a woman, then they are wrong. The Qur'an is complete, and notes that whether with the same sex or a different sex, adultery is wrong. If the adultery can be proven with witnesses, the adultery is also a crime. That's the simple explanation. Consider what can and can't, ISA, be reformed.26165 talks about approaching people, and the context is a lustful approach. People aren't approaching each other to extend greetings or shake hands here! ) It isn't right for a man to approach a woman or a man lustfully.
26166 talks about leaving spouses (adultery).
While the word homosexual is never used in the Qur'an, the word translated as lewdness/immorality is used--usually for adultery.
http//corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=fH$#(4153)
I don't promote sexual acts of any type--that's private business between two consenting spouses...and most people don't seem to need my help anyway! I will state that I find no evidence that homosexual acts are forbidden between consenting married-to-each-other adults.
ALLAH knows best.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
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I will state that I find no evidence that homosexual acts are forbidden between consenting married-to-each-other adults.
hahahahahahahaha.....
i find no evidence that sex with camel with the help of ladder is not forbidden in case if you slip and get your bone break from height than its a different matter... so do it on sand of desert for precautionary measures...
but dnt look other camels with the eyes of lust becoz its called cheating ... so stay with just one camel and you can not sacrifice it to get the halal meat hahahaha rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl
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too easy, Maybe ok for you but for society not cool. hmm
haha look its not that easy ...
as expected you fail to understand ...yeh its bad for society who cares as long it(stealing) will give me benefit ... how its bad for me can you prove it.... ?
i think you will again get confuse in understanding the question here is a link in which some members get confused too once so have a look on it...
it will save your and mine time...
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9607830.msg386833#msg386833
police voodoo not in a mood to see police lol
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Being/Rab/Is Who Is (or whatever you call The One who creates) doesn't make mistakes.
yes God never mistakes
but people do and they will continue to do it unless azab like nation lot will make them upside down &
I really don't understand your link between gays and murderers/thieves/rapists/etc.
- No one is born a thief/murderer/rapist, being gay is not a choice
- Killing/raping/stealing/etc disadvantages others, being gay does not disadvantage others
What exactly is the crime for a born gay person that we have to judge him/her?
who told you being gay is not a choice?
being straight or unstraight is always a choice... so seek help from God to guide us on straight path.. 1/6did you see any new born baby doing gay pornography in his early age?
how it started .... from awareness ?thief /muder/rapist all are by nature what they are ... its another matter the colors they show it after ages... not when they born..
everybody who is supporting this shit are giving irrerelevant/illogical/poor/weak kind of examples in which you can continue to point out their mistakes ...
nobody force a rapist to rape
nobody force a killer to kill
nobody force a thief to steal
nobody force anybody to do sex with tree, dolls , animals or same sex...its always choices and paths...
BOLD ask from the parents of gay boy or lesbian girl how they are sufferring...
a mother of thief /killer will be more in peace than being a mother of gay.. ( i already told you that thing bring two pacakages in one time)
shame + sin... = height of ignorance
when i asked you about the disadvantages/uncomfort of wife of a gay you keep yourself silent there... and again you are standing on the same argument what have no support from quran whatsoever , but its opposite..
and height of ignorance to blame things to God what he never order..
the killer / rapist/ thief /gay are all the products of God but its not faulty products or Gods fault but they use their authority/will power in the laws what are against the will of God ... simple is that .. what so hard to understand it...
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Many people are born homosexual. It cannot be remedied. What they can do is abstain their whole life. They will seldom function normally in a heterosexual relationship.
Be well
Amenuel -
yes God never mistakes
but people do and they will continue to do it unless azab like nation lot will make them upside down &
What mistake exactly? Being gay?
who told you being gay is not a choice?
At what age did you decide to become hetero?
being straight or unstraight is always a choice... so seek help from God to guide us on straight path.. 1/6
yes I can remember when I was 4 years old I stood in front of the mirror and choose to be hetero
did you see any new born baby doing gay pornography in his early age?
