Review of 5:33-34 Needed
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I know 533 has already been discussed. But the verse 534 makes it little troubling.
533 Indeed, the penalty for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive upon earth corruption is none but that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from opposite sides or that they be exiled from the land. That is for them a disgrace in this world; and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment,
534 Except for those who return before you apprehend them. And know that Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.
534 makes 533 sound like we are being told to give punishment to enemies of Allah and messenger. But 533 describes all the things disbelievers did to Prophets and their followers.
Can someone please look at in 534? How to interpret it?
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read from 5/27 ,, it will give u better understanding of context
its strange book...
if u read with the perception of killer it will give u diff meanings
if u read with the perception of victim/saviour of life it will give u diff meanings too... -
534 makes 533 sound like we are being told to give punishment to enemies of Allah and messenger. But 533 describes all the things disbelievers did to Prophets and their followers.
I recommend reading the notes on www.quranix.org for this verse.
In any case, can one wage war against the messenger if they no longer exist?
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read from 5/27 ,, it will give u better understanding of context
its strange book...
if u read with the perception of killer it will give u diff meanings
if u read with the perception of victim/saviour of life it will give u diff meanings too...The official understanding of the verse contradicts plenty of other verses. 527 is definitely one. But I apologize for not understanding the context.
I recommend reading the notes on www.quranix.org for this verse.
Thanks for the link. I am kinda not understanding why the repentance has to happen before the trend starts.
In any case, can one wage war against the messenger if they no longer exist?
Of course no. But if we say we follow the messenger by following the Quran then sectarians can insists that the verse is valid even after his death for those who wage war against Islam.
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But if we say we follow the messenger by following the Quran then sectarians can insists that the verse is valid even after his death for those who wage war against Islam.
If so, sectarians may have setup a false equivalency fallacy
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obey God and messenger = obey Quran
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wage war against God and messenger and strive for corruption in the land = wage war against Islam
Also, you will note, that in terms of practical application, (1) is much more clear and well defined.
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obey God and messenger = obey Quran
Disobeying Quran = waging war on God and messenger
So those who do not acknowledge Quran as authentic (at least as common man interprets it) are waging war against God?
Be well
Amenuel -
So those who do not acknowledge Quran as authentic (at least as common man interprets it) are waging war against God?
Yes.
I've known individuals who had no scholarship in Quranic studies but they made their own effort in studying and understanding the Quran. At their disposal are just a few copies of various translations. They never come to the conclusion that sectarians have especially call for extremism and they are respectful of other faiths.
The Quran is just a book. One who follows it in accordance to the rules inherent in it are truly those who follows the rasul and god. As opposed to one who does not, is going against the rasul and god.
opposing Quran = opposing God = against god = war with god = pointless
it goes back to your teaching of reincarnation - again and again and again until its futile. If its one life or many life times its the same, the difference is inherent in the individual - its already known to god who is and who is not - who is saved and not - by the choices they make - the outcome is irrelevant - the choices are important.
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Well, the question is whether that is truly what it says.
Your Allah is clearly a very primitive one and I would say you are being misled by that book. Just look at the book for God sake. Totally unintelligible.
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Depends on what kind of Arabic phrase you are referring to. But I have problems expressing myself freely in this forum due to warnings so it might be best not to comment anything.
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Well, the question is whether that is truly what it says.
Your Allah is clearly a very primitive one and I would say you are being misled by that book. Just look at the book for God sake. Totally unintelligible.
I don't know whose Allah is primitive, maybe you assumed i was following one. Literally, opposing Allah = war against Allah = is just pointless and leads to failure. Your findings will be the same as you dissect and reinterpret the Quran. Funny, despite being unintelligible the findings are just the same. And the more I read from the forum, those who argue most and find a lot of troubling issues with the Quran is because they failed to adhere to the Quran's basic rules of engagement. Those who gave up and says Quran is completely useless are those who gave up on themselves because they fail to follow simple instructions laid out in the Quran. So they go the hard way only to find themselves back to the Quran and its simplicity.
