Hi Everyone and Peace
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Hi Everyone & Peace,
Since the last 10 years and from someone who believed in nothing much, I found God by reading the Quran - PS - I read it to find out why Muslims resort to terrorism...but got sucked into the message of the Quran and found myself to be a Muslim.
Since then and wondering to various Mosques for the congregation prayer, I always felt I didn't fit in to the cultural parts of "Islam" that I saw.
I had a discussion with my Dad at the time (who is a Sunni Muslim) about the Hadith and how I found them difficult to digest and that it didn't make sense for God to send us the Quran (a single Book) with volumes of so called Hadith that contain never-ending appendices based on cultural aspects and speculative understandings of what someone allegedly saw somemone do.
I was really shocked at how he clung to the Hadiths.I moved from one group to another of so called schools and sects of Muslims - trying to understand if I could find one that made sense to me, but none of them ever did.
So I dwelt outside the Muslim community - finding far more comfort (and spirituality), then when they used to tell me to brush my teeth a certain way or wear my trousers a certain way.
For 2 years I have read the Quran everyday - trying to learn Arabic - its still goinig very slowly but I started to try and live my life according to what I understood from the Quran.
I came accross a few Utube videos by people like Sam Gerrens and Quran Centric that really opened up my understanding and then I found this forum.
The reason I am joining is to learn from the more blessed ones and to connect with those who are struggling like me.
I have been trying to understand what Salat is and when Ramadan is. I read a few threads on here, but still have not understood how its supposed to be according to the Quran alone.
I perform two "Salat" a day (Fajr & Isha) - that consists of some haphazard bowing and prostrating and my compulsory reading of the Quran in Arabic and English (with lots of dictionaries!).
I used to perform a Wusta Salat - but am not sure of this anymore after trying to figure out what the "middle" of the day actually is... and what Wusta could mean ie, Balanced, Just etc..... Boy its so confusing when you are on your own.
I am particularly fearful of Trojan Horse scholars who have agendas - like possibly the ones who talk about Petra or the Flat Earth... etc....
Anyway, thats enough for now I guess.
I look forward to connecting.
Best Wishes and Salaam
Ed -
Peace EdQ.
There is no easy answer ,except from yourself.
Yes, even those who provide so called"proof" or good "logic" ,one needs to double check and confirm their own truth.
In short ,with pain there is gain. Then you have only yourself to blame at GOD s.Of course one can learn and see what others have to say( like read the members posts here,some seem interesting and worth the read),but keep trusting only on GOD Alone to teach you His words/Qoran.
Welcome and GOD bless.
Peace. -
Hi good logic - Peace to you too,
Thanks for the welcome.
You are correct in saying that the answer will come from me and only me reading the Quran; at the same time to engage with like minded individuals is the reason I have joined this forum - and to read their views on subjects of great importance to me. It makes the journey easier and directs you based on actual proof that can be validated.
Indeed I would go further and say that there are a number of posters on this forum whose views I read and which I was able to back up using the Quran. Their validation, of my at least my questions and their approaches to get the answers gave me some hope in joining the forum. I am looking forward to engaging with such like minded people. It is more enlightening to be on these kinds of forums than to go to the local Mosque and get told to to something cultural in the name or religion or have Hadith read out to you.... (God Forbid!)
I have been reading the Quran for 10 years, but a month of enaging with like minded people on You Tube and other forums has allowed me to take strides forward - strides that spiritually fulfill me.
Thanks again and Peace.
EdQ -
hi edQ welcome to the family..
about ur query about salat, first you need to understand what salat is while doing it make ur machinery of mind at default position... just forget what u learn, what you see , what you inherited..
you need to understand the book is complete in the subject when it deals with.. its dosent mean complete in every sense to tell us that grass is green...
now coming back to the topic of salat...
i was always confuse too.. in the start but if i tell you the natural law of things and understandings you will see
a scientist first discover a telephone quite bigger in size, poor in voice quality , use wires etc
scientist praised by lot of people for his discovery..
stage after stage the discovery get updated towards betterment,advancement,
there is no need to use that discovery in old shape..
