Quran and Pedophilia
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ahhh....this is deplorable...many obviously have no idea of other people's lives.
Back to the village now, when someone comes to the family and wants to take their 12 years old full-time worker country-traveler little girl, they see it as an opportunity of someone helping them with their living and with the living and well being of their daughter, while also growing their family, so they make a huge family meeting to get to know the family they are going to relate with, is it a respectable one, is it a financially capable one, so in most cases the marriage happens between people of the tribe since parents know each other and trust each other. What does the 12 years old full-time worker country-traveler little girl have to say about this ? Nothing, she steps into this as she stepped in every situation she's been in life, with her head low and doing whatever it takes to help her family. Such event are met by these families with great enthusiasm, they make the biggest celebration of their lives at such events.
Very brave people I'd say, very humble people too, they live with less and are content with it. They are uneducated but they have their way of living.
That's what you call , in one word, "pedophilia".
Now in the other hand you have 12 years old girls from modern countries losing their virginity to their boyfriends at their school's bathrooms while living one hell of a comfy life.
Peace -- situation with 12 year old girls in modern countries is different topic nothing to do with offering underage girls into marriage and there are many communities of poor people in villages (I came from one in my youth) and if someone came asking for a girl in my family that was of marriageable age would kindly thank them and leave it up to the girl.
On the other-hand, if someone came asking for an underage girl in my family would happily break his ribs and bust his head along with his entourage/family for suggesting it.
I don't think that word "mar'at" itself indicating that the female is in marriageable age or not.
Perhaps study the words being used
411 instructs you the god in offspring yours lildhakari/to the male (any age) similitude apportion al-unthayayni/the two (any age) so if are (f/p) nisan/womenfolk (i.e. daughters any age) over ith'natayni/two so for them third dual (1/3 x 2 = 2/3) what left
2282 ? so if not being dual rajulayni/menfolk two (adult) so man wa-im'ra-atni/and women two (adult)
335 when said (f) im'ra-atu/woman (adult) imran
340 ? and surely has reached me the oldness wa-im'ra-at/and woman mine (adult) barren ?
783 ? im'ra-atahu/woman his ?
1171 wa-im'ra-atuhu/and woman his ?
1181 ? im'ra-ataka/woman your ?
1221 and said the one of purchased him from mi'ra li-im'ra-atihi/to woman his1230 and said nis'watun (women adult (f/p) the community) in the town im'ra-atu/woman the mighty sought to seduce she young man hers about soul his/himself hence infatuated her love surely we surely we see her in misguidance clear
1250 ? l-nis'wati/the women (f/p) ?
1251 ? said (f) im'ra-atu/woman ?
1560 ? im'ra-atahu/woman his
195 ? and be she im'ra-at/woman mine barren of
198 ? and be she im'ra-at/woman mine barren of
2757 ? amrat-hu/woman his
289 and said she im'ra-atu/woman firaun ?
2823 ? im'ra-atayni/women two
2932 ? im'ra-atahu/woman his
2933 ? im'ra-ataka/woman your
5129 ? im'ra-atuhu/woman his
6610 ? im'ra-ata/woman noah wa-im'ra-ata/and woman lot
6611 ? im'ra-ata/woman firaun
1114 wa-im'ra-atuhu/and woman hisAnyway, my point by quoted verse 2827 and also 2237 was to show that there are two possible person who will act as party of marriage contract on female side, i.e. the woman itself, or her guardian (wali).
Again, study the words being used
43 ? so sponsor marriage ye of
425 ? so sponsor marry ye them by permission family theirs
2432 and sponsor marriage ye of?
2827 said surely I want that sponsor marriage you ?2235 ? the marriage ?
2237 ? the marriage ?Quran 46. It's just unrelated. God didn't state that one who under certain age is forbidden from marriage in that verse, even the "marriageable age" itself is not His creation, it's just a social concept!
No it clearly states
46 and test ye of the bereaved until when attained they of the marriage so if perceive you from them right way of/rational so deliver ye of to them wealth theirs...
Hence according to you, it?s OK to give in marriage 6 or 9 year old little girls or even a 2 year old baby without any consent who have not even started menstruating yet or attained maturity/rational to a pedophile who offers money. nope
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I see some people here still trapped in error way of thinking which I think should be eliminated completely when we choose to become a "Quran only" muslim.
Imagine a conversation between a non-muslim with a muslim like this
Non-muslim Do we allow to give coke to a baby according to Quran?
Muslim I don't find specific verse about that
Non-muslim OMG! so muslims are allowed to give coke to they baby? how can Quran doesn't forbid such dangerous practice? We know it can harm a baby badly right? Quran is so evil!
