Unstable Water symbolism
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Large bodies of water is nowhere mentioned in the reading. It was rather inscribed in plain terms as the sea. The reading asks us to reflect and bring to mind that we forgot as the incidences that took place aforetime. In many places, the reading brings to our memory the fallen societies that were destroyed due to their outright rejection of the messengers and the signs of allah. It is hard to recollect the part of the reading that mentions linking of the sea to this effect - such as unstable society or large bodies of water.
Yunus has erred but never rejected. Please say the verse of his rejection. If you do not find it never mind, we consider it as an error, minor. The following statement he was thrown at where can be dealt with later.
Musa and the children of "Israel" escaped through the unstable society through a dry path made by Musa's philosophy(staff).
What makes you feel it is not the sea really? What was Musa's philosophy? Why not staff, again?
Firaun and his followers were drowned as they pursued Musa and the children of Israel by thier own unstable society
.Why do you use the word drowned here instead of destroyed? Firaun and the whole unstable society is one single nation of his followers. They are not definitely musa's followers i.e, they are not children of israel. Who are the followers of firaun then? Where was this unstable society? How this society and the people of firaun got inimical? Give me a link to this symbolic story which you have superimposed over the real history. What is firaun and musa and children of israel and the followers of both of them, if at all all these are symbolic characterisation in a story form?
I stop here brother idolfree before proceeding to your proofs. I always like one subject at a time As and when we finish with each I will take the rest of your statements in succession from your first post. You can consider this as my counter posting in part though, for the same reason. You can take any one point at a time and discuss, instead of going about with broken quotings filling up the whole length of the page. It looks terrible. To a great extent I avoid quoting but reply generally. if any misquote or misunderstanding you can point out that shall be apologised to instantly.
Many, many apologies in advance, brother idolfree. I mean it!
May Allah give us peace.
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Salaamun alaikum Kyle,
Well done with this. I think ur line of thinking/approach to al-quraan is the correct one, it fits with all of al-quraan's internal principles. After all the verses/ayaat of al-quraan will match the signs in the horizon and in ourselves.
It is therefore through our observations (horizons) and selves (experiences) that al-quraan will be clarified for us.
Your 'standing in the waves' idea has given me something meaningful today. Please keep up the good work. Your patience with al-quraan is slowly opening up great stuff for you (and those who read your posts).
peace
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Peace be upon you MQ,
Thank you brother. Please keep me updated on your studies.
Brother Fazl, I did not understand what you meant at the end of your post, am I waiting for another reply from you? Please elaborate on where we stand in this discussion.
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brother idolfree
Let me start from 20 9 onwards every ayat.
020.009 Has the story of Moses reached thee?
Here Allah asks us if the History of Musa has reached us. I say No to Allah and seek from Him the full picture and practical guidance to conduct myself in the straight path. Such a journey hasbeen taken by me with the fullest belief that I shall imbibe Allah's signs, vivid and clear by His Leave and the rewards for the same is coming through. Allah is Truthful, indeed!
Now your understanding of the ayat is awaited.
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Peace be upon you Brother Fazl,
I thought we were debating the symbolim of water? In any case, I will follow your lead, lets discuss the whole of Musa's story.
(209) And did Moses', story(hadith) come to you?
I will do as you did and state no with the intent to listen clearly to the story that I am about to be told.
(2010) When he saw/percieved a fire, so he said to his family "Wait/remain/stay, surely I perceived/saw a fire, perhaps I come to you from it with a fire's flame/torch, or I find on (at) the fire guidance."
The small fire symbolizes an idea, intelligence. Musa told his family to WAIT/REMAIN, just like when Mary left her family to give birth to Isa. One must always leave preconcieved ideas/tradition behind in order to recieve divine intuition.
(2011) So when he came to it, was called "You Moses."
The message is directed to each individual.
(2012) "Surely I am your Lord, so take off your two shoes , surely you are at the Divine Valley wrapped within (tuwan)."
He was told to take off his shoes. This symbolizes that he journey is not a physical one, the journey is within, to the divine valley where the mountain stands above us.
I wil stop here and awiat your response.
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I think symbolism is a very affective way to make ppl think.. It can give various meaning and help a mind to practice more and grow..
But at the same time stupid ppl use to get caught up in symbolism and take them as literal thus create lot of trouble..
peace
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PEace be upon you SA,
Yes, I agree. Visiualization is very powerful. And symbols are universal, not hindered by language barriers/translations. Everyone can experience the feeling of control while on land, and the the LAWLESSNESS of being in water, uncontrolled, no matter what language they speak.
So powerful.
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I think even allthese creations such as the universe and all are symbols to prove The All power's existence. So even here we can see symbolism. Even this suprieme power is using symbols to prove Its point. All these symbols are directing to something. This something is the vacume in our knowledge/mind, the alpha and the omega, The unseen. But only those will fail who will take these symbols as absolute and idolize them........
isnt it ?
peace
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Peace Kyle,
I've had this position for at least 3 years now. I described it in a post in June 2004 here
Moments later I saw the blanket of water that stretched under the bridge and the ferries cutting their way through it. The vast body of water was at once connected to all the oceans of the world and the enormity of tidal movements and the moon orbiting the earth became easily appreciable. A spiritual lesson immediately followed - between the water and terra firma. The believers were like the earth, solid and dependable, whereas the unbelievers were like the constantly moving water, unstable and chaotic.
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1880&highlight=water+unstable
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Salaamun alaikum,
Alhamdulillah, I believe that this reading of al-quraan is closest yet to the ultimate truth which Alllah has set for us. I had always wondered what the point was of telling us these stories, especially the stories of Prophets who mentioned only once and so on. What is the point of these mentionings if not as lessons ? We need to penetrate deeply into these interpretations to learn wisdom for our own lives.