I also have to see the first new born doing hetero pornography in his/her early age, whatever that may mean.
how it started .... from awareness ?
How did it start with you?
thief /muder/rapist all are by nature what they are ... its another matter the colors they show it after ages... not when they born..
This is simply totally nonsense.
There are some people who are born mentally not 100% and can start killing at some point but even those people are exempt from "normal" law.everybody who is supporting this shit are giving irrerelevant/illogical/poor/weak kind of examples in which you can continue to point out their mistakes ...
What do you mean? Do you not support that God has created homosexuals? Are you challenging God in His decisions?
nobody force a rapist to rape
nobody force a killer to kill
nobody force a thief to steal
nobody force anybody to do sex with tree, dolls , animals or same sex...its always choices and paths...
I know you think you have given some very nice examples with your comparisons between homosexuals and murderers, but you should seriously consider some other examples because your comparisons are simply ridiculous.
BOLD ask from the parents of gay boy or lesbian girl how they are sufferring...
I know that acceptation is hard sometimes, but it's NOT the fault of the daughter or son that he/she is gay.
There are also some people who suffer when they get a girl, they feel ashamed, sometimes they even kill her to save their family honor.a mother of thief /killer will be more in peace than being a mother of gay.. ( i already told you that thing bring two pacakages in one time)
Not a mother would be more in peace but YOU would be more in peace.
You are not a mother, you know nothing about what it is to be a mother and you will never know in this life.
And if you don't have kids then you do not even know what it is to be a father, and even if you were one then you do not speak for all fathers.shame + sin... = height of ignorance
yes 1+3=8
and 2+4=1
what is your point?when i asked you about the disadvantages/uncomfort of wife of a gay you keep yourself silent there
I can't remember you asked me this, maybe I overlooked it but I can answer you now.
I don't know what the disadvantages are of a woman married with homosexual man, you have to ask that woman not me.... and again you are standing on the same argument what have no support from quran whatsoever , but its opposite..
Why do I need the quran for this? I know without looking at the quran that there are gays, I did not create them but He did, I am not in argument with The One who created homosexuals.
And you and me understand the quran so differently that it is in my opinion useless to bring in the quran.and height of ignorance to blame things to God what he never order..
the killer / rapist/ thief /gay are all the products of God but its not faulty products or Gods fault but they use their authority/will power in the laws what are against the will of God ... simple is that .. what so hard to understand it...
RED Products of shaytaan, don't compare God with shaytaan.
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Nobody is born homosexual or heterosexual, save the comparatively few who indeed have biological conditions which make them be attracted to sme sex. Most people who turn to same sex ONLY because of not being attracted to the other sex turn out so, when it is not a choice, because of things that are not inborn, but experienced mostly at a very early age, and that is something due to environment, be it the parents relationship be it child abuse, be it whatever, but though it my not be through choice it is not inborn either.
And it is also conditionning that makes sex with same sex unattractive, because sex, like food at the right time is always attractive, which does not mean that one must engage in it, or with the different sex either for that matter, if his or her moral and personal choices tell the person to abWith stain from it.
With this, of course, I am not saying that one should or may engage in sex with any sex anybody. Not at all. If i feel liek eating ten full plates of may favourite food, it does not mean that I am going to do it. There is such thing as common sense, the sense of deency and self preservation and the sense of one's intimacy preservation.
Intimay is a treasure to be shared only with the persons we really trust and respect and feel trusted and respected by them.
Sex today is very, very, very cheap and of little value, but it does not have to be like that.
Salaam
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Nobody is born homosexual or heterosexual, save the comparatively few who indeed have biological conditions which make them be attracted to sme sex. Most people who turn to same sex ONLY because of not being attracted to the other sex turn out so, when it is not a choice, because of things that are not inborn, but experienced mostly at a very early age, and that is something due to environment, be it the parents relationship be it child abuse, be it whatever, but though it my not be through choice it is not inborn either.
