Homosexuality LGBTQI and the deen
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I fully express my distaste for the perversion brought forth by the user Abdul-Hadi.
You are not a sincere student. Shame on you.
You did not address or cite all the verses pertaining this topic. You initially only cited what was in support of your bias. Following your own desire, you only addressed them after someone else already cited them. Shame on you.
You keep talking about homosexuals, although the Quran never used that term.
I see right through you. Weak is your effort and weak is your heart. Shame on you.
What Quranic term translates to homosexual?
I'll wait for your response....
None then why do you, use this term? Because you want to distort the understanding.
Fine define homosexuals if you will, Allah speaks of men approaching men so your definitions and assumptions are utterly irrelevant. Shame on you.Quran speaks of men approaching men with lust (that is an act not merely a desire or mental condition) it is the approaching that is the transgression.
Those who claim that it was just rape are equally as bereft of knowledge
Where in Quran do you read that? Stop inventing lies
Quran is fully detailed, do you have to do gymnastics and extrapolate distorted meaning from where there is none?
Allah perfected The Book He is All-Able to communicate to you if rape was the issue, in fact Allah in His Book does speak of women being forced into sexual acts.
780-81
The companions of Lut are clearly described to be approaching the men INSTEAD of the women.
This describes preference not rape.They are said to be committing excesses. There is no other thing they are accused of doing in these verses except for approaching men instead of women.
Shame on you.
Your perversion of the understanding should be sufficient enough for your ban in this forum and if a I weren't busy studying for my exam I would bullet point every ridiculous comment you have made in your indeed satanic rambling
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Greetings and Peace, all group
Look up the definition of homosexual. Homosexuality has to do with inclination. Anyone who grasps this indisputable fact will understand that nobody can be condemned for an unacted upon inclination, even if homosexual acts can be proven to be against the deen. Nobody has been able to satisfactorily prove that homosexual acts ~are~ against the deen, and cling to bias and tradition--what they found their ancestors doing. There are so many ayahs downcrying following ancestors that I won't bother to post them.
It is indeed true that just because mosquitoes engage in homosexual acts that mosquitoes are not a reason to justify homosexual acts among humans. However, we are commanded to observe and consider creation, and homosexuality is part of creation--and very very widespread (not just mosquitoes, but ALL known sexually reproducing species).
226 GOD does not shy away from putting forth the example of a mosquito, or anything above it. As for those who believe, they know that it is the truth from their Lord. As for the rejecters, they say "What does GOD intend with this example?" He strays many by it, and He guides many by it; but He only strays by it the wicked.
3190 In the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the difference between the night and the day, are signs for those who possess intelligence.
3191 Those who remember GOD while standing, and sitting, and on their sides, and they ponder over the creation of the heavens and the earth "Our Lord you have not created this without purpose, glory to You, spare us the retribution of the Fire!"I wonder at the people who attack creation because it is not in their personal likes. Homosexual acts are prevalent throughout creation--do you second guess the Almighty? Think before you call an aspect of creation perverse or disgusting.
If this thread is too frank for a person's taste, nobody is forced to read it and it is not needlessly explicit. The topic is clear. The discussion is sometimes less so, with name calling and facile posts in the lines of "its icky so it isn't allowed" or "its this way because I say so." Bring your evidences. This is supposed to be free-minds, not small-minds. For those that honestly engage in discussion, this was not intended towards ya'll; otherwise, if the shoe fits, wear it!
4911 O you who believe, let not any people ridicule other people, for they may be better than they. Nor shall any women ridicule other women, for they may be better than they. Nor shall you mock one another, or call each other names; miserable indeed is the name of wickedness after attaining faith. And anyone who does not repent, then these are the transgressors.
780-81 describes an ACTION and not just an inclination. Does anyone deny that it describes a LUSTFUL action?
For those who engage in personal attacks and bad manners with deliberation, know that it is totally against the deen, regardless of your motives.
If you had been created homosexual, how would you contend with the bias, hatred, and persecution? How would you wish to be treated? ALLAH has created homosexual humans, and they are largely being treated unjustly, even among those who should know better.
For those who persist in being bad to other humans, enjoy this life. ISA, you will come to know--in one world or the next.
ALLAH knows best.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
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killing is also a part of creation...
all animals kills eachother for feeding themselves..
humans also engagge in killing from very start of life...robbery is also a part of creation
rape , invasion, stealing, dishonesty all are the part of creation...
whats about a serial killer, is it a fault of God if he is mentally sick and start doing killing people just for the sake of fun..?
when u asked him , he will say its in my nature..
same go with serial rapist, serial thief, and so on..
the reference you are giving is just showing how weak is your claim..
are you sure the mosquito verse is giving hint to humankind that homosexulity is allowed? common brother be loyal with yourself atleast...
