Questions for QURAN only Muslims?

Jafar

What is the origin of Quran?
How do you know it?
Where Middle East, Somewhere between the fertile crescent area and northern arabian peninsula
Who initially written by somebody from a Judeo Nazarene sect due to striking similarity of idea and doctrines and some other writers might add their own materials afterwards.
When Post ancient egyptian, judaism, hellenism era in the middle of conflict between christianity sect after some of the sect secure political support from Roman empire.. and during the era where the 'legend' of "Seven Sleepers of Ephesus" were famous within the society.. estimatedly circa 450-600 AD
How Do I Know It? Explained above.. if the Quran contain story about Tao, balance within nature, Lao Tse and Sun Tzu then I will say it was written in China by a Chinese...

Rekkd

Origin of the Quran is from God or a person that knew the truth about our creation.

Before I would also use circular reasoning to answer your question. However, now I don't know how to prove it. Now I have 3 interpretations of the Quran Sunni, Quranist and Man of Faith's. I know the Sunni interpretation is false due to many reasons, so I have 2 left. The Quranist interpretation I feel is more fit with modern society and abit westernized but still has many unanswered questions and contradictions and alot of things that go against logic. Now MOF's interpretation is interesting but incomplete and till now he has put forth some very strong arguments. I still haven't decided 100% since I plan to do my own work and discover the true meaning of the Quran, because I trust myself more than anyone else. Once that mission is done I will gladly answer your question.

To be honest bkanwar2, no one here will give you an sufficient answer.

Noon_waalqalami

What is the origin of Quran?
How do you know it?

Peace

Mideast in Arabic ~ late 6th to early 7th century
manuscript evidence or asking something else?

Birmingham Qur?an 95.4% probability between 568-645 CE
http//www.birmingham.ac.uk/facilities/cadbury/quran-manuscript/index.aspx

http//oi68.tinypic.com/2hrpbfo.jpg

MA VI 165 Qur?an 95.4% probability between 649-675 CE
http//idb.ub.uni-tuebingen.de/diglit/MaVI165

http//oi68.tinypic.com/200crc1.jpg

bkanwar2

Origin of the Quran is from God or a person that knew the truth about our creation.

Before I would also use circular reasoning to answer your question. However, now I don't know how to prove it. Now I have 3 interpretations of the Quran Sunni, Quranist and Man of Faith's. I know the Sunni interpretation is false due to many reasons, so I have 2 left. The Quranist interpretation I feel is more fit with modern society and abit westernized but still has many unanswered questions and contradictions and alot of things that go against logic. Now MOF's interpretation is interesting but incomplete and till now he has put forth some very strong arguments. I still haven't decided 100% since I plan to do my own work and discover the true meaning of the Quran, because I trust myself more than anyone else. Once that mission is done I will gladly answer your question.

To be honest bkanwar2, no one here will give you an sufficient answer.

My salutation to you for being honest. My be we can join hands, since we share common goal and objective to find out the truth.

Regards,

good_logic

Peace bkanwar2.

I find Qoran to be numerically composed. Interlocked. Every letter and every word are locked screaming this is no work of "Bashar".

Some people may say,numerology so what? Many can come up with numerology writing with the aid of computers!

Well the only way the author of Qoran could have written it as we have it is for the numeracy to have been composed first then the literacy fitted afterwards. An impossibility even with today's computers or even tomorrows quantum computers or any ...computers.

Now you can ignore the numerology and look at some verses about this special book

Shall I seek other than God as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book FULLY DETAILED? Those who received the scripture recognize that it has been revealed from your Lord, truthfully. You shall not harbor any doubt.
The word of your Lord is COMPLETE, in truth and justice. Nothing shall abrogate His words. He is the Hearer, the Omniscient.
The day will come when we will raise from every community a witness from among them, and bring you as the witness of these people. We have revealed to you this book to provide EXPLANATIONS FOR EVERYTHING, and guidance, and mercy and good news for the submitters.
..We did not leave anything out of this book..
In their history, there is a lesson for those who possess intelligence. This is not fabricated Hadith; this (Qoran) confirms all previous scriptures, provides the DETAILS of EVERYTHING, and is a beacon and mercy for those who BELIEVE.
"This Qoran could not possibly be authored by other than God.It confirms all previous messages, and provides a FULLY DETAILED scripture. It is infallible, for it comes from the Lord of the universe." 1037
This is the straight path to your Lord. We have DETAILED the revelations for people who TAKE HEED.
We have given them a scripture that is FULLY DETAILED, with knowledge, guidance, and mercy for the people who believe.
Say, 'Whose testimony is the greatest?' Say, 'God's. He is the witness between me and you that THIS Qoran has been inspired to me, to preach to you and whomever it reaches. Indeed, you bear witness that there are other gods beside God.' Say, 'I do not testify as you do; there is only one god, and I disown your idolatry.