If we can not point out some aspects at birth it doesn't mean they are not there.
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Greetings and Peace, all group
Regarding 415-16...
If a person violates a marriage (adultery) in order to pursue sex outside the marriage with a man or a woman, then they are wrong. The Qur'an is complete, and notes that whether with the same sex or a different sex, adultery is wrong. If the adultery can be proven with witnesses, the adultery is also a crime. That's the simple explanation. Consider what can and can't, ISA, be reformed.26165 talks about approaching people, and the context is a lustful approach. People aren't approaching each other to extend greetings or shake hands here! It isn't right for a man to approach a woman or a man lustfully.
26166 talks about leaving spouses (adultery).
While the word homosexual is never used in the Qur'an, the word translated as lewdness/immorality is used--usually for adultery.
http//corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=fH$#(4153)
I don't promote sexual acts of any type--that's private business between two consenting spouses...and most people don't seem to need my help anyway! I will state that I find no evidence that homosexual acts are forbidden between consenting married-to-each-other adults.
ALLAH knows best.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
Most of what you say isnt right. We already have rules for adultery in later chapters.
And you didnt answer why it says "the two men". Its really about homosexuals
Then you continue to say "lustful". No, because we are told they approach men instead of women, meaning God is saying about relationships. Would God say to approach women instead of men lustfully? But we already know the rules regarding approaching women outside marriage.
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If we can not point out some aspects at birth it doesn't mean they are not there.
So what? If you can't point them at birth but you can point what comes after... it is the same as everything else what you know you know and what you do not know you do not know, you may want to know something, but the fact that you do not know cannot be patched up supposing it is such as you would or would not have it be if you could find out.
On the other hand, I have no interest whatsoever in this thing being one way or another. People along life become many things, it is no less a reality because they did not become that before birth.
If all we want is to patch the whole thing and lock it in a drawer, then fine do it and forget about it. You do not need to find anything about it any more. The question is that I have personally seen how people become something they were not nor was it latent or whatever bright ideas people may have to assert tht you are born with it. It is ok with me if people like to be something because they are born with it and do not like it if it is not at birth but develops later, they should rennounce also any other development.
At any rate this whole question about homo hetero is completely contrived and turned into a test as to whether somebody is for or against, very scientific indeed. I am not interested in that nor in judging any one to give him or her a pass or to deny such pass. But it is not honest to disregard facts because they do not fit into an ideology.
"Homosexuals" are just as "heterosexuals" some are decent and discreet people and some are lusful and deboucherers, because they are neither homosexuals nor heterosexuals they are persons and they have developed the way they have developped just as each one of us develops as he or she in her circumstances can develop, to turn it into a question that because it is at birth God's wants it, and I suppose if it was not at birth God would not want it? It is not honest for those cases obviously that ar not at birth. As I have previously said, some conditions are by birth, biologially determined. But most are developmentally determined by many different circumstances matched with the particular individuality of each person.
I have to say that as a woman I have always been very well treated by "homosexual" gentlemen. Some have gone out of their way to give me support and help. And any time I would rather be with a "homo" man who treats me lake a lady than with "hetero" who does not show those qualities that I appreciate in masculine company or friendship. Of course not all "homos" I have met respond to that description, but that goes to show again that we are not talking about labels but about individuals, persons. And if a gentleman turns out to be a "homo" it is no less of a gentleman because of that. Being manly is not a question of sex-exercicing but of character.
I say this not to expose my personal feelings, but to expose that having good feelings for something does not have to turn into following whatever is the most comfortable and fashionable view of any question at any given moment.
And again, sex is a private matter.
With the people of Lut that did not seem to be understood. Sex was not a private matter but a matter of collective and coercing handling.
Salaam
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yeh its bad for society who cares as long it(stealing) will give me benefit ... how its bad for me can you prove it.... ?
