Possible meaning of ZAID in 33:37
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I m not the only one here who has personal views and understanding on Quran. I have gone through many threads in which people giving their personal understandings which they got only by reading translation and by searching meanings in dictionaries. They don't need to learn Arabic for this like to raise questions in MMA , AN NISA, AJARUHUNA and many more they all have translated in weird way and give unlogical concepts. So I m asking those whom have same understanding as I have and I m new in Arabic language that's why I m asking their translations I m not giving mine.
Thanks and peace.
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No offence but your meaning of Zaid as increase or excess does not fit with the complete Ayat.
Zaid is not a name of a person (in 3337) for many reasons.
If an understanding does not fit with the bukhary understanding it does not mean it's wrong.To understand that you either trust some translations or wait until you finish your Arabic Language learning.
Salaam
blue like? any suggestions?
red I totally disagree with that. If you can distinguish the characters from each other then you are good to go to explore the arabic written quran and if one finds that hard to master then you can take any transliteration and start. -
Zaid is not a name of a person (in 3337) for many reasons.
I would love to learn from you what zaid means in 3337.
If an understanding does not fit with the bukhary understanding it does not mean it's wrong.
An understanding should have a reasonable explanation.
blue like? any suggestions?
I meant if one doesn't know the language then one has to depend on translations.
red I totally disagree with that. If you can distinguish the characters from each other then you are good to go to explore the arabic written quran and if one finds that hard to master then you can take any transliteration and start.
For me a language is built over time and it has some rules and vocabulary. If you can understand a language by just distinguishing the characters from each other then you must have worked hard to get the understanding of the language.
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yes actually bender is right... its not that hard to understand quran.. specially in this era of tecnology.. when you have access to live books, helping tools, cross ref method and lot of other helpful material availaible...
but one need to understand how to do a proper research , in start it may b little strange but with regular use it become familiar how to track the actual meanings or artleast closing understanding...
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Peace,
It seems to me in the context to the verse that zayd is the name of somebody, is there any evidence that it is not?
Is it a matter of wonderment that the Quran talks about real people and their lives? And matters that are relevant, and easy to understand by way of example
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I m not the only one here who has personal views and understanding on Quran. I have gone through many threads in which people giving their personal understandings which they got only by reading translation and by searching meanings in dictionaries. They don't need to learn Arabic for this like to raise questions in MMA , AN NISA, AJARUHUNA and many more they all have translated in weird way and give unlogical concepts. So I m asking those whom have same understanding as I have and I m new in Arabic language that's why I m asking their translations I m not giving mine.
Thanks and peace.
Salaam Mahanoor
3337
is a verb and is a noun (actor) I could not figure out how zaid=excess or increase fits into the meanings of this Ayat.
Could you please translate the verse putting zaid=excess or increase.
Thank you.
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Salam and peace,
I told that am not giving my translation because it can be wrong grammatically thats why I m asking if anyone can translate it with right meaning.
I have found two translations one is saying zaid is an imaginary name and refer to anybody and other is saying Zaid = increase. I want more possible meanings.
These are not my translations I have just copied and pasted them here.
3337 (In personal matters you may respectfully disagree with
Muhammad in the capacity of a human being 379. As an example)
Recall that you did tell the one to whom God had blessed and you had
blessed, ?Hold on to your wife and be mindful of God. You seek to
conceal within yourself what God intends to reveal. You fear people
whereas it is more appropriate to fear God.? But when he had observed
all the rules and divorced her, We gave her to one of you in marriage, so
that henceforth there may be no blame on the believers in respect of
spouses of their adopted children when they have come to the
dissolution of their union. The commandment of God must be fulfilled.And (remember) when (he) said to him ?you have
received the grace of Allah and favour "Retain thou (in wedlock) thy wife, and fear Allah." But didst hide in the heart that which Allah was about to make manifest and didst fear the people, but Allah had better right that he should have feared Him. So when their desire to finally end the union increased We joined her in a new marriage tie in order that (in future) there may be no difficulty to the Believers in the wives yearning/cry, when the latter have dissolved with the necessary (formality) (their marriage) with them. And Allah's command must be fulfilled -
I told that am not giving my translation because it can be wrong grammatically thats why I m asking if anyone can translate it with right meaning.
I have found two translations one is saying zaid is an imaginary name and refer to anybody and other is saying Zaid = increase. I want more possible meanings.
A translation can be verified with the original text to verify accuracy.
These are not my translations I have just copied and pasted them here.