Muslim (in his mind) It so awful! it's a shame! There should be a verse that ban such thing. I have to find one! or... maybe I can force a verse as if it support the opinion of not letting a baby drink coke.You can find error way of thinking on conversation above right? You may change "give coke to a baby" with "texting while driving" etc, etc. The same error way of thinking seems happened here hmm
Ladies and gentlemen, you don't need verse of Quran to claim that something is wrong )
Maybe some of us react defensively regarding pedophilia issue because this issue is often used to attack Islam by saying that prophet Muhammad did it. For me pedophilia is unwise practice and for some extent could be banned. If one ask my opinion regarding story about prophet Muhammad I will simply answer that I can't comment on it because (hi)story is easy to fabricated.
Peace peace
You didn't reply to my earlier post. That's okay. But I would really love to see what would be your answers to
But if you want to replace one wife with another and you have given one of them a great amount , do not take from it anything. Would you take it in injustice and manifest sin? And how could you take it while you have gone in unto each other and they have taken from you a solemn covenant? 420-21
How does Allah view marriage covenant?
And when you divorce women and they have fulfilled their term, do not prevent them from remarrying their husbands if they agree among themselves on an acceptable basis. That is instructed to whoever of you believes in Allah and the Last Day. That is better for you and purer, and Allah knows and you know not. 2232
Why won't Allah allow other people's (lets' say parents) decision in the above verse?
O you who believe! Not (is) lawful for you that you inherit the women (by) force. And not you constraint them so that you may take a part (of) what you have given them except that they commit immorality open. And live with them in kindness. But if you dislike them, then perhaps that you dislike a thing and Allah placed in it much good. 419
Can a child consent to marriage? If her parents are to do everything without caring about what she wants are they helping the guy force marriage onto her?
How while, if they gain dominance over you they do not regard (the ties) with you (of) kinship and not covenant of protection? They satisfy you with their mouths but refuse, their hearts and most of them (are) defiantly disobedient.98
Can a child give consent right from the heart or should parents? consent be pushed onto the her, violating 419 ?
O mankind! If you are in doubt about the Resurrection, then indeed, We created you from dust, then from a semen-drop then from a clinging substance then from an embryonic lump, formed and unformed, that We may make clear to you. And We cause to remain in the wombs what We will for a term appointed, then We bring you out (as) a child, that you may reach maturity. And among you (is he) who dies, and among you (is he) who is returned to the most abject age, so that not he knows, after having known, anything. And you see the earth barren then when We send down on it water, it gets stirred and it swells and grows of every kind beautiful. 225
Why doesn?t Allah take a kid as mature in the verse?
And what is with you that you fight not in the cause of Allah and the oppressed among men, women, and children who say, "Our Lord, take us out of this city of oppressive people and appoint for us from Yourself a protector and appoint for us from Yourself a helper?" 475
Why didn't Allah say just "men and women" in the above verse if women = children in the Quran?
Thanks
If you go to many villages, in many countries, you'll see that a young male or female becomes a productive individual in his or her family at an early age. Depending on his/her family's needs, boys and girls start to work. There are no schools in such places, and no playgrounds, no shopping malls etc... so these people have a different view of life. Everyday they struggle and work hard for a piece of bread. the young boys and girls work in farms or any other simplistic job opportunity (that's all there is anyways) but some of them get to travel to cities, alone. very brave kids travelling alone at a young age to a city for a job opportunity, girls usually work as maids in houses and boys work at stores. Ironically the abuse begin only at the city, where the employer usually gets too violent or even sexual.
Back to the village now, when someone comes to the family and wants to take their 12 years old full-time worker country-traveler little girl, they see it as an opportunity of someone helping them with their living and with the living and well being of their daughter, while also growing their family, so they make a huge family meeting to get to know the family they are going to relate with, is it a respectable one, is it a financially capable one, so in most cases the marriage happens between people of the tribe since parents know each other and trust each other. What does the 12 years old full-time worker country-traveler little girl have to say about this ? Nothing, she steps into this as she stepped in every situation she's been in life, with her head low and doing whatever it takes to help her family. Such event are met by these families with great enthusiasm, they make the biggest celebration of their lives at such events.
How about having a conversation with such children? Mentally, they do not see labor with rose colored glasses. And just as Bender said, it puts their future at stake.
Humans' civilization began from village. The more we learned the more we improved. That's how towns and cities came. It is our duty help those parents in such a way that they don't have to send their kids to work. As for the western 12 year old, if her partner gets caught law won't spare him
California Penal Code Section 261.5 state(a) Unlawful sexual intercourse is an act of sexual
intercourse accomplished with a person who is not the spouse of the
perpetrator, if the person is a minor. For the purposes of this
section, a ?minor? is a person under the age of 18 years and an
?adult? is a person who is at least 18 years of age.Also known as Statutory Rape laws, it takes place when a person engages in sexual intercourse with a person under 18 also known as unlawful sex with a minor and that they were not married at the time.
