Help for a new believer

Fred-Noahide

I'm struggling with what it means to be a believer and how to be righteous.

I was praying and meditating today while in my family?s church service. (My wife and family is all Christians). I saw (or perhaps imagined) this intense, overpowering light. I stammered to explain myself and could only state There is no god, but God.? All my studies and attempts at philosophy fell flat in that moment.

I call myself a mystic or maybe a contemplative and have studied Zen and Kabbalah and have a strong meditative practice. But all of that needs to go back to Him alone. So I need to work on the basics I think and the Quran?s wisdom definitely speaks to me. But I also need to stay grounded in Allah?s guidance and mercy and not in my own understanding.

Shabbat (the sabbath) starts tonight, so I won't be using my phone or computer for till tommorow night. I'll reply then. Please pray for me and I will keep all of you in my prayers.

Shalom Shabbat and salam alaikum,
Fred

HP_TECH

Salamu Alaykum

What exactly are you struggling with?
How do you study the Quran?

Patience and Prayer are key Fred

good_logic

Peace Fred.
There is a surah called"The Believers"
231
Successful indeed are the believers;

232
who are reverent in their Salat.(Fi Salaatihim)

233
And they avoid vain talk.

...
238
When it comes to things entrusted to them, as well as any agreements they make, they are trustworthy.

239
And they observe their Salat regularly.( Li Salaatihim Haafidoon)

2310
Such are the inheritors.

...
You are on the right track,reflecting,praying,meditating...etc i.e..seeking a relationship with the Lord!
We notice that "Salat" is mentioned twice. I believe deliberately,GOD wants us to "connect" with him day and night(FI- Salaatihim Khaashioon) and (Li Salaatihim Haafidoon). For us to succeed and stay "believers" we need GOD s help every day,hence we need GOD in our mind 24/7 and to "connect" with HIM regularly through prayer,meditation,tasbeeh/Dhikr... i.e GOD must be our number one priority.
Love GOD with all our hearts,with all our minds,with all...
Keep up your prayer and meditation to your Lord,day and night.
May the Lord support you and bless you.
Peace

mmkhan

I'm struggling with what it means to be a believer and how to be righteous.

So I need to work on the basics I think and the Quran?s wisdom definitely speaks to me. But I also need to stay grounded in Allah?s guidance and mercy and not in my own understanding.

Salaamun Fred,

Speak to Allah, talk to Him, listen and follow whatever He guides you towards. That is the best guidance I found till now.

Wakas

You're struggling with how to be righteous?

Be kind, honest, charitable, humble, helpful, sincere etc.

Knowing what to do is not as difficult as actually doing it I think. There is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path. My advice start walking.

EdQ

Salam Fred,

I hope you are having a blessed Sabath and that if it is the will of God, He guides you towards the truth.

Being Righteous or to do the good and right thing is only something we can just continue to strive for because of our very nature of being fallible humans made of flesh and eating earthly food and having earthly desires and being always prone to being unrighteous. Asking God to constantly instill and inspire in us the criteria of right and wrong will help us so that we can be conscience of these criteria in our everyday life.

In other words to be righteous can only be to strive because I don't think that even the prophets/messengers were always righteous during their stint in this lower life.

It seems to me that you are at least on the path and neither I not any other human being can truly now if and when you get there or if you are already there.

Your righteousness (or at least to fully strive for it) is something that God will grant you. In the Quran, God says that one can only believe 1) if one first changes that which is one's heart 2) if God wills for one to be led aright - in the sense that as much as anyone here or elsewhere wants you to be a believer or prays/supplicates for you to be a a believer, you cannot and will not unless both of the above two conditions are met.

I think that 1) changing what is in our heart consists primarily of an acknowledgment that there is no god but The ONE True God. And then 2) to ask God for help (through meditation and supplication).
It is not important where you are but it would probably help if you are not in an environment which is littered with symbols that are contrary to the - There is No god by The One and True God rule. So your own home would probably be better than a Church (especially one that espouses trinity) or another place of worship that confuses man-made books with The Message of The One and True God.

Salam
Ed

imrankhawaja

Knowing what to do is not as difficult as actually doing it I think. There is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path. My advice start walking.

indeed very beautiful words ...

and very logical ,

Fred-Noahide

Thank you everyone for your advice, it's been helpful. I've been trying to put into coherent thoughts what I'm struggling with.

I think that Allah has been leading me for some time on a mystic or contemplative, almost monastic path towards Him. I'll use Allah here (perhaps I could Adonai or HaShem) because?God? has too much theological/Christian/anthropomorphic baggage for me.