Do you know of any other book that makes such claims? Or are we going to differ about the translation?

I also find it amazing that unlike any other book, the Qoran is taught by God (551-2); He teaches us what we need at the time we need it. This is why we read the Qoran hundreds of times without getting bored. We can read a novel, for example, only once. But the Qoran can be read an infinite number of times, and we derive new and valuable information from it every time.

This book also claims that those who read the Qoran to find fault with it - are diverted from the Qoran (7146, 1745, 1857, 4144).In fact, God's invisible forces help them find the faults they seek. Since the Qoran is perfect, such "faults" serve only to reveal the stupidity of God's enemies.

Yes brother, this book even gives you the choice! Wow.
Proclaim "This is the truth from your Lord," then whoever wills let him believe, and whoever wills let him disbelieve.......
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Noon_waalqalami

Some people may say,numerology so what? Many can come up with numerology writing with the aid of computers!

Peace, numerology existed before computers which are used (including by numerologists) to facilitate faster searches than having to do it manually. Nothing special using computers it?s simple automation.

http//io9.gizmodo.com/the-history-of-early-computing-machines-from-ancient-t-549202742

Likewise we know structure has consistent repeatable pattern verses inconsistent numerology.

My salutation to you for being honest. My be we can join hands, since we share common goal and objective to find out the truth.

Peace -- perhaps rephrase your questions and what truth exactly are you looking for in Qur'an?

imrankhawaja

My salutation to you for being honest. My be we can join hands, since we share common goal and objective to find out the truth.

Regards,

so you are trying to say , truth is hidden from last 14 centuries... is this you are expecting from your lord?.. who left you in the middle of nowehere...

if thats what you guys are thinking you dnt really need to interpret it... just ignore this book..

NOTE

quran is the only book in which every one like scientists, astronomist , poet, geologist , language expert, and some stupids/fools are allowed to comment...

reason is simple becoz they know this book is inviting them for the challenge lets take that challenge... and intrestingly in the end they find , truth was already there ..

example is i write a book in english and i refer sun as feminie and earth as masculine...
and all other people will make me correct there , becoz they have rules of things and observations what language inherited from ages...

imrankhawaja

Origin of the Quran is from God or a person that knew the truth about our creation.

Before I would also use circular reasoning to answer your question. However, now I don't know how to prove it. Now I have 3 interpretations of the Quran Sunni, Quranist and Man of Faith's. I know the Sunni interpretation is false due to many reasons, so I have 2 left. The Quranist interpretation I feel is more fit with modern society and abit westernized but still has many unanswered questions and contradictions and alot of things that go against logic. Now MOF's interpretation is interesting but incomplete and till now he has put forth some very strong arguments. I still haven't decided 100% since I plan to do my own work and discover the true meaning of the Quran, because I trust myself more than anyone else. Once that mission is done I will gladly answer your question.

To be honest bkanwar2, no one here will give you an sufficient answer.

if you forget there are also some neutral people who translate it...
and there are also some early versions of interpretation...

and have a look into this link.. www.openburhan.com you will see 27 diff translation in urdu and english...

about MOF translation... its same like i/me/ you translate it totally relying on lexicon , becoz arabic is not his/mine native langauge ,, so why not look a translation from somebody who have grip of arabic & english both... its more easy for him to transalte ... compared to MOF whose mistakes you can see in early threads ... where he was unable to grasp the meanings of haram and suddenly a student like me bring his fault infront of him(with cross referencing) and he was stumped there...

his ideas are interesting dosent mean these are true ...

arabian nights are interesting too , but are these true?

and about questions answers , i too have lot of questions , when i could not find the answers , the similar human beings like me will also find it hard to find the answers , its mean only God knows all the answers ... and he wil let you know in which u dispute...
with respect to this . i dnt think so anybody including mof /me has any superhuman mind to crack the answers of most wise/intelligent God ...

wait and watch ...

peace

Rekkd

if you forget there are also some neutral people who translate it...
and there are also some early versions of interpretation...

and have a look into this link.. www.openburhan.com you will see 27 diff translation in urdu and english...