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Greetings and Peace, all group
Look up the definition of homosexual. Homosexuality has to do with inclination. Anyone who grasps this indisputable fact will understand that nobody can be condemned for an unacted upon inclination, even if homosexual acts can be proven to be against the deen. Nobody has been able to satisfactorily prove that homosexual acts ~are~ against the deen, and cling to bias and tradition--what they found their ancestors doing. There are so many ayahs downcrying following ancestors that I won't bother to post them.
It is indeed true that just because mosquitoes engage in homosexual acts that mosquitoes are not a reason to justify homosexual acts among humans. However, we are commanded to observe and consider creation, and homosexuality is part of creation--and very very widespread (not just mosquitoes, but ALL known sexually reproducing species).
226 GOD does not shy away from putting forth the example of a mosquito, or anything above it. As for those who believe, they know that it is the truth from their Lord. As for the rejecters, they say "What does GOD intend with this example?" He strays many by it, and He guides many by it; but He only strays by it the wicked.
3190 In the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the difference between the night and the day, are signs for those who possess intelligence.
3191 Those who remember GOD while standing, and sitting, and on their sides, and they ponder over the creation of the heavens and the earth "Our Lord you have not created this without purpose, glory to You, spare us the retribution of the Fire!"I wonder at the people who attack creation because it is not in their personal likes. Homosexual acts are prevalent throughout creation--do you second guess the Almighty? Think before you call an aspect of creation perverse or disgusting.
If this thread is too frank for a person's taste, nobody is forced to read it and it is not needlessly explicit. The topic is clear. The discussion is sometimes less so, with name calling and facile posts in the lines of "its icky so it isn't allowed" or "its this way because I say so." Bring your evidences. This is supposed to be free-minds, not small-minds. For those that honestly engage in discussion, this was not intended towards ya'll; otherwise, if the shoe fits, wear it!
4911 O you who believe, let not any people ridicule other people, for they may be better than they. Nor shall any women ridicule other women, for they may be better than they. Nor shall you mock one another, or call each other names; miserable indeed is the name of wickedness after attaining faith. And anyone who does not repent, then these are the transgressors.
780-81 describes an ACTION and not just an inclination. Does anyone deny that it describes a LUSTFUL action?
For those who engage in personal attacks and bad manners with deliberation, know that it is totally against the deen, regardless of your motives.
If you had been created homosexual, how would you contend with the bias, hatred, and persecution? How would you wish to be treated? ALLAH has created homosexual humans, and they are largely being treated unjustly, even among those who should know better.
For those who persist in being bad to other humans, enjoy this life. ISA, you will come to know--in one world or the next.
ALLAH knows best.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
If you want to be a homo or trans stop bothering people about it or trying to justify it with religion. Do your $h! T in private and stop being so annoying.
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if you want to learn about the current azab of homsexuality then you will amazed to find out the curse of AIDS first generated in gays...
and interestingly the cure is not discovered yet due to the fact that scientist are unable to find the antivirus that kill the virus of aids... is it not a clear hint from God...
but make sure dnt try justify wishful thinking under the cover of religion you cannot prove it for sure..
may God guide you to the right path..
although its not my concern to ask a personal question but i feel you are enggage in this curse if i am not wrong..
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Greetings and Peace, all group
My comments in red.
if you want to learn about the current azab of homsexuality then you will amazed to find out the curse of AIDS first generated in gays...
I would indeed be amazed...if it were true! AIDS isn't a curse, but a disease caused by HIV. It didn't generate in homosexuals, the source has been found to be chimpanzees; harvesting bush meat likely caused the initial infection. Promiscuity, contaminated blood transfusions, and shared hypodermic needles among IV drug users tend to be primary causes of spreading HIV. One of the reasons why homosexuals are sometimes promiscuous is that society tends to reject them and makes it harder for them to have a monogamous relationship.
http//www.theaidsinstitute.org/node/259
It is true that gay men are more likely to be HIV positive than straight men, in fact this is true of several diseases. It is also true that vast numbers of HIV positive people are heterosexual. While we're on the subject of truth, let me share another truth a scientific study found that homosexual men had FEWER INFECTIONS of nongonococcal urethritis (NGU) (14.63% vs. 36.40%, p < 0.001), herpes genitalis (0.93% vs. 3.65%, p < 0.001), pediculosis pubis (4.30% vs. 5.35%, p < 0.005), scabies (0.42% vs. 0.76%, p < 0.02), and genital warts (1.68% vs. 6.69%, p < 0.001) than heterosexual men.
https//www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6893897
and interestingly the cure is not discovered yet due to the fact that scientist are unable to find the antivirus that kill the virus of aids... is it not a clear hint from God...