In many ways I do not disagree with your findings (I only dislike your usage of christian/judaism reference of father because it contradicts the Quran). I only find reincarnation as something not clear to me based on references from the Quran and whether it is clear or not OR whether it is or not - reincarnation is not an issue to salvation because what is certain is one needs to make good the chance given (no matter how many times and in one lifetime god gave countless chances until your dying breath).
And if you are a messenger of god sent down to put the record straight there is no new book for your usage and reference except the Quran - well Im not here to proclaim your messengership (thats between you and god).
The Quran's teachings are so simple and straightforward it becomes an issue to most and most will leave it aside. Some will dig so deep to justify self interest until the point of no return and cause oppression to others. So current problems faced in the muslim world are mostly due to those fueling self interest whilst the key word that should be a general guide is "to avoid oppression" especially when issuing fatwas.
There is no mystery to be unravel EXCEPT the mystery of man trying to be more than what he is. And in every example laid out of prophets and good men and women in the Quran there is no example where those people were trying to be more than what they are ie they were just being good humans and they became good examples.
MOF, I don't know what the confusion about???
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..............534 Except for those who return before you apprehend them. And know that Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.
534 makes 533 sound like we are being told to give punishment to enemies of Allah and messenger.
But 533 describes all the things disbelievers did to Prophets and their followers.Can someone please look at in 534? How to interpret it?
Salaam/Peace Reel, and All,
here is my basic understanding of these Verses
and that most critical verb therein===============
33- The just recompense of those who wage War (=yuhariboona this verb always specifically refers to
"actual/physical War," throughout the Quran Testament, here 5/64 & 8/57 & .....)-- against
AL-LAH and HIS Messenger (=i.e. Quran Testament),
and thus seek to "make corruption" (=fasaad it specifically refers to mass murdering of the humanity/people and
destruction of the nature/crops therein 2/205) on Earth, is thatthey may be killed, or crucified,
or that their hands and feet be cut off from alternate sides, or that they may be banished from the land;(*because that every evil-act may adequately be recompensed with the like of it (=42/40-43)
so if those aggressors killed such innocent and peaceful people (=60/8 & 4/114 & ......) and destroyed the nature
when they unjustly initiated War against AL-LAH and HIS Messenger (=i.e. Quran Testament) above,
they may adequately be killed in the same manner, and if they crucified such innocent and peaceful people (=60/8 & 4/114 & ......)
and destroyed the nature they may adequately be crucified in the same manner, and so on ..., above)--that is a disgrace for them in this world, and in the Hereafter --(when/if they never repent and reform themselves
till the very last moment of their normal life-span here 4/17-18)-- they will have a great Retribution (=i.e. which will be
adequately in such an exact similar/same manner therein 40/17, 40).34- Except for those who repent (=i.e. regret and immediately refrain from committing such atrocities above,
and reform themselves)-- before you execute (the recompense) unto them (=taqdiroo alayhimthis same verb, for example, refers to the execution (of recompense) unto prophet Jonah (=Naqdira alayhi)
when he sinned therein and thus consequently thrown into Darkness (for a specific period of time) as a just Recompense
therein 21/87,or it refers, for example, to the execution (of recompense) unto such an arrogant Aggressor (=Yaqdira alayhi) when he does
such evil-acts (=2/205 & 85/4-10 & ...) therein and thus eventually thrown into Hellfire as a just Recompense
therein 90/5, 20)and so, if any of those Aggressors above thus openly repents and greets the believers with "Peace" (=4/94)
even at the moment just before the recompense would be executed unto them therein (=min qablu an taqdiroo alayhim),
"they may/should/must be forgiven" (=4/94 & 42/40-43)--(because) you should absolutely know that AL-LAH is (always) Best-Forgiver, Most-Merciful.
(=25/68-72, 73-76)QURAN TESTAMENT 5/33-34
Whatever I said that may be perfectly Correct and Right above is from AL-LAH,
and whatever I said that may be totally mistaken and wrong above is from my own self (shortcomings 34/50).AL-LAH knows Best.
Remain in peace/salaam.