3337 (In personal matters you may respectfully disagree with
Muhammad in the capacity of a human being 379. As an example)
Recall that you did tell the one to whom God had blessed and you had
blessed, ?Hold on to your wife and be mindful of God. You seek to
conceal within yourself what God intends to reveal. You fear people
whereas it is more appropriate to fear God.? But when he had observed
all the rules and divorced her, We gave her to one of you in marriage, so
that henceforth there may be no blame on the believers in respect of
spouses of their adopted children when they have come to the
dissolution of their union. The commandment of God must be fulfilled.And (remember) when (he) said to him ?you have
received the grace of Allah and favour "Retain thou (in wedlock) thy wife, and fear Allah." But didst hide in the heart that which Allah was about to make manifest and didst fear the people, but Allah had better right that he should have feared Him. So when their desire to finally end the union increased We joined her in a new marriage tie in order that (in future) there may be no difficulty to the Believers in the wives yearning/cry, when the latter have dissolved with the necessary (formality) (their marriage) with them. And Allah's command must be fulfilledCould you please name the source of these translations?
Salaam
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Salam Mahanoor, welcome to the Forum handshake and your Arabic is really good and you're much better than me at the language already and you've raised a pretty interesting and good question
I m not the only one here who has personal views and understanding on Quran. I have gone through many threads in which people giving their personal understandings which they got only by reading translation and by searching meanings in dictionaries. They don't need to learn Arabic for this like to raise questions in MMA , AN NISA, AJARUHUNA and many more they all have translated in weird way and give unlogical concepts. So I m asking those whom have same understanding as I have and I m new in Arabic language that's why I m asking their translations I m not giving mine.
Thanks and peace.
Totally agree with this.
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Salam and peace bender,
Can you please explain those reason I would like to know.
Thanks.
Salaam,
Sure, I'll do my best.
- Ok this is a bit technical, here the part in arabic characters.
The blue word is kind of important here. I actually don't consider such words as words but as "operators".
Without using any lexicon or grammer book you can look for structures in the quran where this operator is used.
I don't want to go to much in detail, but you will notice that the green word in similar structures always says something about the red word.
It's structure is similar to "Ghayrun minhu"
or "Hablun min masad"
these are just 2 examples which came in mind but I am sure if you use a good tool you will find a loooooooot of similar structures.So if we never understand in other instances the green word as a name of some kind of person why are we insisting to use it as a name in 3337?
IF "Zayd" wants to be considered as some kind of name THEN it should at least have been written like "ZaydU" and NOT as "ZaydAN".-
It makes no sense to introduce a name of a person in the middle of a verse without any reason. The person in question is already specified as " " he/she needs no name, we already know the "suspect", there is no added value to the reader to know his name.
IF it was about Mr Zayd THEN the verse should at least begin like this "Waith taqoolu li Zaydu, allathee anAAama Allahu AAalayhi waanAAamta AAalayhi, ...". this is how it's done in the quran when something is defined/explained/etc -
I know I will not make many friends with this objection, but this chapter is to the Nabi and NOT to Mohammed.
I will try to explain. When we see things like this " " (which most of times is translated as "O you who believe" we always feel it is talking to every "believer" and NOT ONLY to Omar, Ali, Abu Bakr, Hamza etc so why then do we always read "Mohammed" when we see the word "NABI". When the quran uses NABI it is to every nabi, from Musa to MoF
So it can not be that every NABI has an son or adopted son or whatever who is named ZAYD, that simply makes no sense. -
This is not really an objection, but if you understood what I was trying to say in the first part and you try to understand the verse in that way then you will actually see how beautifully fits with " ".
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I would love to learn from you what zaid means in 3337.
Sorry I never really studied the word so your guess would be probably better than mine.
An understanding should have a reasonable explanation.
Agreed handshake
I meant if one doesn't know the language then one has to depend on translations.
I believe you can achieve a lot with the quran without them, they are greeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaat tools I totally agree with that.
But we should not take them as the criterion but as opinions. -
Salaam Bender
The blue word is kind of important here. I actually don't consider such words as words but as "operators".
Without using any lexicon or grammer book you can look for structures in the quran where this operator is used.
I don't want to go to much in detail, but you will notice that the green word in similar structures always says something about the red word.
It's structure is similar to "Ghayrun minhu"
or "Hablun min masad"
these are just 2 examples which came in mind but I am sure if you use a good tool you will find a loooooooot of similar structures.So if we never understand in other instances the green word as a name of some kind of person why are we insisting to use it as a name in 3337?