about MOF translation... its same like i/me/ you translate it totally relying on lexicon , becoz arabic is not his/mine native langauge ,, so why not look a translation from somebody who have grip of arabic & english both... its more easy for him to transalte ... compared to MOF whose mistakes you can see in early threads ... where he was unable to grasp the meanings of haram and suddenly a student like me bring his fault infront of him(with cross referencing) and he was stumped there...

his ideas are interesting dosent mean these are true ...

arabian nights are interesting too , but are these true?

and about questions answers , i too have lot of questions , when i could not find the answers , the similar human beings like me will also find it hard to find the answers , its mean only God knows all the answers ... and he wil let you know in which u dispute...
with respect to this . i dnt think so anybody including mof /me has any superhuman mind to crack the answers of most wise/intelligent God ...

wait and watch ...

peace

If you noticed I never used the word translation, I always used interpretation. When I said MOF's interpretation is interesting I didn't mean it made me feel joy or happiness, I meant he put a very good argument to all his work. I'm not familiar with his past mistake or his past misunderstanding but I also believe if a person doesn't always question their own belief and evolve/change/improve then that person is stubborn and ignorant. So I'm glad he changed, like most here were sunni for example but now we can all agree sunni religion is pretty much man made.

I believe we can find the answer to our creation but People are limiting their thinking and belief by saying only GOD knows the reason for our creation. Ofc God know everything since he's the creator, and whenever I had an unanswered question when I was younger till now.. The answer was always "only God knows", which I find is only limiting and prevents people from asking more and seeking the truth. What you did is exactly like what Sunni clerics do when they don't have an answer.

Now im not a MOF fanboy or anything, he doesn't pay my bills and doesn't put food on my table. But even if his work is very different, the guy puts soo much effort that I sometimes I feel like I'm not doing enough to find the truth. So yes I believe if you put effort and dedication anything is possible, especially when it comes to seeking knowledge.

There existed superminds and there will always be but only a few. It's just different how they use this acquired skill...

Rekkd

My salutation to you for being honest. My be we can join hands, since we share common goal and objective to find out the truth.

Regards,

Ofc it's always the questions that are considered taboo or have not yet been answered that hold great value. Honesty is key especially in this matter and I hope you keep sharing your findings with us

imrankhawaja

If you noticed I never used the word translation, I always used interpretation. When I said MOF's interpretation is interesting I didn't mean it made me feel joy or happiness, I meant he put a very good argument to all his work. I'm not familiar with his past mistake or his past misunderstanding but I also believe if a person doesn't always question their own belief and evolve/change/improve then that person is stubborn and ignorant. So I'm glad he changed, like most here were sunni for example but now we can all agree sunni religion is pretty much man made.

I believe we can find the answer to our creation but People are limiting their thinking and belief by saying only GOD knows the reason for our creation. Ofc God know everything since he's the creator, and whenever I had an unanswered question when I was younger till now.. The answer was always "only God knows", which I find is only limiting and prevents people from asking more and seeking the truth. What you did is exactly like what Sunni clerics do when they don't have an answer.

Now im not a MOF fanboy or anything, he doesn't pay my bills and doesn't put food on my table. But even if his work is very different, the guy puts soo much effort that I sometimes I feel like I'm not doing enough to find the truth. So yes I believe if you put effort and dedication anything is possible, especially when it comes to seeking knowledge.

There existed superminds and there will always be but only a few. It's just different how they use this acquired skill...

brother there is no sunni in the system of God... only peacemaking is the system of God...
there are always two things...
evil & good
fair & unfair
negetive & positive
light & dark
beleiver & disbeleiver
peacemaker & trouble maker...

then you labelling them as arab, hindu, muslim, christian, jew buddist whatever you inherited from your ancesters...

about the interpretation.. i suggest you to focus on this...

37 He is the One who sent down to you the book, from which there are definite signs; they are the essence of the book; and others, which are multiple-meaning. As for those who have disease in their hearts, eager to cause confusion and eager to derive their interpretation, they will follow what is multiple-meaning from it. But none knows their meaning except God and those who are well founded in knowledge; they say, "We acknowledge it, all is from our Lord." None will remember except the people of intellect

thats the beauty of this book.. same like a living organism and living/moving earth this is live book from last many centuries
thats how God perfected it for the truth seekers...

and one more...

1314 To Him is the call of truth. And those who are called on besides Him, they will not respond to them in anything; like one who places his hands openly in the water to drink, except it never reaches his mouth. The call of the rejecters is nothing but in misguidance.

peace and God bless you in your journey...