the shape what bukhari and company bring in us today..
they were thinking thats the code of salat.. according to their understanding what is inherited to them by persian conspirisy..
now you need to check all the root of salat,sujood and see quran is complete in the subject of salat..interestingly the salat of quran is bit different from the practice what muslims are doing today ..
when they ask you the first question , like this. ok tell us how you perform salah according to quran? thats a very old question and the answer of this question is..how can you find a way when you add something by your own wish in religion and seeking answers for thing that never existed at first place...
example the real salt is in quran..
the created salat by secterians is in hadith ..if you are looking the ways of created salat , then you will never find it it quran, becoz its created and simply not from God instructions..
if you are looking for real salat what quran suggest you will eventually come up with different meanings and findings ..
its very easy to understand.. but traditionalist are asking questions of created salat , their question itself is invalid.. becoz they beleive that salat is missing in quran so quran is incomplete book , then its easy for them to make people beleive on book outside of quran.. in which they will find what they wish
lets compare salat with science .. let say bukhari interpret earth as flat some people still having a faith on his interpretation and rejecting all science math, and space agencies.. but did quran said earth is flat?
they keep telling you the created salat is missing in quran, but did quran said the salat is missing ?
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Hi imrankhawaja, Salaam,
And thanks for your advice and kind words.
You point out alot of questions I have asked myself in the past, which I guess you have also been through.
For example, I have read in the Quran that when The Quran was read to the believers they "fell down" - I am aware that RUKU and SUJUD could also have meanings other than physical movements as some have pointed out, but then again, if they were not physical movements, then why would the believers "fall down" when they heard the scripture of God? To me it means that perhaps bowing and prostration are indeed a part of the WROSHIP of God - very possibly even a part of SALAT (of which Worship is a part).
So for me currently the two times of Salat are before and upto and around Sunrise (Fajr Salat) - and then around and sunset till the dark of night (Isha Salat).
For me, Salat consists of reading the Quran and trying to understand the message, Supplication (Dua), Remebrance (Reading Quran as well as other forms of glorification and praising God) as well as bowing and prostration. I have not set units of bowing and prostration and I simply read Surah Fatiha and a few
surahs and then bow and prostrate - and then end the worship part by testifying there is not God but the One and Only God. The God who is full of Goodness and Mercy.
So Salat for me is 1 hr of reading Quran > Bowing and Prostration Worship > Supplication > Rembrance (Dhikr) > Last Prostration once.I know you say that Salat is easy - but if we are to take a consensus, it seems to me that each Quranist Muslim has their own way of performing Salat.
Now, if God's message was intended to be easy to understand in plain Arabic speech, then it wouldn't be so difficult for Quranist Muslims to reach an easy to reach consensus. I guess the problem is that there are many English meanings for words like Salat.
I don't have much time for Hadithists to tell you the truth and it used to upset me alot when they started to recite parts of Hadiths - as if the Quran doesn't take a lifetime of reading and understanding.
I have to say that to this day, I cannot find any definition in English that fits properly into the Salat word in the Quran, be it, Bondage, Education-Process, Following, Contact, Connect etc etc... The fact that even experts in languages have problems with finding one word must mean that Salat is not easy to define.
One thing is for sure, that the Hadithist Salat is strange - because sometimes they call it WORSHIP which does not make sense in many passages. They then substitute it with BLESSINGS and PRAYERS and SUPPLICATION where-ever they wish - without any criteria. So when they talk about two units or 3 units or 4 units etc... that is without any proof from the Quran.
Its a bit like me saying that the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy is my Hadith and it explains things that are not in the Quran - and without which Muslims would never know how to be "Good Muslims". Its quite a weak position but I guess when one is so deep in it, it is difficult to dig oneself out...The Hadithists are very similar to Christians who hold the Bible to be the word of God (or Jewish folk who hold the Talmud to be attributable to God). They have taken man-made literature that was written years after the death of Moses or The Christ or The Seal of the Prophets and tried to attribute things to the religion that these messengers advocated to humans. The fact that there are collectively nearly 4 billion of these folk who believe in fiction and man-made sayings is sad - especially when they overlook the Word of God.