Ed, I think you mentioned before your wariness of much of mysticism with numerology and hidden meanings and esotericism. I completely agree with you. This forum as well as reading the Quran has helped me refine my ?mysticism? as a seeking Allah directly (apart from human authority or doctrines) and developing a practice of good deeds or righteousness.

The message of Quran, I think, is that it extends identifying idolatry beyond just polytheism to also include the additions and corruptions of prophets by mankind and it's religions. ?There is no god but Allah? and make no ?partners? with Him.
Rumi says
?Our death is our wedding with eternity.
What is the secret? "God is One."?

Okay? but righteousness. I think Wakas is right that to be good, I need start acting good and I'm sure I'm overthinking it. I know that morality and self-examination are keys to getting closer to Allah. I can pray all I want but if I'm still a selfish and mean person it won't work. Also i know how I treat others is more important than ritual purity or following ritual laws.
But I still have trouble knowing how and what to practice. Somethings like no pork, no alcohol are easy for me to give up and they are meaningful reminders to me of my dedication. They also are clearly prohibited in the Quran and the Torah (pork at least).
But what about more complicated examples like the Sabbath. The Quran doesn't command it, I don't think.
The Torah says ?Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work; but the seventh day is a sabbath unto the LORD thy God, in it thou shalt not do any manner of work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy man-servant, nor thy maid-servant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested on the seventh day; wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.? Exodus 208-10
I know that I can't take the Torah literally because the original message of Moses has surely been altered some. But the sabbath is one of the Ten Commandments and is probably important.
So I'm not supposed to do any manner of work. The Rabbis, from the Talmud, say this means no form of ?creation? which includes lighting a candle or turning on a electronic device. No driving, no lights, no use of my cell phone.
My family is Christian and following every letter of this would cause major tension. But even that aside, while I don't think it would be wrong to be so zealous, I don't find it meaningful to not drive my kids to playground or call my parents or so on. It feels like man-made laws only. Yet, today I worked on not checking Facebook or playing games and being more engaged in my family and in nature and could definitely see a value in that once a week. I work as a therapist in a small nursing home, so I rarely work on saturdays but if I did I feel I still should because otherwise people would not be seen and their health might suffer. The Rabbis make an exception for healthcare workers on the sabbath.
There are tons of other examples
Should I emigrate to a Muslim country or make the pilgrimage as the Quran says?
Should I eat shellfish prohibited in the Torah but not the Quran?
Should I cover my head to pray and/or wear Tefillin?

So that was a long explanation, but it's tough for me to discern what is really Allah?s will for me (because I will follow Him if I were to be clear of His will for me), what is optional but beneficial, and what is spiritual pride and not helpful. I currently try to use what ?feels? like the right thing, but I know that's a risky way to do it.

P.S. Ed, yeah I agree with you I need to pray outside of a church filled with associations with idolatry. I felt some of that confrontation with the intense light was like ?explain yourself, why are you here but not Christian.? I pray throughout the day and in church I try to pray on my own and tune out the service/teachings that are idolatrous.

amin

Welcome and Salam,

God is one right, but people see and understand God in different ways, each according to his guidance and understanding. Most Seeing him when they are blessed with and take those things as His signs.

As God is sacred meaning He is beyond grasp, not many muslims think this as an important message of Quran, The masjid al Haram denotes this.

Polytheism comes only when one starts fighting that His version of God is only true and others wrong, again to remind He is Sacred and Beyond grasp, He Guides whomsoever He wills with whatever signs or ways.

Jafar

I'm struggling with what it means to be a believer and how to be righteous.

I was praying and meditating today while in my family?s church service. (My wife and family is all Christians). I saw (or perhaps imagined) this intense, overpowering light. I stammered to explain myself and could only state There is no god, but God.? All my studies and attempts at philosophy fell flat in that moment.

I call myself a mystic or maybe a contemplative and have studied Zen and Kabbalah and have a strong meditative practice. But all of that needs to go back to Him alone. So I need to work on the basics I think and the Quran?s wisdom definitely speaks to me. But I also need to stay grounded in Allah?s guidance and mercy and not in my own understanding.

Shabbat (the sabbath) starts tonight, so I won't be using my phone or computer for till tommorow night. I'll reply then. Please pray for me and I will keep all of you in my prayers.