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Salaam/Peace Reel, and All,
here is my basic understanding of these Verses
and that most critical verb therein===============
33- The just recompense of those who wage War (=yuhariboona this verb always specifically refers to
"actual/physical War," throughout the Quran Testament, here 5/64 & 8/57 & .....)-- against
AL-LAH and HIS Messenger (=i.e. Quran Testament),
and thus seek to "make corruption" (=fasaad it specifically refers to mass murdering of the humanity/people and
destruction of the nature/crops therein 2/205) on Earth, is thatthey may be killed, or crucified,
or that their hands and feet be cut off from alternate sides, or that they may be banished from the land;(*because that every evil-act may adequately be recompensed with the like of it (=42/40-43)
so if those aggressors killed such innocent and peaceful people (=60/8 & 4/114 & ......) and destroyed the nature
when they unjustly initiated War against AL-LAH and HIS Messenger (=i.e. Quran Testament) above,
they may adequately be killed in the same manner, and if they crucified such innocent and peaceful people (=60/8 & 4/114 & ......)
and destroyed the nature they may adequately be crucified in the same manner, and so on ..., above)--that is a disgrace for them in this world, and in the Hereafter --(when/if they never repent and reform themselves
till the very last moment of their normal life-span here 4/17-1-- they will have a great Retribution (=i.e. which will be
adequately in such an exact similar/same manner therein 40/17, 40).34- Except for those who repent (=i.e. regret and immediately refrain from committing such atrocities above,
and reform themselves)-- before you execute (the recompense) unto them (=taqdiroo alayhimthis same verb, for example, refers to the execution (of recompense) unto prophet Jonah (=Naqdira alayhi)
when he sinned therein and thus consequently thrown into Darkness (for a specific period of time) as a just Recompense
therein 21/87,or it refers, for example, to the execution (of recompense) unto such an arrogant Aggressor (=Yaqdira alayhi) when he does
such evil-acts (=2/205 & 85/4-10 & ...) therein and thus eventually thrown into Hellfire as a just Recompense
therein 90/5, 20)and so, if any of those Aggressors above thus openly repents and greets the believers with "Peace" (=4/94)
even at the moment just before the recompense would be executed unto them therein (=min qablu an taqdiroo alayhim),
"they may/should/must be forgiven" (=4/94 & 42/40-43)--(because) you should absolutely know that AL-LAH is (always) Best-Forgiver, Most-Merciful.
(=25/68-72, 73-76)QURAN TESTAMENT 5/33-34
Whatever I said that may be perfectly Correct and Right above is from AL-LAH,
and whatever I said that may be totally mistaken and wrong above is from my own self (shortcomings 34/50).AL-LAH knows Best.
Remain in peace/salaam.
Thank you for the response. But consider the following
Prophet Isa was taken for crucifixion. In the Quran, we do not find Allah telling his followers to do the same to those who called for it.
Pharaoh also wanted to do the same along with cutting hands and feet. But Prophet Musa wasn't commanded to do the same to him.Moreover, if we think from the disbelievers' point of view about the verse, then we have to come to conclusion that they were doing nothing wrong by opposing the Prophets. They were merely trying to save their religions/ways.
Well, the question is whether that is truly what it says.
Your Allah is clearly a very primitive one and I would say you are being misled by that book. Just look at the book for God sake. Totally unintelligible.
Would you also take a look at the verse? Would love to see how you would interpret it.
I think hanslan is pointing out not obeying the laws of the Quran is equal to waging war against Allah and his messenger. If I oppress you then I am waging war against the message.
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Thank you for the response. But consider the following
Prophet Isa was taken for crucifixion. In the Quran, we do not find Allah telling his followers to do the same to those who called for it.