I am still trying hard to learn, but this is where I am today.....
Maybe with some interaction with the "family" here, I can get a better understanding God-Willing.
I am really keen to understand more about Ramadan, when it is, what fasting means and how long to fast for. There are some great posts on this forum but I still haven't understood the conclusions of those posts yet to be able to verify for myself...
Regards & Salaam
Ed -
peace brother,
yes inshAllah you will learn lot of things here, i m not expert in anything specific but , i m good in verifying information what is in hand..
there are lot of people in this forum , who are better in understanding than me in different things like numerology, language,history, tradition,science and understanding quran the way it should understand by cross refrencing.. i hope u ll learn things . if a witty person analyse the message of quran its actually the same like i told you before , step by step improving of understanding things...
if you read the articles of brother wakas on salat , sujood, tasbeeh, timings its a good start . but he write it in such a way that if you read it multiple times its better...
about ramadan after struggling in understanding which is still in process like other things.. i preferably selecting the second option from last two years .. like giving ransom to poor(instead of keeping fast) before that i use to keep all the fasts and i start that when i was 8 years old..
but as i was telling you learning process is also interpretated as salat in some sense..
in general salat is not just a ritual pray its broader than that...but i suggest you to use your own mind in all these things thats what the system of life is everyhwere..
like if you sit with driver of car ten years , u ll not learn drive.. u must need to drive a car for learning it...
so after reading the articles and differennt stuff get a conclusion with the sincerity that it God alone you submitting/sujoodthats what the reality is , he knows and judge by heart .. not by actions/gymnastics/declaring
if the voice of your heart is pure and the niyaat(innnerside) of your heart is turning towards God then whatever you do with whatever pattern it will be accepted...thats what i beleive...
i know my salat(learning process in different things) stuggle/seek/trust/understand
birds know their salat
angels know their salat
and inshallah you get to know your salat if you really want to know.. -
Thanks for the welcome Comrox and Peace to you too!
Thanks again imrankhawaja for the recommedations of posters to look out for on here.
I must confess that I am not a big fan of numerology - and I will qualify this I accept that when a pattern repeats itself based on specific numbers in the Quran - it could be of potential relevance - especially the number 19. Here I admit I do have an open mind.
However, when meanings and sounds are assigned to numbers based on different cultures and traditions - ie the Alphanumeric system as some call it, then I feel the same thing is happening when Hadithists apply their cultural rules to the Quran to change the true message.
This is especially true when one considers that God gave the Quran in clear Arabic speech so all could understand it. Not for us to be experts in numerology - and furthermore, not even to have an appendix in the Quran (from God) that would show us that Numerology is needed for us to somehow be more firm believers.I have nothing against numerologists, whether they be of the i-Ching, Kabbalah or other types.
I refer back to the words in the Quran that the message is simple and those who seek deeper meanings - especially based on their hobbies and interests are possibly missing the actualy first spiritual message.
Also, lets say that the Quran has a first level message that is meant for all humanity - to go past this to numbers to prove that the first message is true means that a particular reader who needs to do this has missed the first message. Its like the curse of today when we need to use science to prove everything - it seems people have made maths and science their gods. Yet, maths and science are very much like logic - it can be used to justify absolutely anything you want - case in example i) there is global warning ii) there is not global warming.
What people dont realize is that the prevalent culture uses science in a very selective manner to justify what it wants to justify.
Then when you add that Science is run by corporate interests then you will see how much of a false god Science has become.
Think about Tobacco companies who are not only providing direct research funding for, but also themselves, researching on cancer diagnostics - I mean what is the point of this?
Do the Tobacco companies want to diagnose cancer in tobacco smokers so that they can sell them a different brand of tobacco or try and heal them a bit so they can sell them more tobacco in the longer term. It all seems twisted.I have seen numerology applied to different texts to prove certain things. And that is fine for those who want to do it.
But for me, I belive in the Quran and don't require the use of numbers to validate my belief in the Quran.
Regards and Peace
Ed