This particular statute can either be filed as a felony or misdemeanor offense by the prosecution and there is no need of ?force? being shown in this offense. The age differences between the perpetrator and the victim also plays a significant factor as to the gravity and seriousness of the offense.
If the age difference between the perpetrator and the victim is no more than 3 years difference, it most likely will be filed as a misdemeanor by the prosecution. Misdemeanors can be punishable by up to one year in jail, informal probation and up to $1000 in fines whereas a felony offense is far more serious and is punishable by state imprisonment.https//www.wklaw.com/criminal-act-of-having-sex-with-a-minor/
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The female's breasts should probably have finished growing before mating becomes viable. The female should have a body ready for all phases of pregnancy so that it will not be damaged by pregnancy and the baby hurt. I would say physically no younger than 15.
Signs of Puberty in Girls
Breasts and hips begin to grow.
Growth rate increases.
Pubic hair begins to appear, usually within 6 to 12 months after breast development starts.
Sexual organs increase in size (The uterus and vagina, as well as labia and clitoris.)The female reaches her adult height at about 15 years of age. She is fertile before that, but the body has not finished its growth cycle.
The female is of breeding age on average to her mid 40's. Giving birth to children is therefore not a hurry meaning she can well live into her 20's before reproduction and gain life experience. It is safer for the female to get her offspring before she gets closer to her menopause.
Pedophilia is a human concept and socially spread opinion, but it is exposing the young female to risks to impregnate her and making her pregnant. A younger female is very likely to get pains from intercourse, especially if the male is considerably older due to the difference in size development. There is a high risk of infection because of tissue damage.
Strictly from logic it is foolish to have that kind of relationship with her.
Be well
Amenuel -
How about having a conversation with such children? Mentally, they do not see labor with rose colored glasses. And just as Bender said, it puts their future at stake.
Humans' civilization began from village. The more we learned the more we improved. That's how towns and cities came. It is our duty help those parents in such a way that they don't have to send their kids to work.
Seems like you are the only one so far who could properly read what I said.
For example, my grandmother who married at around 15 with my grandfather who was around 23 (died at around 90), and who is called out here as a pedophile, because his parents and her parents arranged a marriage between them in their community, under their tradition and belief and subsequently commited and had a life together of nearly 70 years, in which they had 11 children. Just like their parents' parents arranged their marriage at an early age, a cultural thing going on.
That is the culture of old people, that still exist in some places nowadays. Places where there is no luxury, only hard work and responsibility that starts at an early age.
Obviously, this culture is outrageous, for any modern-society conformist who can't look beyond his own culture i.e the culture of all modern societies. and I have given a story to detail how their culture fits the harsh circumstances their living in... But you don't have to call their way of living pedophilia, because it's not. Their bond wasn't based on the man willing to have sex with a younger female, they don't even think this way you fools. which part of "hard work and responsibility from an early age" you did not understand ? It goes for both the male and the female.
As you can see, this has nothing to do with Quran...if any of these people try to justify their culture by Quran or hadith, who cares? It doesn't change anything of the fact that it's a cultural thing, not a Quran thing.
Some people can read but can't understand so I'll make a resum? for them
1-when a culture does this or that, it's a cultural thing, whether you agree with it or disagree. (e.g Modern societies tolerate gay and lesbian marriage)
2-There happen to be a culture that still exist nowadays in some corners around the globe, which allows teenagers and young people to marry and make a family. I have went into giving more details about such cultures because of the ignorance and the absurd use of "pedophilia" to describe such cultures.
3-Quran has nothing to do with cultures. There are many cultures around the world and there have been many more around time and Quran has nothing to do with it, hence why I called the title of this thread blasphemous in my very first post in this pathetic thread.
4- Pedophilia, i.e passion/sexual desires towards children, is when you have a european tourist come to a third world country and pay for sex with a minor. Or when you have UN soldiers who were sent to some country to protect the citizens and end up raping children.Or when you have a culture that promotes the use of children to sexually entertain sexual predators
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Discriminating and/or oppressing weaker (in terms of power) races was and is still cultural in many societies.
Discriminating and/or oppressing people with a certain religion is almost everywhere still cultural.
Discriminating and/or oppressing women is a cultural thing in almost all countries.
Slavery was a cultural thing in many countries.
Corruption is still cultural where I come from.
Cruel animal entertainments are still part of culture in many societies.
etc etc etcWhat adult people (hetero's, gays or whatever) do is their choice, children do not have this choice and even if they had a choice they are not grown up enough to make such decisions.
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Seems like you are the only one so far who could properly read what I said.
It is your own fault, Cerberus, you started your post with "it is deplorable how some people..." and made a whole apology of child marriage
That is the culture of old people, that still exist in some places nowadays. Places where there is no luxury, only hard work and responsibility that starts at an early age.
