Contradiction in Quran
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You are right. There is compulsion in the sectarian interpretation of Quran. People are to be killed unless they perform Islam's salat according to the chapter you referred to.
Be well
AmenuelWhat's the non-sectarian interpretation of these verses?
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Peace Man Of Faith.
According to Qoran these idol worshippers of surah 9 already did salat and Zakat and...But nullified their works by their wrong motives and by their idolatry ( by talking their leaders as god beside GOD Alone )
954
What prevented the acceptance of their spending is that they disbelieved in God and His messenger, and when they observed the Salat,* they observed them lazily, and when they gave to charity, they did so grudgingly.If they repent means they will do these properly .i.e dedicate them to GOD Alone.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Hi all,
Thanks for everyone answer. I am quite clear regarding the war against polytheists. This verse is specific about those polytheists who broke the treaty and they were given four months ultimatum to correct it. The verse is not talking about general polytheists in arabia or any other polytheist in the world.
My main question is regarding giving them two options Islam or Sword. The wording of the verse is quite clear
When they offer SALAH and give ZAKAH then it means they become muslim which is one of the two options they have to save their lives. My concerned is only that part of the verse which contradict to verse in chapter 2.
In one verse the order is general that no one can force their religion to anyone but in the other situation (although the situation is specific), it looks like that there is a force conversion. Otherwise there is no way they can offer SALAH and offer ZAKAH as they are not muslim.
For example, if they repent but not accept islam or if they hear God's word but still not accept islam then what would be the order in Quran.
Let them free?
Regards,
NK -
The work I am devoted to is far from complete, so I only have brief analysis of the before mentioned verses. It appears to talk about helping deluded people by convincing them on how misled they are and giving them advice on how to move on properly. Seems quite consistent with what I discovered in Quran so far about helping people in need, rather than hating them for being deluded, like the god of the imaginative clergymen that they wished to portray about "God". Even people who oppose you you should give your care to and maintain patience, be steady and avoid emotional unrest. One part in chapter 2 says one should keep their peace even towards people who are lifeless (in spirit).
Control over emotions is vital, without it spiritual growth is hampered.
Anyways, without the sectarian influence it is like a different book. It means removing fabricated primitive ideas surrounding "God" and putting the being of "God" in a different light.
However, unless one is ready to accept that Quran in the sectarian understanding is an invented fallible doctrine by clergymen then perhaps it is better to hold onto it and stop being provoked by posts like this. It is unhealthy to become emotional, particularly angry/aggressive and I do not sponsor that. Actually I see no problem with people following the usual understanding of Islam, but I would consider them dead in spirit if they are unreasonable and I may leave them in their little world. I see no responsibility to guide stray people nor do I see any issues with their coexistence, but the only real reason I intervene is because obviously I would pity the demise of people in general. We would many of us like to give people an honest opportunity, but I see no reason to "defend God's sovereignty" like sectarians seem to. It is absolutely not "God's and his believers kampf" as many people seem to put it. The purpose is to test people in a highly corrupting environment and use the best subjects for a higher level of existence.
Be well
Amenuel -
Peace Man Of Faith.
According to Qoran these idol worshippers of surah 9 already did salat and Zakat and...But nullified their works by their wrong motives and by their idolatry ( by talking their leaders as god beside GOD Alone )
954
What prevented the acceptance of their spending is that they disbelieved in God and His messenger, and when they observed the Salat,* they observed them lazily, and when they gave to charity, they did so grudgingly.If they repent means they will do these properly .i.e dedicate them to GOD Alone.
GOD bless you.
Peace.Regardless, some verses imply that people should be killed for NOT performing salat, i.e. until they hold salat. Until you can produce a better rendition this is what it says inevitably.
And furthermore many of the surrounding verses imply very violent acts (slaughter them wherever you find them) against people and fierce warfare, and it encourages a hateful stance against those "disbelievers". Not exactly spiritually enlightening.
Charity is a voluntary act and if one feels forced so much that they mutter and whine then perhaps that should cease it. Quite irrelevant to this context. Same goes for salat which ought too to be a voluntary activity (there is a passage saying "there is no compulsion in religion" in the sectarian interpretation) and the activity is something you choose yourself to uphold. But the verses in chapter 9 tell that non-performers should be eliminated which is clearly inconsistent. One only has to render them disbelievers and get an excuse to attack, because in a case of a war setting for whatever reason it is fully okay to kill disbelievers who do not uphold salat, and they should be killed relentlessly and without remorse.
So by your arguments you can go on until they repent to your faith/doctrine and god and believe in your god alone or else you have excuses to proceed against them. And you may kill the leaders of their organization/country, meaning you may kill the president of a country in order to stop the disbelief.
This Quran understanding is that fierce, but you do not read it with an objective mind but it seems rather subjective and you look for every way with interpretation acrobatics and try to convince yourself and others concerning it and it seems you have been successful. That you do instead of seeing whether there is some kind of serious interpretation error in the original Arabic to begin with.
A whole realm of understanding emerges if one lets go and allows themselves out of the gullibility. Your Islam is not infallible and contains illogical elements and the god is awfully primitive meaning I could make a more advanced god myself. Either something is wrong or that, and I am still far behind being perfect in the sunnatullah.
Be well
Amenuel -
Hi all,
Thanks for everyone answer. I am quite clear regarding the war against polytheists. This verse is specific about those polytheists who broke the treaty and they were given four months ultimatum to correct it. The verse is not talking about general polytheists in arabia or any other polytheist in the world.