Pharaoh also wanted to do the same along with cutting hands and feet. But Prophet Musa wasn't commanded to do the same to him.Moreover, if we think from the disbelievers' point of view about the verse, then we have to come to conclusion
that they were doing nothing wrong by opposing the Prophets. They were merely trying to save their religions/ways.Salaam/Peace Reel,
in my understanding, first of all, for every --Abrahamic-- Religion (=i.e. Jews and Christians and Muslims)
our Lord AL-LAH has ordained different set of Rules/Judgments/Decrees that they should follow
according to their Scriptures (=i.e. TORAH and GOSPEL and QURAN) thereinQURAN TESTAMENT 5/44-45 & 46-47 & 48 = 5/68-69
And so, what we should follow in this regard according to QURAN TESTAMENT (=5/33-34),
I have tried to clearly and openly present it in my previous post above.But before following this Clear and Perfect QURANIC Commandment above (=5/33-34),
I believe we should absolutely be doing everything Right, first of all,
according to QURAN TESTAMENT, here===============
256- There will be no Compulsion (=la Ikraah) in the Religion; .........(*So, every believer is responsible only to clearly deliver the Message to all peoples (=16/82-83),
but if they do not accept it --(and many/most of the peoples would not accept it =12/103)--
it shall never be imposed unto them =10/99,
so then, they may always follow their own ways, freely, as much/long as they wish.)8- AL-LAH does not prohibit you from those who do not "Fight" you (=i.e. "Qitaal" actual/physical "Fight"
because of your Religion, nor drive you out of your homes,
that you deal kindly with them and be equitable to them. For AL-LAH loves the equitable.(*So it is a Responsibility upon every truthful believer to live in such Peace and Harmony with all peoples,
no matter what they believe in, or they may not believe in anything at all,
this kind of totally amicable and equitable relations above must be maintained with all of them,
and such total Freedom & Peace & Harmony among all peoples must be advocated and followed by
every truthful believer, worldwide, first of all.QURAN TESTAMENT 2/256 = 60/8
Only after these most essential and important Commandments of AL-LAH above
are truly and perfectly observed by all believers,
if anyone starts a physical/actual "War" (="Qitaal" against this kind of truly peaceful and truthful believers above,
and if they do to them this kind of barbarism and savagery (=i.e. killing them, crucifying them, dismembering them, etc.)only then this Clear and Perfect Commandments of AL-LAH here (=5/33-34)
should thus be observed in this Rightful manner
I have tried to clearly and openly present it in my previous post above. (=42/38-39-40-41-42-43)Remain in peace/salaam.
Whatever I have said that may be perfectly Correct and Right is from AL-LAH,
and whatever I have said that may be essentially or partially mistaken or wrong
may only be from my own self (shortcomings forgetfulness, hastiness, etc.) (=34/50) -
Salaam/Peace Reel,
in my understanding, first of all, for every --Abrahamic-- Religion (=i.e. Jews and Christians and Muslims)
our Lord AL-LAH has ordained different set of Rules/Judgments/Decrees that they should follow
according to their Scriptures (=i.e. TORAH and GOSPEL and QURAN) thereinQURAN TESTAMENT 5/44-45 & 46-47 & 48 = 5/68-69
And so, what we should follow in this regard according to QURAN TESTAMENT (=5/33-34),
I have tried to clearly and openly present it in my previous post above.But before following this Clear and Perfect QURANIC Commandment above (=5/33-34),
I believe we should absolutely be doing everything Right, first of all,
according to QURAN TESTAMENT, here===============
256- There will be no Compulsion (=la Ikraah) in the Religion; .........(*So, every believer is responsible only to clearly deliver the Message to all peoples (=16/82-83),
but if they do not accept it --(and many/most of the peoples would not accept it =12/103)--
it shall never be imposed unto them =10/99,
so then, they may always follow their own ways, freely, as much/long as they wish.)8- AL-LAH does not prohibit you from those who do not "Fight" you (=i.e. "Qitaal" actual/physical "Fight")
because of your Religion, nor drive you out of your homes,
that you deal kindly with them and be equitable to them. For AL-LAH loves the equitable.(*So it is a Responsibility upon every truthful believer to live in such Peace and Harmony with all peoples,
no matter what they believe in, or they may not believe in anything at all,
this kind of totally amicable and equitable relations above must be maintained with all of them,
and such total Freedom & Peace & Harmony among all peoples must be advocated and followed by
every truthful believer, worldwide, first of all.QURAN TESTAMENT 2/256 = 60/8
Only after these most essential and important Commandments of AL-LAH above
are truly and perfectly observed by all believers,
if anyone starts a physical/actual "War" (="Qitaal") against this kind of truly peaceful and truthful believers above,
and if they do to them this kind of barbarism and savagery (=i.e. killing them, crucifying them, dismembering them, etc.)only then this Clear and Perfect Commandments of AL-LAH here (=5/33-34)
should thus be observed in this Rightful manner
I have tried to clearly and openly present it in my previous post above. (=42/38-39-40-41-42-43)Remain in peace/salaam.