I get your point (and the other users) but you still insist we don't. Poverty / customs / idiosincrasy / bla bla bla nothing justifies child marriage.
The resonsability is not only from the parents of those children, it is ours too. God calls to fight in His cause and fighting oppression is the main fight.
Obviously, this culture is outrageous, for any modern-society conformist who can't look beyond his own culture i.e the culture of all modern societies. and I have given a story to detail how their culture fits the harsh circumstances their living in... But you don't have to call their way of living pedophilia, because it's not. Their bond wasn't based on the man willing to have sex with a younger female, they don't even think this way you fools. which part of "hard work and responsibility from an early age" you did not understand ? It goes for both the male and the female.
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Paedophilia is paedophilia even if it is not considered like it by the one who commits it. If you don't know it is a crime, it is still a crime. And this is the point where we disagree.
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There are hard worker children in this world, unfortunately, and in responsability from an early age without being married (by their parents, obviously).
As you can see, this has nothing to do with Quran...if any of these people try to justify their culture by Quran or hadith, who cares? It doesn't change anything of the fact that it's a cultural thing, not a Quran thing.
You did not express yourself like this before, what you wrote before was saying people force Quran to fit the paedophilia concept in it
Some people can read but can't understand so I'll make a resum? for them
1-when a culture does this or that, it's a cultural thing, whether you agree with it or disagree. (e.g Modern societies tolerate gay and lesbian marriage)
2-There happen to be a culture that still exist nowadays in some corners around the globe, which allows teenagers and young people to marry and make a family. I have went into giving more details about such cultures because of the ignorance and the absurd use of "pedophilia" to describe such cultures.
3-Quran has nothing to do with cultures. There are many cultures around the world and there have been many more around time and Quran has nothing to do with it, hence why I called the title of this thread blasphemous in my very first post in this pathetic thread.
4- Pedophilia, i.e passion/sexual desires towards children, is when you have a european tourist come to a third world country and pay for sex with a minor. Or when you have UN soldiers who were sent to some country to protect the citizens and end up raping children.Or when you have a culture that promotes the use of children to sexually entertain sexual predators1 and 2. I am not using the term paedophilia as a western person. I use it as a believing in God Alone human being. If something is cultural or in purpose, I don't care. Quran warns us to open our minds, intellect and understanding beyong cultural barriers.
3. Aaaaaaaaaaaaaabsolutely agreed. But bro, that is not what could be read in the post I critized.
4. No, I don't agree. I already said for me paidophilia is not only a desire. Any childhood oppression where sex in present, I will call it paedophilia. If it is cultural... what? It is still paedophilia regardeless the sexual awareness. Also the most you say they are not awared the worst it is, oppressing children and seing it as something normal and accepted and "cultural"?In any case I welcome the fact we agree Quran does not aprove such practices, which is what is important here. Now let's end with this hail ayat
4.75 And why do you not fight in the cause of God, when the weak among the men and women and children say "Our Lord, bring us out of this town whose people are wicked, and grant us from Yourself a supporter, and grant us from Yourself a victor!"
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Seems like you are the only one so far who could properly read what I said.
Thanks )
For example, my grandmother who married at around 15 with my grandfather who was around 23 (died at around 90), and who is called out here as a pedophile, because his parents and her parents arranged a marriage between them in their community, under their tradition and belief and subsequently commited and had a life together of nearly 70 years, in which they had 11 children. Just like their parents' parents arranged their marriage at an early age, a cultural thing going on.
No one should see anything bad with unmarried teen moms. My grandma was one of them. It was just that it was a norm in her environment. America should stop saying that teens who become pregnant win themselves badge of dishonor. Just playing P
My great grandma married at age 13. She had her first child at 14. The time you are describing was different. There was one time when people were going around shooting animals for fun. Now we are enlightened enough to understand both are wrong. Past is past. If we stick to that we won?t be able to welcome the future.
That is the culture of old people, that still exist in some places nowadays. Places where there is no luxury, only hard work and responsibility that starts at an early age.
Obviously, this culture is outrageous, for any modern-society conformist who can't look beyond his own culture i.e the culture of all modern societies. and I have given a story to detail how their culture fits the harsh circumstances their living inPlenty from their countries who aren?t modern are teaming up with UN or making their own NGO to solve the problem. I don?t think anyone is criticizing them. In fact, they are also at risk of being manipulated by the rich in the west just as you showed here
Pedophilia, i.e passion/sexual desires towards children, is when you have a european tourist come to a third world country and pay for sex with a minor. Or when you have UN soldiers who were sent to some country to protect the citizens and end up raping children.Or when you have a culture that promotes the use of children to sexually entertain sexual predators
Deep web shows plenty of pedophiles probably are living around us and that is a matter of concern. We should continue to call their activities pedophilia and condemn them.
