Did God really speak to Moses directly?

NK

Hi All,

It is a common belief among muslims that God did speak to Moses directly and Moses heard God's voice. To support their claim, they always present Chapter 20 verse 12 and Chapter 7 verse 143 verses, where "Takleema" and "Kalamahu" were used only for Moses. No other prophet was mentioned in the book to whom those two words ever used.

In Chapter 20 verse 12 where God was speaking in 1st form of verb which clearly shows that there is no angel in between and God is speaking behind the partition.

Chapter 42 verse 51 tells you

" And it is not for any human being that Allah should speak to him except by revelation or from behind a partition or that He sends a messenger to reveal, by His permission, what He wills. Indeed, He is Most High and Wise. (51)"

From behind the partition is only specific for Moses. Is that correct?

Could anyone please explain it to me.

NK

Adam_The_Warner

Hi All,

It is a common belief among muslims that God did speak to Moses directly and Moses heard God's voice. To support their claim, they always present Chapter 20 verse 12 and Chapter 7 verse 143 verses, where "Takleema" and "Kalamahu" were used only for Moses. No other prophet was mentioned in the book to whom those two words ever used.

In Chapter 20 verse 12 where God was speaking in 1st form of verb which clearly shows that there is no angel in between and God is speaking behind the partition.

Chapter 42 verse 51 tells you

" And it is not for any human being that Allah should speak to him except by revelation or from behind a partition or that He sends a messenger to reveal, by His permission, what He wills. Indeed, He is Most High and Wise. (51)"

From behind the partition is only specific for Moses. Is that correct?

Could anyone please explain it to me.

NK

An English translation of the Torah - Exodus 2522 ?And there I will meet with thee, and I will commune with thee from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubims which are upon the ark of the testimony, of all things which I will give thee in commandment unto the children of Israel.? 3311 And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle.

An English translation of the Quran - 33 He sent down to you the Book with the truth, authenticating what is between his hands; and He sent down the Torah and the Gospel. 566 And if they had upheld the Torah and the Gospel, and what was sent down to them from their Lord, they would have been rewarded from above them and from beneath their feet. From among them is a pious nation, but most of them only do evil.

Abdul-Hadi

Greetings and Peace, all group

7143 So when Moses came to Our appointed time, and his Lord spoke to him, he said "My Lord, let me look upon you." He said "You will not see Me, but look upon the mountain, if it stays in its place then you will see Me." So when his Lord revealed Himself to the mountain, He caused it to crumble; thus Moses fell unconscious. When he awoke, he said "Glory to You, I repent to You and I am the first of those who believe."

ALLAH knows best.

peace

Abdul-Hadi

NK

Peace all,

Thanks Adam the Warner and Abdul-Hadi for your answers.

English is not my first language, therefore i am not very good in explaining things in English but still i will try to give my point of view on this topic.

As we all have already known that God doesn't have any mouth or vocal cord and according to Chapter 42 verse 11, there is nothing like unto him and voice also comes under this. When verses of Quran tells us that God is the light of Earth and Heaven which doesn't mean in literal form but in metaphorical form. God's hand in Quran also not literal but metaphorical form.

In the same way we can not assume that Prophet Moses heard God's voice behind the partition.

Also in Chapter 4 verse 163, God told Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) that he was revealed in the same manner as other Prophets were revealed and Moses also included in them. Therefore based on those Quranic evidences, it is clear that God spoke to Moses in the same way as he spoke to other Prophets and Moses was not special.

God has already mentioned in Chapter 42 verse 51 that there are three ways of communicating with humans.

Revelation (example mother of Moses and companion of Jesus(PBUH)
Behind the partition (example dreams)
Sends a messenger (example Gabriel)

I hope it make sense.

Peace
NK

MissMarple77

Peace,
I often asked myself in which way God spoke to the ancient prophets. And why doesn't he seem to speak anymore to people nowadays? I thought people in general were perhaps quite different from us in our modern time. With a connection we nowadays rarely have. Prophets in ancient times were often killed, as the Quran says. But they were not called mad. On the other hand the Quran suggests that Prophet Mohammed was indeed called mad. Because this were not the ancient times anymore and awareness was already declining. Now I found a very interesting article from R. D. Laing which explains exactly that difference between nowadays and earlier times

http//laingsociety.org/biblio/transexperience.laing.htm

He also mentiones a veil, a partition
"One enters the other world by breaking a shell or through a door through a partition the curtains part or rise a veil is lifted. It is not the same as a dream. It is "real" in a different way from dream, imagination, perception or fantasy. Seven veils seven seals, seven heavens."

I think the reason therefore why God speaks from behind a partition is clear. It would destroy the person, like the mountain in front of Moses which crumbled to dust.

And most important
"Nowhere in the Bible, for example, is there any argument about the existence of gods, demons, angels. People did not first "believe in" God they experienced His Presence, as was true of other spiritual agencies. The question was not whether God existed, but whether this particular God was the greatest God of all, or the only god; and what was the relation of the various spiritual agencies to each other. Today, there is a public debate, not as to the trust the worthiness of God, the particular place in the spiritual hierarchy of different spirits, etc., but whether God or such spirits even exist, or ever have existed."
...
"There is no doubt, it seems to me, that there have been profound changes in the experience of man in the last thousand years, In some ways this is more evident than changes in the patterns of his behavior. There is everything to suggest that man experienced God. Faith was never a matter of believing He existed, but of trusting in the Presence that was experienced and known to exist as a self-validating datum. It seems likely that far more people in our time neither experience the Presence of God, nor the Presence of His absence, but the absence of His Presence."

Christiandaw

It is my new knowledge of this website, and it comes in handy.

imrankhawaja

@ missmarple

peace!

its an intresting idea to observe the human behaviour in ancient times

an example in the era of moses when a group of people witness a direct proof from God through a messenger of God present in same time is a lucky thing itself which appears impossible at this stage of life

even after observing and looking evthing with their own eyes from the magicians of pharoah to the parting of sea they still disbelieve and plan to kill the messenger of God ?

comparing to the person at present age who wills to get died just in the name of religious legends without knowing or witnessing the truth about the matter

its true human being is changed a lot

owlwithbow