Shalom Shabbat and salam alaikum,
Fred

Shalom

Treat others you would like to be treated.
In any situation, always trust your conscience as God speaks through it
Cut through religious / sectarian / nationality / races / ethnicity barrier (pride and hatred) and see the soul within others.
Accept everything that happened as it all happened in accordance to God's will... Let Your will be done on earth as it's in heaven.

good_logic

Peace Fred,All.
If we are "believers" then we should not divide into different religions created by shayateen to divert from "GOD Alone"
Labelling is leading us astray and creating "idols"and strife.
Basically this is what GOD did/does throughout the humans existence
We did not send any messenger before you except with the inspiration "There is no god except Me; you shall serve/worship Me alone."
We have sent a messenger to every community, saying, "You shall serve/worship God, and avoid idolatry." Subsequently, some were guided by God, while others were committed to straying. Roam the earth and note the consequences for the rejectors.

This is the only religion authorized by God, representing the one message that is contained in all of His scriptures and has been delivered by all of His messengers (319- Islam-)and
Say, "We believe in God, and in what was sent down to us, and in what was sent down to Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, and the Patriarchs; and in what was given to Moses and Jesus, and all the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction among any of them. To Him alone we are "Muslimeen"."

Idolatry has been a pattern since the early generations. Humans have been shifting the focus of their belief away from" God alone"to some made up religion.
According to Qoran, both message and messenger perform the same sole duty of delivering the word of God. We support the prophets and the messengers by embracing "Islam" to GOD Alone.
Our responsibility is to be careful and not create our own"sect" by inventing another religion to the generations that will follow.
Redefining true"Islam" or rather highlighting the misconception, is our duty.
GOD bless .
Peace

Fred-Noahide

I started a new thread, not sure if you all saw it
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9609414.0

EdQ

Salam Fred,

Sorry for the delay in replying but I went through a busy period and was not able to be in front of my own laptop to respond.

I guess you are taking part in Sabbath today too.

This reminds me to pick up on one particular point where you mentioned that Sabbath exists to celebrate the Lord God resting on the 7th Day. The Christians celebrate this on Sunday don't they?

Either way, here's what it evoked in terms of ideas in me

God is omnipotent, omnipresent and omnscient.
So for me if He is omnipotent, He would not need to rest.
When I try to understand this concept I start to think that in the Quran we are told that He mounted the throne after the creation.
Indeed I can imagine how this could conjur up ideas of resting, but instead, I believe that He mounted the Throne to administer justice upon ALL of his creation.
In other words that He mounted this "Throne" - which is not a chair - where we can imagine an old guy with grey hair sitting and watching over us - but He is everywhere through being seated on the Throne. The Throne from which all our lives are destined.
I believe that God is here in front of me behind a hidden barrier that I cannot see - and in front of all of us - in another dimension, yet perfectly aware of us, our actions and what is in our hearts.
I imagine that if that barrier were to be broken it would cause a release of energy so great that it would topple a mountain - as happened to Moses when God appeared to him.

So for me, God is omnipotent, He has no need to rest - He is the Alive, The Eternal and there is NOTHING that is of "HIS" likeness even though mankind want to imagine Him with our one-dimensional capabilties.

Another really interesting concept I have thought alot about is Destiny or as Holywood-infused folk now call it - "Kismet".

ie, If God knows everything past, preset, future, then what will do we have.

I found the answer in the Quran - that God does indeed preordain EVERYTHING that HAPPENS to us in this lower life, but he has allowed us to be aware of our next moves - ie our intentions to do good or bad.
He still knows our intentions but I believe (I seek refuge in God from Satan the Outcast) that He does not want to know what we WILL do - but that he leaves it only for us to know. Of course He knows our thoughts and actions and desires and whether we will have live or die tomorrow or today or whether it will rain tomorrow or not - but only we know what we will do NEXT after each millisecond. How and what we do is what is used by Him to judge us - so life becomes like a preordained circuit that we have to go through - and how we react to different situations is how we are judged.....

Just a few thoughts on Saturday morning and looking foward to your feedback.

Regards and Salaam.
Ed

Fred-Noahide

Ed,

Thanks for your thoughts.

A side note on the Throne. In some early Kabbalah (Jewish mysticism) there are writings on the throne of God, similar style to the beginning of Ezekiel. I think they are to be used for visualization meditation going on about the vast size and grandeur of the throne, surrounded by angels. It's cool stuff. But this may be against the anti-anthropomorphic emphasis in Islam which in my humble opinion is also important to maintain. If your interested though look up chariot or merkabah mysticism.