Green word in your examples refer to "hu" and "hablun" which give clear meanings when we read with the context. Zaid is a name which is widely used by muslims.
IF "Zayd" wants to be considered as some kind of name THEN it should at least have been written like "ZaydU" and NOT as "ZaydAN".
In Arabic we normally write names as "hamidun" "Khalidun" etc hense "Zaidun".
Also Zaidun comes after the verb and a name after a verb becomes the actor in Arabic. Here action is done by Zaid so name has come here in the verse.
- It makes no sense to introduce a name of a person in the middle of a verse without any reason. The person in question is already specified as " " he/she needs no name, we already know the "suspect", there is no added value to the reader to know his name.
IF it was about Mr Zayd THEN the verse should at least begin like this "Waith taqoolu li Zaydu, allathee anAAama Allahu AAalayhi waanAAamta AAalayhi, ...". this is how it's done in the quran when something is defined/explained/etc
Name Zaid is used here with reference to and the way verse is revealed gives clear meanings to me.
- This is not really an objection, but if you understood what I was trying to say in the first part and you try to understand the verse in that way then you will actually see how beautifully fits with " ".
Could you please translate these two verses as per your understanding?
For me first verse starts as "So when Zaid qada..." showing action by a single person whose name is Zaid and second verse starts like "when they qada......" telling an action by more than two persons so names are not mentioned.
And of course it is my understanding and I respect your understanding. We are sharing our understanding and not proving who is wrong or right. handshake
Peace
- It makes no sense to introduce a name of a person in the middle of a verse without any reason. The person in question is already specified as " " he/she needs no name, we already know the "suspect", there is no added value to the reader to know his name.
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Salaam Bender
Green word in your examples refer to "hu" and "hablun" which give clear meanings when we read with the context. Zaid is a name which is widely used by muslims.
In Arabic we normally write names as "hamidun" "Khalidun" etc hense "Zaidun".
Also Zaidun comes after the verb and a name after a verb becomes the actor in Arabic. Here action is done by Zaid so name has come here in the verse.
Name Zaid is used here with reference to and the way verse is revealed gives clear meanings to me.
Could you please translate these two verses as per your understanding?
For me first verse starts as "So when Zaid qada..." showing action by a single person whose name is Zaid and second verse starts like "when they qada......" telling an action by more than two persons so names are not mentioned.
And of course it is my understanding and I respect your understanding. We are sharing our understanding and not proving who is wrong or right. handshake
Peace
I understand that if you are a native arabic speaker or you learned arabic from schoolbooks that a lot of what I say makes no sense.
Your questions are really not hard to answer, but one needs to make that switch in thinking.
If you want to understand how I see it then try to make the actor the whole phrase . -
I understand that if you are a native arabic speaker or you learned arabic from schoolbooks that a lot of what I say makes no sense.
Your questions are really not hard to answer, but one needs to make that switch in thinking.
If you want to understand how I see it then try to make the actor the whole phrase .What I find unusal here is the verb qaDaa. If it is speaking about divorce or separation, why not use those words as in other ayas of Qur'an. This qaDaa is a completely new word to express separation or divorce if tht is what is meant. And the word divorce is rather common in the Qur'an, why spare it in this occasion.
qaDaa seems that something is completely solved or done with.
Salaam
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Peace Huruf.
I concur with you about the word "Quada". If the word divorce was used,one will be left to wonder at what stage is this divorce? As we know divorce has stages of waiting...for reasons described in Qoran.Does the word "Quada" then meant all the stages of the divorce have been completed? Or if anyone implies other,then let us the whole verse translated in its context.
Just curious.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
The question that bugs my mind is why "prooving" that the marriage to the ex wife of an adopted son (or daughter, I suppose) is not proibited has to be done this way, involving personnally the prophet. It would have sufficed if it were stated in any other aya. In fact if it is not included in the prohibitions it should be understood tht it is allowed. But well, let us say it is better if it is said so specifically somewhere else in the Qur'an. Why should the Prophet be made to undergo such an event, and how makes it clearer to have go the prophe to it than stating it in all words for everybody like so mny things in the Qur'an.
That, I must admit it, bugs me. Not that I think it is self serving for the prophet or nything like tht. I just feel there must be some purpose to it.
Salaam
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Yes sister. I suppose what is said in Qoran needed to be said.
As it is, even with many things being said in Qoran,we still ask why did GOD not say such and such.
I also think sister ,GOD knows exactly what to say and why He says it for His reasons of our trial.
Do we really understand Qoran when we think we do?
if only.
GOD bless you.
Peace.