As you can see, this has nothing to do with Quran...if any of these people try to justify their culture by Quran or hadith, who cares? It doesn't change anything of the fact that it's a cultural thing, not a Quran thing.
Some people can read but can't understand so I'll make a resum? for them
1-when a culture does this or that, it's a cultural thing, whether you agree with it or disagree. (e.g Modern societies tolerate gay and lesbian marriage)
2-There happen to be a culture that still exist nowadays in some corners around the globe, which allows teenagers and young people to marry and make a family. I have went into giving more details about such cultures because of the ignorance and the absurd use of "pedophilia" to describe such cultures.
3-Quran has nothing to do with cultures. There are many cultures around the world and there have been many more around time and Quran has nothing to do with it, hence why I called the title of this thread blasphemous in my very first post in this pathetic thread.
As Quran followers we have to care. But the person in question probably is here to troll us. At least that is the feeling I got when I saw his other posts. It seems to be one of those familiar cases in which the sectarian gets a great high from pushing their sectarian views of Quran just to make it look like the most unfair book in the universe, thinking we study like them and hence, we are hypocrites. Here is one previous user with the same kind words
https//2.bp.blogspot.com/-KY6O3j22HM0/Vq4UmSjujtI/AAAAAAAAAIM/OoODO8u3Phk/s1600/antimuslim_sectarian.pngfrom https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9603540.msg293354#msg293354
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Peace reel.
The irony was that Sunnah-hero became Sunnah-zero few years later and apologised for his misguidance.
I should not worry about trolls,dolls or moles. GOD encompasses all and is fully aware. Truth and falsehood are not the same.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
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mmm yeah okay you obviously still don't get my point.
I gave a real story to bring you closer to the reality of people who live in villages with the only purpose of work to eat and help your family, no other preoccupation. If you had a little heart (and of course, read properly) you'd feel sorry for the miserable circumstances these people live in, instead of pointing fingers, accusing the parents, who were also once children who endured even worse circumstances, and who were also married at a very young age, i.e who were also deprived of their childhood.
Luckily, people who actually know what they're talking about, i.e NGos and local authorities, 1st, don't call the phenomenon "pedophilia" because it's not, it's called child marriage, and then don't threaten them of jailing them, instead, they bring awareness of the importance of childhood and education while also building the infrastructures. And it actually worked. My grandparents' children went to school, and some of them are still not married, even at the age of 40...only by adding another activity to their life, which is the schooling of children that child marriage is now greatly decreasing in such places.
See I don't know what you think, but I also live in a modern-society, just like you, but unlike you, I can think beyond the cultural criteria of modern-day societies. If in modern-societies' culture, where people live confortable with plenty of food, drink and leisure, you have homosexuality being acceptable(while child marriage is not)...in other cultures, where people live miserably with lack of food, drink and no leisure, you have child marriage is acceptable (while homosexuality is viewed as an abomination).
Those two opposite cultures, in my opinion, are equally degenerate in their own ways.
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Peace All.
GOD s wisdom goes beyond all issues.
Qoran and Paedophilia, Qoran and slavery, Qoran and homosexuality, Qoran and oppression, Qoran and gender, Qoran and morals, Qoran and different generations, Qoran and...
GOD is very much aware of every generation and its behavioural cycles. Qoran never condemns innocent people. All God s messages and Qoran have come as a mercy to all the generations as a way out of all issues.
Do you think GOD is not aware of slavery, oppression, paedophilia... etc through the generations? Do you think that GOD condemns without justice? Do you think that GOD is not aware of the various stages of life of different generations?
Qoran has set a way of life according to GOD s system and offers a way out of other "systems". Qoran comes to "free" the true believer by "wiping out all his/her issues".
GOD is forgiver most Merciful to all believers in every generation.
For example, Qoran gave clear instructions about who to marry, yet allowed existing marriages of the time it came to remain intact.
Qoran gave clear instructions about slavery,yet allowed (under certain fair condition) those who had slaves and encouraged them to free the slaves. etc...We, this generation, if we say we believe Qoran,then we need to ponder its way and apply it to ourselves. Qoran encourages freedom.knowledge.justice ,forgiveness, set an example...etc. GOD then does the rest.
The prophecy of chapter 110 gives hope to all future believers.
GOD bless.
Peace. -
See I don't know what you think, but I also live in a modern-society, just like you, but unlike you, I can think beyond the cultural criteria of modern-day societies. If in modern-societies' culture, where people live confortable with plenty of food, drink and leisure, you have homosexuality being acceptable(while child marriage is not)...in other cultures, where people live miserably with lack of food, drink and no leisure, you have child marriage is acceptable (while homosexuality is viewed as an abomination
Sorry, bro, but i am an openly homo supporter ;D
Just wanted to quote few of your words because as I misunderstood you, you misunderstood me too. I will just say I consider western society one of the worse in history of human kind. I told you I was talking as a believer in God Alone and not as a person grown up in a western society
peace
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Peace All.