It appears I am not the only one who does not understand you. police
Why not put your stealing, raping, killing to the test and let us know the results and benefits.
(they say experience is the best teacher) handshakepolice
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I find this very sad that people spend so much of their time hating on others because of their choice to have consensual sex with an adult of the same gender. I have spent an inordinate amount of time within the LGBTQI+ community in my lifetime and have met people who have been very good friends of mine. I refer to two friends in particular who are truly remarkable human beings. They are examples of outstanding beacons of humanity to anybody. They just so happen to enjoy sex with other men as opposed to women. That doesn't make them bad people - in fact their mothers are extremely proud of each of them. How can you take a human being and take a part of them which does not affect anyone else, and equate it to sins such as murder. Where is the rationale in that.
I could never believe in a God who denies his own creation and foresakes it. Where is the compassion, mercy, beneficence and benevolence in that.
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What mistake exactly? Being gay?
hmm what mistake being thief, killer, rapist exactly...?
At what age did you decide to become hetero?
it you who claim its not by choice its inborn babies...
yes I can remember when I was 4 years old I stood in front of the mirror and choose to be hetero
good memory...
so you choose hetro sexual its was not inborn with you same like homo choose..I also have to see the first new born doing hetero pornography in his/her early age, whatever that may mean.
look at the reply above this quote
This is simply totally nonsense.
There are some people who are born mentally not 100% and can start killing at some point but even those people are exempt from "normal" law.? whats this ... and what nonsense...
thief /muder/rapist all are by nature what they are (thats what i said) add homo in it too
What do you mean? Do you not support that God has created homosexuals? Are you challenging God in His decisions?
i know God created everything ... even the evil
but i m against the evil and its something very natural ... and you are supporting it.. thats the visible part of our discussion and in light of this you decide who is challaging who...I know you think you have given some very nice examples with your comparisons between homosexuals and murderers, but you should seriously consider some other examples because your comparisons are simply ridiculous.
that make me remember a saying ,, the people who lives in the house of glass should b careful while throwing stones on others...
all of your examples are even more illogical... and ridiclous...
I know that acceptation is hard sometimes, but it's NOT the fault of the daughter or son that he/she is gay.
yes exactly its hard to accept always but its not the fault of killer thief adulterer and rapist becoz they are what they are?
its the fault of God who make them like this or its the fault of evil that he invent the evil...? human being is very innocent bravo
There are also some people who suffer when they get a girl, they feel ashamed, sometimes they even kill her to save their family honor.
hmm dnt worry they will be asked and God will show them what they use to do
818 When the little girl that was buried alive is made to ask
819 "For what crime was she killed?"and also from people who are trying to disfigure the nature ...like homo ,bisexual ,animal sexers , phidophile all of them...
Not a mother would be more in peace but YOU would be more in peace.
may be you and me are differ in thinking ,,
you may like if you are in peace but dosent matter about mother...
but i will not b in peace if my mother suffer due to me...You are not a mother, you know nothing about what it is to be a mother and you will never know in this life.
And if you don't have kids then you do not even know what it is to be a father, and even if you were one then you do not speak for all fathers.future discussion may bot apply ... but from the experience of parents of homo and gay i feel they are embarrassed at highest level and dnt even want to share and accept that truth... i dnt know why even in the countries where this is legal to have gay lesbian relationship... people still embarrased about it , including their parents... double standards of life on other words
I can't remember you asked me this, maybe I overlooked it but I can answer you now.