Modern medicine has found ways to fight the virus to a standstill, and may in time ISA cure the disease. Unless the creation of a cure, ISA, is likewise a "hint" from the Almighty, this argument doesn't seem to have much merit.
but make sure dnt try justify wishful thinking under the cover of religion you cannot prove it for sure..
Wishful thinking would be proclaiming something prohibited that is not. If it isn't prohibited, it is allowed.
may God guide you to the right path..
although its not my concern to ask a personal question but i feel you are enggage in this curse if i am not wrong..
A curse? Where did this "curse" come from? )
The veracity of my statements, most of which are direct quotes from the Qur'an or facts derived from observing creation, are unchanged by my real or perceived sexuality.
ALLAH knows best.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
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AIDS part was just an example.. indicating medically having a relation with same sex is dangerous...
When cases of AIDS started to emerge in the USA the majority of cases were among men who have sex with men (homosexuals), haemophiliacs and heroin users. Adding Haitians to this list made the 'Four-H Club' of groups at high risk of AIDS
http//www.avert.org/professionals/history-hiv-aids/origin
smoking is also injurious to health but people still use it... but quran did not forbid smoking isnt it?
one more link
The widely accepted theory is that HIV/AIDS originated in a monkey or chimpanzee virus that "jumped species" in Africa. However, it is clear that the first AIDS cases were recorded in gay men in Manhattan in 1979
http//www.rense.com/general68/gayex.htm
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If you want to be a homo or trans stop bothering people about it or trying to justify it with religion. Do your $h! T in private and stop being so annoying.
Then you should also stop with bothering people with your believes on every subject, including this post of you, believe what you believe in private and stop being annoying.
Homosexuality is just a subject like any other which can be discussed, if some views on it bothers you then maybe it's better to stay away from such discussions. -
Greetings and Peace, all group
My comments in red.
AIDS part was just an example.. indicating medically having a relation with same sex is dangerous...
Promiscuity is dangerous, especially when (pardon the pun) coupled with unprotected sex. Regardless of sexuality, anal sex also carries additional risks.
When cases of AIDS started to emerge in the USA the majority of cases were among men who have sex with men (homosexuals), haemophiliacs and heroin users. Adding Haitians to this list made the 'Four-H Club' of groups at high risk of AIDS
http//www.avert.org/professionals/history-hiv-aids/origin
Yes, this is also true. Homosexuals were more at risk due to increased rates of transmission due to anal sex and promiscuity, hemophiliacs were exposed to HIV in blood transfusions before adequate protective measures were implemented, heroin users swapped contaminated needles and were more likely to engage in promiscuous behavior, and Haitians were disproportionately exposed to HIV from unhygienic blood transfusion equipment.
smoking is also injurious to health but people still use it... but quran did not forbid smoking isnt it?
That's true; smoking is dangerous and not forbidden. It doesn't mean that smoking is a good idea. However, a person has a choice before deciding to smoke and having to wrestle with addiction, a homosexual does not choose to be homosexual.
one more link
The widely accepted theory is that HIV/AIDS originated in a monkey or chimpanzee virus that "jumped species" in Africa. However, it is clear that the first AIDS cases were recorded in gay men in Manhattan in 1979
http//www.rense.com/general68/gayex.htm
Although the link is sketchy, the information is factual.
I don't disagree with any of the points made above; they are true. They still neither show that homosexuality nor homosexual acts are Qur'anically prohibited. That isn't the same as an endorsement. The Qur'an is silent on the matter. There is absolutely no reason to hate on homosexuals nor to turn them away from the deen.
ALLAH knows best.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
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Greetings and Peace, all group
I don't disagree with any of the points made above; they are true.
They still neither show that homosexuality nor homosexual acts are Qur'anically prohibited. That isn't the same as an endorsement. The Qur'an is silent on the matter. There is absolutely no reason to hate on homosexuals nor to turn them away from the deen.ALLAH knows best.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
my brother,
i never hate you, even if you are athiest.. its totally your actions/deeds and only you are responsible...there is no point of hating you , or hating any homosexual , or hating any disbeleiver...
people claim themself muslims but still rob steal, murder,
people claim they are true but everysingle day they lie more than you imagine..lolthere are lot of other things nobody is fully perfect everybody have their weakness ..
this weakness did not automatically make him disbeleiver ...its just consider as wrong/unrighteous thing..but if you are bringing quran in it then you must be very careful...
if you consider the lust is not a good act and God dnt like fahash act or immorality then homosexuality is obviously an act of immorality/shamefulness/unrighteousness/lewdness/fahisha/unnaturalso i dnt think anywhere in quran these types of act are supported by God..
for just an example if i want to prove lie is not an immoral/bad act and i want to prove it from quran
i ll give you an example of abraham event when he breakk the idols...
or if a person is inside my house want his life spare from killers and i lied to save his life...things we need to understand through research and reasons of mind what God bless us .. so i again advise you to recheck your things alltogether once through each and every filter ...