GOD s wisdom goes beyond all issues.
Qoran and Paedophilia, Qoran and slavery, Qoran and homosexuality, Qoran and oppression, Qoran and gender, Qoran and morals, Qoran and different generations, Qoran and...
GOD is very much aware of every generation and its behavioural cycles. Qoran never condemns innocent people. All God s messages and Qoran have come as a mercy to all the generations as a way out of all issues.
Do you think GOD is not aware of slavery, oppression, paedophilia... etc through the generations? Do you think that GOD condemns without justice? Do you think that GOD is not aware of the various stages of life of different generations?
(...)
The prophecy of chapter 110 gives hope to all future believers.
GOD bless.
Peace.God bless you for the whole post peace
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From http//www.quranicpath.com/misconceptions/underage_marriage.html
Paedophilia - Underage Marriages of Girls
Inserting one's own interpretation and ideas from personal prejudices and whims into verses are common doings of people who read the Qur'an with a twisted and insincere objective. Many text-books are filled with such interpretations. In this article, we are concerned with a verse in Surah At-Talaq, which is used by traditional groups to propagate the claim that the Qur'an endorses child marriages (marriages of girls who are below the age of puberty), and the "husbands" right to have sexual intercourse with her. Their stance has become a particular point of attack for anti-Islamic writers. Translations have also emerged that are either intentionally, or un-intentionally inconsistent with the Arabic grammar of the verse, and these attempts have become a further point of attack by Anti-Islamic writers.
"And those among your women who despair of menstruation, if you have any doubt, their appointed (waiting) time is three months, and (same) for those who did not menstruate. As for those who are pregnant, their term shall be when they have given birth. Whoever is mindful of Allah, He will make his matters easy for him." (Qur'an 654)
The deviated at heart strike the controversy using the term "and those who did not menstruate" - ( - wallaa-ee lam yahidna).
Traditional writers use this part of the verse to mean those who did not menstruate yet. The critical word here, not found in the original Qur'an is "yet". By this interpretation, it would mean this part of the verse is in reference to girls who have not started menstruation, and therefore, are still below the age of puberty. And since the verse is discussing the process of divorce for them, it must be approving of their marriages. They then propagate that child marriages of daughters are valid and pious deeds committed by the father. They state explicitly that sexual intercourses with prepubescent girls, by their alleged adult "husbands" is endorsed by Allah in the Qur'an! Therefore, they seek to authorise paedophilia using the Book of Allah. Also, such scenarios are by default rapes of children, since children are not developed in sexual awareness and their teachings involves sexual imposition of a man upon a child girl who subsequently surrenders under the circumstances. The traditionalists connect the child bride with their relentless teachings of a wife's obligation to obey and surrender to the sexual whims of her husband, which only worsens the sexual exploitation and abuse of children. The mindset of these people have been diagnosed in the Qur'an
"When they commit an indecent act (Fahish / ة, they say, "We found our fathers doing it and Allah commanded us to do it too." Say "Allah does not command indecency (fahshaa / ء, or do you say things about Allah you do not know?" (Qur'an, 72
When these people read the Qur'an, they always seek to find ways to validate their extra-Quranic writings and ideas of revered men using the Qur'an, as with many other lewd ideas they try to validate, such as sex with concubines. When a person freed of their prejudices listens to the original Arabic Qur'an recited to him, or reads it in the written form, he or she interprets it naturally as intended by Allah. There is no room for confusion in this verse.
http//www.quranicpath.com/images/marriage_islam_quran.png
The true meanings are very obvious and clear just by listening to or reading the verse. This part of the verse is in reference to those women who did not menstruate. That is, those adult women who never menstruated. Having a look at the context, the verse starts off by discussing the waiting period for those who have ceased menstruation e.g. due to menopause, (" / Those who despair of menstruation". It has laid the context of adult women who are of menstruating age. The following portion " - wallaa-ee lam yahidna", "those who did not menstruate" is from the context of adult women, who are meant to menstruate, but did not menstruate when they passed the age of menstruation. The waiting period for such women is the same. The insertion of the word "yet", i.e. those who did not menstruate "yet" is only their insertion and not at all suggested by the Qur'an.