I don't know what the disadvantages are of a woman married with homosexual man, you have to ask that woman not me.yes once i asked from her , and she start crying and told me a story of first night of her wedding...
her husband told her i will give you one surprise and one shock at same time she say really what then my love...
suddenly husband went outside and bring four boys inside the room... she get shocked ... but suddenly he give her a surprise ,, darling its not for you its for me ... hahahahaha
first wife thinks something terrible is going to happen but she relaxed after knwoing his husband is gay... yay
Why do I need the quran for this? I know without looking at the quran that there are gays, I did not create them but He did, I am not in argument with The One who created homosexuals.
if you look OP this is justified by quran to have a relationship with homo legally...
so if you dnt want to bring quran inside then may b the discussion was on different level...
and about the one who created , he also created lot of other things what people do...
almost all sins/wrong doings are going on from early stages of human being... and small to large level intrestingly in every community... presently too..but i think the evils are created by evil so God should not be blame ... even in the case of homo... got it huny... lol
And you and me understand the quran so differently that it is in my opinion useless to bring in the quran.
yehs exactly ..thats why i was advising the poster not to bring quran inside for supporting this shit... but he is lucky some clever forum members seems inline with this fahish act... not surprising he is successful in it... he is an intelligent poster anyway... rotfl
RED Products of shaytaan, don't compare God with shaytaan.
why you didnt paint red on gay hahahahaha....
yeh all are the products of devil but God is the creator of everything including shaytaan ...so here is the advise
1131 Say "I seek refuge with the Lord of the rising dawn,"
1132 "From the evil of what He has created,"thats why due to the evil of homosex and lot of other things there is a nation get banged by some next level handsome angels hahahaha a beautiful lesson
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Greetings and Peace, all group
My comments in red.
Most of what you say isnt right. We already have rules for adultery in later chapters.
And the other rules cover adultery between heterosexual adulterers. The Qur'an, being complete, in these ayat cover adultery between homosexual adulterers.
And you didnt answer why it says "the two men". Its really about homosexuals
See above answer. It is about homosexuals--but not primarily about homosexuality. It is what the homosexuals are doing and not the homosexuality that is the bigger picture.
Then you continue to say "lustful". No, because we are told they approach men instead of women, meaning God is saying about relationships. Would God say to approach women instead of men lustfully? But we already know the rules regarding approaching women outside marriage.
Were they approaching to sell fresh produce? That it was lustful is key, that spouses are forgetting their marriage to pursue lust is the main idea and that it was towards other men is description.
Look at 2187 and compare it with 22165. Notice any glaring differences?
2187 It has been made permissible for you during the night of fasting to approach your women sexually. They are a garment for you and you are a garment for them. GOD knows that you used to betray your souls so He has accepted your repentance, and forgiven you; now you may approach them and seek what GOD has written for you. And you may eat and drink until the white thread is distinct from the black thread of dawn; then you shall complete the fast until night; and do not approach them while you are devoted in the temples. These are the boundaries of GOD, so do not transgress them. It is thus that GOD clarifies His revelations to the people that they may be righteous.
26165 "Do you approach the males of the worlds?"
Also for comparison
6151 Say "Come let me recite what your Lord has forbidden for you that you should not set up anything with Him; and do good to your parents; and do not kill your children for fear of poverty, We provide for you and for them; and do not come near immorality, what is public of it and private; and do not kill the life, as GOD has forbidden this, except in justice. That is what He enjoined you that you may comprehend."
ALLAH knows best.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
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It appears I am not the only one who does not understand you. police
Why not put your stealing, raping, killing to the test and let us know the results and benefits.
(they say experience is the best teacher) handshakepolice
yes becoz understandings of things are achieved by experience ... so you may find a boyfriend to get a experience , its actually an advice so that you can also tells us how you lose and gain something after that relationship... ! its a work for community you may reward by 72 virgin boys in heavens hahaha just kidding...
BOLD no brother you are not the onlyone... group most of the times members take time when i ask questions at first they look easy but when they answer it they realsie aww it was hard actually... in some cases it takes 10 pages of posts to make people understand what was my question rotfl
RED even if you put anything in test logically its not harmful for you... you can further discuss this thing with me ... and let me know what role you want me to put in then i wll tell you.. look thats y i was suggesting you to read that post what i linked .. you probably will get your answers there