My main question is regarding giving them two options Islam or Sword. The wording of the verse is quite clear
When they offer SALAH and give ZAKAH then it means they become muslim which is one of the two options they have to save their lives. My concerned is only that part of the verse which contradict to verse in chapter 2.
In one verse the order is general that no one can force their religion to anyone but in the other situation (although the situation is specific), it looks like that there is a force conversion. Otherwise there is no way they can offer SALAH and offer ZAKAH as they are not muslim.
For example, if they repent but not accept islam or if they hear God's word but still not accept islam then what would be the order in Quran.
Let them free?
Regards,
NKDoes it not seem people just have to find an excuse for a war and then have all the means to kill "disbelievers" who do not follow their form of Salah and zakah?
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Well said Man of Faith! I was like that trying to find an excuse to all the violence according to sectarian interpretation. I believe since they deceived people for 1400 with hadiths, sira, and all the bullshit they put out.. Then I'm sure they can change the language to fit their agenda.
Even tho Edip Yuksel tries to always justify or find an innocent reason to the violence, he did show that sectarian interpretations would give a different meaning to the same word used elsewhere in the quran to push forward their agenda.
They are so evil and ignorant these scholars, I have never liked them for what they did and what they're doing till now. Sometimes I think hell should be or is an eternal fire where these deceivers are thrown in for misleading people and causing the demise of billions of people.
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2256 is the guiding principle, infact it's one of my personal favorite in the Quran.
"Deen" is not "religion", Deen is judgement / opinion / view / attitude (towards something).There shall be no compulsion in DEEN (Judgement / Opinion / view / Attitude towards something).
As truth / wisdom (rushd) stands out clear from error / wrong / ignorance (ghoyi)Arabia 7th century version of freedom of speech and opinion..
The 20th century version is
Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.
United Nations - Universal Declaration of Human RightsWhile Surah 9 seems to be 'special' (lex specialis), very political in nature and seems to be addressing the context of political conflict between those who the Quran writer took side and their enemy. Maybe it can be understood if we put it inside a context , let's say the war with the extremist.. let's say the infamous ISIS...
The war with ISIS is not war of opinion, it's truly a war of survival and establishing order and protecting civilian who are suffering under their territory. If a truce is established with them and it's expired.. well.. take them... hit them hard.. kill them... until they can't fight no more... otherwise they will hit you and kill you... put you into slavery or burn you to death... If any of the ISIS supporter surrender and repented from their barbarisms act and amended their way, then accept them back into society..
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Peace NK.
Qoran does not shy from being blunt and to the point.
Surah 9 is about a phase of history that took place during the life of the prophet. Arabs at that time included believers,non believers and
hypocrites.
These Arabs had salat and zakat already established before Qoran.These rituals were corrupted and idol worship was the norm.The treaty in surah 9 was between those who followed the prophet who came to correct and clean the deen to be dedicated to GOD Alone and the idol worshippers who practised the corrupted version and had different motives.
GOD in His wisdom planted the seed that will enable the truth to grow and survive to keep its survival to all generations.
GOD s instructions and commands were a fair and just necessity at that time to overcome the spread of falsehood and corruption of GOD s system.
I disagree with you, the order of "until they Aquimi salat and give Zakat" is not general . It is specific to the idol worshippers at that time that were already doing the salat and zakat but in a corrupted manner and with wrong motives,
Those who tried to fight GOD s system to keep their corrupted ways had to be fought back so that GOD s system will be established .Funny enough the idol worshippers managed to corrupt the deen again years later ( the present Traditional Isam) and 14000 years later GOD is sowing the seed through the "Dhikr"( Qoran) again to clean up the corrupted version. Only this time , humans have evolved with Science and the fight is "with the modern tools and technology".
Yes, this medium that you and I are using to communicate with ,GOD is using to spread the truth once more.Surah 9 belonged to that generation of the prophet. Surah 110 belongs to this generation and the next ones.
No need to defend Qoran or give excuses. GOD does everything throughout all the generations.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Well said Man of Faith! I was like that trying to find an excuse to all the violence according to sectarian interpretation. I believe since they deceived people for 1400 with hadiths, sira, and all the bullshit they put out.. Then I'm sure they can change the language to fit their agenda.
Even tho Edip Yuksel tries to always justify or find an innocent reason to the violence, he did show that sectarian interpretations would give a different meaning to the same word used elsewhere in the quran to push forward their agenda.
They are so evil and ignorant these scholars, I have never liked them for what they did and what they're doing till now. Sometimes I think hell should be or is an eternal fire where these deceivers are thrown in for misleading people and causing the demise of billions of people.
Peace Rekkd
It appears you have already made up your mind!peace
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No I didn't. Till now I don't know what's right or how to get into heaven or the real purpose of life. I'm just filtering out all the lies and disinformation.
some answers are not included in the second stage of existense...
the final stage of this life will make u understand the purpose of (current) life...
it seems that advance creation of God were also unaware about the purpose of creating humans... but God alone knows the secrets of heavens and earth... they were satisfied.. hence we need to understand and trust the loving and caring God..
we ll get satisfied too with God willingif youll get all your answers during the test ,the test considered as fixed... God dnt fix things like match fixing... wait and u ll get answers...
nobody can tell you what is the real purpose of life ... the theories varies from point to point for the satisfaction of solving the myth...
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The war with ISIS is not war of opinion, it's truly a war of survival and establishing order and protecting civilian who are suffering under their territory. If a truce is established with them and it's expired.. well.. take them... hit them hard.. kill them... until they can't fight no more... otherwise they will hit you and kill you... put you into slavery or burn you to death... If any of the ISIS supporter surrender and repented from their barbarisms act and amended their way, then accept them back into society..
yeah