Notice in the above paragraph, our use of the words "did not menstruate" (underlined). Those words are also the exact translation of the words, " - lam yahidna" in the Qur'an. The above paragraph successfully used them to refer to adult women, then, why is there confusion when it comes to the Qur'an? Our use did not sound at all that it is referring to those who have not "yet" menstruated, and neither does the Qur'an's usage.
http//www.quranicpath.com/images/innocent_girl3.png
Today, "fatwas" (verdicts) exist elaborating on the permissibility of an adult male committing sexual intercourse with a child. Interestingly, anti-Islamic writers argue for them in order to defame the Qur'an. Proponents of child-marriages argue if the Qur'an intended to mean those who do not menstruate in adult age, it would use - laa yahidna, "do not menstruate" (i.e. continuous present) rather than - lam yahidna, "did not menstruate" (did not in the past). However, the Quranic choice of the use of the grammatical form " - lam yahidna" is highly appropriate. It is referring to the past and present, from the moment they did not commence menstruation when they should have, up till now - i.e. did not and still not menstruating. It does not at all indicate that they are yet to menstruate (and therefore mean young girls). It is just like if one said, " / ana lam ashrabuh - I did not drink it". The person naturally only means by that statement he did not drink it from back then up to this moment, unless someone else suggests on his behalf he will drink it in the future. Just like that, the Qur'an is saying that they did not menstruate from back then up to this moment (never menstruated). The traditionalist interpreters perform the manipulation themselves by suggesting the word "yet" which gives the meaning that they are going to menstruate in the future, something the verse does not suggest. Therefore, there is no reason to assume it is referring to children when reading - wallaa-ee lam yahidna - "those who did not menstruate". To review these points again, the expression
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Is referring to the past when they did not start menstruation at their expected age to the present day.
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Does not suggest "yet" as they claim.
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Begins after laying the context of adult women. Therefore, "those who did not menstruate" are from the adult view point in reference to them, referring to their past. Reading the Qur'an again, this is obvious
"And those among your women who despair of menstruation, if you have any doubt, their appointed (waiting) time is three months, and (same) for those who did not menstruate." (Qur'an 654) "Amenorrhea is the name given to the condition when a woman fails to have menstrual periods. The condition is known as "primary amenorrhea" when the woman has never menstruated." 1 Therefore, there is not the slightest error in expression for the intended meaning. What is explained here is the natural meaning that comes instinctively to the minds of every sincere believer who reads the verse.
The teaching of the permissibility of men having sex with children is a desire of those men who seek such perverted pleasures and have succeeded in gaining approval of their position in religion, and not from the Creator of Mankind. The Creator, Who designed all biological systems and sent the Qur'an in harmony with nature. Paedophilia is not remotely suggested in any Quranic verse, by any stretch of the imagination. Furthermore, the verse regarding all orphans under the care of believers further demonstrates that marriage (and therefore sexual intercourse) is for a person who has gained the 'adult mindset'
"And test the orphans (to see) that they have reached marriageable (age). If you find them of sound judgement..." (Qur'an 46)
This "sound judgement", or "" in Arabic to be precise, depicts a state of mind of adult maturity, which refers to the "marriageable age", "", mentioned prior to it. This maturity is something children do not have. Therefore, their construed understanding of the verse from Surah At-Talaq is even more baseless in the Qur'an.
The reason why so many misconceptions and ideas against the Qur'an are related to women and the female form is fundamentally due to the nature of the very society it was sent down to. Characterised by phallogocentrism and misogyny, much of the people who found themselves in a position of authority over the Qur'an found no hesitancy in manifesting their baser selves' characteristics into elaborations of Quranic verses. The Qur'an is a miraculous Book that explains itself and the explanations are there on the face of every page of the Qur'an.
"It is such that We clarify the revelations to a people who think." (Quran 1024)
The true believer is the one who seeks Allah and understands the Qur'an as Allah has revealed. He or she has a close relationship with the Qur'an, and Allah increases his guidance, despite all odds.
"Should We treat the ones who have surrendered the same as those who are criminals? What is wrong with you, how do you judge? Or do you have another book which you study? In it you find whatever you wish to find?" (Quran 6836-3
It is obvious, seeking to find evidence in the Qur'an in order to justify other books, books of tales and hearsay, only leads to erroneous interpretations, and even outright interpolations of the Qur'an. The actions of such people are not so different to those who have altered the previous Books of Allah with their own hands.
(1) Health Central. Definition of Amenorrhea.
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As Quran followers we have to care. But the person in question probably is here to troll us. At least that is the feeling I got when I saw his other posts. It seems to be one of those familiar cases in which the sectarian gets a great high from pushing their sectarian views of Quran just to make it look like the most unfair book in the universe, thinking we study like them and hence, we are hypocrites. Here is one previous user with the same kind words
https//2.bp.blogspot.com/-KY6O3j22HM0/Vq4UmSjujtI/AAAAAAAAAIM/OoODO8u3Phk/s1600/antimuslim_sectarian.pngfrom https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9603540.msg293354#msg293354
You mean Sunnah-Hero?, there was a brother called MesMorial and he made a response to that guy
Sunnah-Hero says that according to 654, Muslims are allowed to marry babies
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9603540.msg293354#msg293354
In that same post he asked what breaks wudu. Uncleanness breaks wudu (56). You are supposed to do wudu immediately before prayer.