God bless you
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Greetings and Peace, all group
Being homosexual is not a license to ignore what is clear. The Qur'an is clear that it is neither okay to be promiscuous, nor to have extramarital sex (outside of narrow circumstances, not important here), nor to approach others out of lust.
The Qur'an is also clear that it is unlawful to forbid what is not forbidden, to be bad to others, to be unjust, and a host of other things.
For any "gray areas" we have our own understanding and our own consequences. There is a time and place for violence, a time for lies, and a time for many things, ISA.
5332 They avoid major sins and immorality, except for minor offences. Your Lord is with vast forgiveness. He has been fully aware of you since He initiated you from the earth, and while you were embryos in the wombs of your mothers. Therefore, do not ascribe purity to yourselves; He is fully aware of the righteous.
I'm reminded of Musa/Moses (peace upon all prophets)...
2815 And he entered the city unexpectedly, without being noticed by the people. He found in it two men who were fighting, one was from his clan, and the other was from that of his enemy. So the one who was from his clan called on him for help against his enemy, whereby Moses punched him, killing him. He said "This is from the work of the devil; he is an enemy that clearly misleads."
2816 He said "My Lord, I have wronged my soul, so forgive me." He then forgave him, for He is the Forgiver, the Merciful.
If any person follows what is clear and strives towards goodness, it should follow that they are to be welcomed in the deen the same as anybody else. We should endeavor to invite others to the deen, and to better ourselves. If you want ALLAH to love you more, try not to love anyone less than another.
I don't want anyone to look at any of my posts and follow what I write. I want people to look at the evidences and make their own decisions. I want people to be aware of the harm that they do to themselves and others when they act without thinking, or think narrowly. Pushing another person down hardly pulls oneself up. Creation is vast, life is short, and we will all be Judged. If these words have helped anyone anytime, ISA, they are not wasted.
ALLAH knows best.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
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Homosexuality does still not hurt someone else, except if you would rape them homosexually. If could however be included in sex which has no productive purpose and is purely performed for physical pleasure.
Be well
Amenuel -
homosex does not hurt anybody , bravo
hetrosex also does not hurt anybody..
speaking lie does not hurt somebody
borrow a credit money from bank and didnt give it back does not hurt anybody
buying a cell phone and making false claims two times a year does not hurt anybody...and lot of more things .....
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Then you should also stop with bothering people with your believes on every subject, including this post of you, believe what you believe in private and stop being annoying.
Homosexuality is just a subject like any other which can be discussed, if some views on it bothers you then maybe it's better to stay away from such discussions. 54/37Agreed, thanks Bender. @All, this is only a discussion within forum rules,
for those who find this discussion abhorrent no participation is required.
My point is this The people of prophet Lot were engaged in something
that none had engaged in before, therefore there were no homosexuals
before the time of Lot? Or is the reference to "none had engaged in before"
a reference to something else? hmmpolice
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Hawk, exactly, I've raised that up previously on the board...it does seem like it's something other than just your run of the mill same-sex action.
But what thoroughly baffled me was this
homosex does not hurt anybody , bravo
hetrosex also does not hurt anybody..
speaking lie does not hurt somebody
borrow a credit money from bank and didnt give it back does not hurt anybody
buying a cell phone and making false claims two times a year does not hurt anybody...and lot of more things .....
What does buying a cell phone and making false claims two times a year even mean?
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Agreed, thanks Bender. @All, this is only a discussion within forum rules,
for those who find this discussion abhorrent no participation is required.
My point is this The people of prophet Lot were engaged in something
that none had engaged in before, therefore there were no homosexuals
before the time of Lot? Or is the reference to "none had engaged in before"
a reference to something else? hmmpolice
Salam,
The only people that were saved from the people of Lot were the family of Lot, except his wife.
1.They were a rejecting people; so this could explain why the women of the people of Lot were not saved; we aren't told if they were homosexuals too, unless I missed it.
2.All males (or majority, a huge majority) were homosexuals.Is there a city where all males approach men instead of women? No there isn't. The only city/town was of the people of Lot.
Salam
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But what thoroughly baffled me was this What does buying a cell phone and making false claims two times a year even mean?
its mean , when u purchase a mobile and falsely claim it lost and get a new one .. does not hurt anybody .. so this act is allowed .or not.. can we give ourself satisfaction that what we did is nothing wrong...?
same the people who think if an action does not hurt someone its mean we are allowed to do it.. without any fear of consequences...
like illegal sex, dishonesty and other stuff..
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the acts of nation lot as per quran are
1 approaching men
2 murder/rape
3 robbery on highwaysmurder and robbery were acts already done by lot of nations and individual
so we left with option 1 ...although if we want to go with the flow with brother hawk then a question arise again what was the act?