Whatever I have said that may be perfectly Correct and Right is from AL-LAH,
and whatever I have said that may be essentially or partially mistaken or wrong
may only be from my own self (shortcomings forgetfulness, hastiness, etc.) (=34/50)I pretty much agree with what you said. I have always found 545 quite interesting. Notice "life for a life, an eye for an eye, a nose for a nose, an ear for an ear, a tooth for a tooth, and for wounds is legal retribution". That means Allah would have told them to cut off the hands and feet of pharaoh. Honestly speaking, 533 seems more like God is pulling legs because in several other verses pharaoh was the one threatening believers with those punishments.
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I pretty much agree with what you said. I have always found 545 quite interesting.
Notice "life for a life, an eye for an eye, a nose for a nose, an ear for an ear, a tooth for a tooth,
and for wounds is legal retribution". That means Allah would have told them to cut off the hands and feet of pharaoh.
Honestly speaking, 533 seems more like God is pulling legs P because in several other verses pharaoh was the one
threatening believers with those punishments.Salaam/Peace Reel,
yes, I think because in the Perfect Justice System of our Lord AL-LAH
we can clearly see that this is the unchangeable Main Principle==========
17- Today, every soul/self will be recompensed only for/with what it earned.
(Thus) there will be no injustice today. Truly, AL-LAH is Swift in Reckoning.40- Whoever commits an evil-deed, will not be requited except for/with its equivalent,
and whoever does a good-deed, whether male or female, and is a believer, then those will be admitted to the Paradise,
where they will receive provision without reckoning."QURAN TESTAMENT 40/17, 40
And again, in both of those Verses you specifically referred to above (=5/33-34 & 5/45)
we can clearly see that the Forgiveness and Mercy is Recommended unto us by our Lord AL-LAH
always as the Better/Best option for us therein==========
34- Except for those who repent before you execute (the recompense) unto them (=taqdiroo alayhim)
(then) you should absolutely know that AL-LAH is (always) Best-Forgiver, Most-Merciful. (=25/68-72, 73-76)--(*and so, if any of such Aggressors above (=5/33; it could be Pharaoh too) thus openly repents (=i.e. regret and
immediately refrain from committing such atrocities above, and reform themselves)--
and greets the believers with "Peace" (=4/94)
even at the moment just before the recompense would be executed unto them therein (=min qablu an taqdiroo alayhim),
"they should be forgiven" by this Commandment of AL-LAH here, in the first place (=4/94 & 42/40-43)--QURAN TESTAMENT 5/33-34
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45- And We have decreed for them (=i.e. Children of Israel) in it (=TORAH) that
a life for a life, and an eye for an eye, and a nose for a nose, and an ear for an ear, and a tooth for a tooth,
and (always) just a similar/same-retribution for wounds;
but whoever forfeits what is due to him/her as a charity (=tasaddaqa bihi), it will be an atonement
for his/her (own sins). .........--(*again, it is absolutely Recommended unto all truthful believers to choose to be patient and forgive in all such situations,
by this Commandment of AL-LAH here again, in the first place (=4/94 & 42/40-43)--QURAN TESTAMENT 5/45
Remain in peace/salaam.
Whatever I have said that may be perfectly Correct and Right is from AL-LAH,
and whatever I have said that may be essentially or partially mistaken or wrong
may only be from my own self (shortcomings forgetfulness, hastiness, etc.) (=34/50)