So here is a discussion on his claim about 654
?And test the orphans until they attain the (age of) marriage; then if you find in them maturity of intellect, make over to them their property, and do not consume it extravagantly and hastily, lest they attain to full age; and whoever is rich, let him abstain altogether, and whoever is poor, let him eat reasonably; then when you make over to them their property, call witnesses in their presence; and Allah is enough as a Reckoner.? (46)
The age of marriage is after puberty ends and when the person is of sound judgement. The word ?ashuddah? is derived from ?shaheed? conveying ?full strength?, and it is used in 6152, 1734, 225, 4067 and 4615 to describe a child who has developed to full strength (adulthood). Property must be given to the orphan when they are fully mature (e.g. 1734), and this is equated to marriage in 46. Thus the age of marriage is average 16.
The average completion of puberty for a girl is apparently 17, but one would not consider marrying earlier than say 16. The person should technically reach their adult height first, and people can tell when one is mentally ?mature? enough (they are past the emotional seesaw!). 46 obviously refers to attaining a specified age since the Arabic word ?attain? is used elsewhere to mean ?passing a certain amount of time?. Moreover, if the verse simply meant ?marriage?, we would have to ask why someone without maturity of intellect was married.
Certain people claim that 654 allows pre-pubescent marriage
?And (as for) those of your women who have despaired of menstruation, if you have a doubt, their prescribed time shall be three months, and of those too who have not had their courses; and (as for) the pregnant women, their prescribed time is that they lay down their burden; and whoever is careful of (his duty to) Allah He will make easy for him his affair.? (654)
This actually refers to the period that should pass between when a couple divorce and when they officially confirm it. The waiting-period is there in case the woman is pregnant. Now, the woman who no longer menstruates should still wait three months. The woman who menstruates but has not done so in this particular period must wait for three months (menstruation is a monthly occurrence), anyway.
Menstruation occurs only if the woman is not pregnant.
According to 2226, a couple should not have sex for four months before divorce. The subsequent three month waiting period ensures they have not. 2228 instructs normally-menstruating women to wait three cycles, whilst 654 instructs those who believe they have reached menopause but for whom there is a reason to doubt (either that they cannot get pregnant or that they are not pregnant) and those who have ?not menstruated? to wait three months. Obviously, immediately after divorce any women will have not menstruated, and thus they will wait three months (equivalent to three cycles whether they begin to menstruate or not). 654 is a clarification that 2228 is not to be taken as ?three cycles?, but ultimately as ?three months?. Otherwise a woman who menstruated the first month but not the next (due to a non-pregnancy reason) would have to wait potentially longer than three months. 2228, in describing the default position for women, confirms that all married women are those who have courses (i.e. menstruate). This establishes that pre-pubescent marriage did not occur and that it was never available as an Islamic option. 3349 echoes what 2228 actually says (i.e. that the purpose of waiting is to see if one is pregnant). 654 is clarification for women who have departed from the default position of all newly-married women (i.e. they have ceased menstruating either due to pregnancy or illness). Such women can wait months instead of cycles/periods.
A critic may claim that 43 mandates marriage with underage orphans, but it (that interpretation) would refer only to those specific circumstances (just as polygamy is only legal in those specific circumstances).
The more obvious response is that these disadvantaged orphans (having reached the age of full-strength such that they can receive their property (1734)) are actually old enough to be married (hence 46). Orphans were not defined by age. This point is solidified in 4127 where the female orphans (or again the orphans ?of the women one wishes to marry?) are distinguished from the weaker children. The female orphans of marriageable age must receive their property, and the children must have their property spent only out of necessity (in a good way (1734)).
A desperate critic will then say that 46 only applies to males, in which case only male children need to be good to their parents (4615). It also means that only female orphans receive their property in 42, and this is logically unacceptable. The same word for ?orphans? is used in the verses 42, 43 and 46 such that there is no reason to differentiate the male from the female.
It is unclear whether the Qur?an permitted existing pre-pubescent marriages to continue, and this may be included in 654. Either way, they have been cancelled.
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Timeout ignore
Wait is going on?
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Whilst analysis of 654 is helpful, in my view it doesn't come close to the brilliant Quranic argument found here (note the part in bold)
http//misconceptions-about-islam.com/muhammad-married-young-girl.htmI later found out Parwez used the same argument.
Plus also see this
http//samvak.tripod.com/pedophilia.html
http//www.protectpakids.org/full-stop-children-cannot-consent-to-sex-with-an-adult-ever/
https//www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/sep/27/child-sexual-abuse-consensual-victim-behaviour
https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHZDEUVt9OI
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There is people who defend pedophilia like Flea guy and honestly it makes mad.
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Sister Reel, did you encounter defenders of pedophilia? I think you mentioned a organization that openly advocates pedophilia.