Rekkd

brother there is no sunni in the system of God... only peacemaking is the system of God...
there are always two things...
evil & good
fair & unfair
negetive & positive
light & dark
beleiver & disbeleiver
peacemaker & trouble maker...

then you labelling them as arab, hindu, muslim, christian, jew buddist whatever you inherited from your ancesters...

about the interpretation.. i suggest you to focus on this...

37 He is the One who sent down to you the book, from which there are definite signs; they are the essence of the book; and others, which are multiple-meaning. As for those who have disease in their hearts, eager to cause confusion and eager to derive their interpretation, they will follow what is multiple-meaning from it. But none knows their meaning except God and those who are well founded in knowledge; they say, "We acknowledge it, all is from our Lord." None will remember except the people of intellect

thats the beauty of this book.. same like a living organism and living/moving earth this is live book from last many centuries
thats how God perfected it for the truth seekers...

and one more...

1314 To Him is the call of truth. And those who are called on besides Him, they will not respond to them in anything; like one who places his hands openly in the water to drink, except it never reaches his mouth. The call of the rejecters is nothing but in misguidance.

peace and God bless you in your journey...

The verses you just quoted are according to another person's interpretation.

imrankhawaja

The verses you just quoted are according to another person's interpretation.

you can challange the interpretation , if you feel they interpret it wrong... and bring your interpretation with proof of language in hand... (with cross referencing and meanings of words in arabic)

if God is saying in arabic... 2+2= 4 you interpret it as 2+2= 4 in english whats wrong in it...

if the color of grass is green , i will interpret it as green... its another matter what make it green.. blue + yellow also make green...

but it does not mean i interpret the green color as mixture of blue and yellow

same what bkanwar brother is doing...

let me tell you one thing if i say to somebody i bring television in home...
and another choice is i bring a far view in my home..?

thats whats tele -vision actually mean...

Rekkd

you can challange the interpretation , if you feel they interpret it wrong... and bring your interpretation with proof of language in hand... (with cross referencing and meanings of words in arabic)

if God is saying in arabic... 2+2= 4 you interpret it as 2+2= 4 in english whats wrong in it...

if the color of grass is green , i will interpret it as green... its another matter what make it green.. blue + yellow also make green...

but it does not mean i interpret the green color as mixture of blue and yellow

same what bkanwar brother is doing...

let me tell you one thing if i say to somebody i bring television in home...
and another choice is i bring a far view in my home..?

thats whats tele -vision actually mean...

You just said I could be deceived by other people's interpretation. I'm also telling you that you are also using another person(s) interpretation. I'm not challenging what the verses are sayin according to that interpretation. But what applies to me also applies to you.

Maybe the interpreter did that on purpose to never be challenged. Actually if you read the Quran in Sunni or Shia interpretations you will have these same verses with the same translation. Meaning if you go for a Quranist interpretation according to them then you are being deceived.

I'm not very good at explaining my thoughts/point of view it's always been a weakness but I hope you got the message.

imrankhawaja

You just said I could be deceived by other people's interpretation. I'm also telling you that you are also using another person(s) interpretation. I'm not challenging what the verses are sayin according to that interpretation. But what applies to me also applies to you.

Maybe the interpreter did that on purpose to never be challenged. Actually if you read the Quran in Sunni or Shia interpretations you will have these same verses with the same translation. Meaning if you go for a Quranist interpretation according to them then you are being deceived.

I'm not very good at explaining my thoughts/point of view it's always been a weakness but I hope you got the message.

i actually get what you are trying to say...

but , i send you a recommended translation (not interpretation)
the recommended translation must be go through language check before it get passed...

let start from a example a simple word (haram)
quranist , sunni, shia, christian ... all of them translated as prohibted , and when put this word on other occassions of quran it gives the actual meanings... all of them translated as prohibted.. and the one who have commmand on arabic when he try to explain what haram is , english language offer that word ... thats called language check...

now a person challange that translation ... and he bring his proofs...
he said its mean blessed instead of haram...
and when we filter it through quran we found it problemtic...
when we filter it through langauge barries , this word stuck again there...

now you know thats how translation work... (interpretation or explaination) of Book only the author know...

even if you try to interpret the arabic into english u will use the same sources and tools what everybody is using ...

which will evetually give you similar translation what i posted ... you can also break the words called literal translation ...

you are saying i gave you another person interpretation?...(actually i gave you translation of arabic into english) not interpretation...

imrankhawaja

the author selected that word there.. in english this word translated as interpretation...

for understanding this word the two events from quran i will highlight where author used this word.

the dreams interpretation...(in joseph story)
the events interpretation (in moses story)

i know what i had in dream...( a blue car) its translation of my dream its interpretation only God knows, joseph was commanded in it too...