About the Sabbath,

The last few days I've been praying and studying a lot. I think that after studying the prophecies about the messiah in the Torah that Jesus is/was the Messiah. I think Jesus came to return Judiasm to the true Law and to focus on compassion and justice not self-righteous legalism. It's interesting that's this is still a Musliums view!

Specially on the sabbath, Jesus says this when confronted on why he healed and gathered food on the Sabbath.
Mark 227 "And He was saying to them, ?The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath."
I think what he means is that the point of the Law, the Sabbath included, are to lead men closer to God and to treat each other with justice and love. So I defiantly don't think that "violating" the Sabbath by cooking a meal or going into work to cover a shift would cause you to "be cut off" as the Orthodox Jews say. And you right God doesn't really "rest" nor "work" like we do.
I don't think as some Christians do though, that the Law is abolished now. I think Paul says all things are lawful for me. But we still need to serve and submit to Allah and do good deeds as much as we can and to repent for our evil deeds.
So I think I should keep the Sabbath "holy". I should make sure it is a day of prayer and devotion and not just another day. Maybe not even because it's commanded but for me I already have too much taking away my attention the other 6 days, I need one day to put it aside and remember what is truly important. I'm still working on exactly how I'll do that. Maybe just saying no to the unnecessary and unimportant things like computer games or social media or binge watching TV that distract me the rest of the week. Maybe making more time for longer prayers and studying scripture and intentional family time or date nights.

What do you think?

EdQ

Salam Fred,

To tell you the truth, the Last Testament (Quran) tells us that the previous scriptures have many parts that are hidden or modified so for me personally, the message in the Quran is the one that takes precedence.
For me, the bible - at least the version that publically exists, is like the Hadith - it was not even writen by Jesus, or in his time - but by a 3rd party.

Thus for me, the Sabbath has not been enjoined in the Quran and as I mentioned, the idea that God who is omnipotent has a need for resting does not make sense.

The other thing is that the tribe of Juda - from where Judaism comes, is only one of the many tribes who belong to the children of Israel - so perhaps the message that has been modified or hidden in the Torah would not be only for the tribe of Judah but also for the other tribes - making it a religion for all tribes.

I think i mentioned in my previous posts on another thread that the real religion is not Christianity or Judaism, but that of submission to God Alone.
As such for me, the Torah came first and then God abbrogated some of the laws by sending The Messiah (with the Gospel) and because the Gosple was hidden from mankind, we were given the Final Testament, The Quran.

Therefore, to understand and live by the final draft of God's Laws (The Quran) seems to me to be the best ideal - then after that I can and will read the modified and edited scriptures that are in the Torah and Gospel - but only accepting what Final Testament can validate in the earlier scriptures.

I think that you are fine to follow what you believe to be the truth. I am sure God will tell us all in the hereafter who was closer or further from the straight path. And I am sure He will judge between us all with ultimate fairness and justice. I am also sure there will be many people of all "faiths" and "religions" who believe in Him alone, who will be judged aright.

Regards and Salaam
Ed

Fred-Noahide

Ed,

Thank you for your friendship and your replies. The forum has really helped me refine my understanding and encourage me, as you said, to submit to God alone.

I understand that you take the authority of the Quran over all other texts in areas of divergence. This is a central teaching of Islam that Muhammad is not just anothrr prophet and the Quran is not just another religious text, but rather the perfect and full revelation than had been previously corrupted and incomplete. I apologize if I challenged this view. I don't know if I can accept that Islam is any more perfect or true of a religion than any other nor that the Quran is a more perfect expression of God's fever than previous texts. However my preference for the Torah is mostly stylistic and some of Jewish traditions appeal more to my religious aesthetics. I don't think that praying in Hebrew is any more or less effective than in Arabic. Given enough time I may try to learn both.

But again I acknowledge we have a fundamental difference that should be respected. As far as Allah judging between us, I sincerely pray that I will be judged on my heart and good actions and not on my theology which is likely in error!!

I'm looking into more universalist viewpoints since I think that is where I'm being led; to discard human categories. But i appreciate everyone's help and I will continue to study the Quran. It's truly a wonderful and deeply inspired text.

-Fred

good_logic

Peace Fred.
You are right. Continue on your understanding until GOD takes you to the next stage according to His knowledge of your inner most thoughts/intentions.
Please also see my last post(the one before this post) in another thread about "judging others". GOD is the only judge.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

EdQ

Salam Fred,

There is no need to apologise at all. My personal views are my personal views. Your are yours and I am sure we both respect that.

My expressions and reiteration of the Quran being the Final Testament of the same religion (as the Torah & Gospel) were indeed meant to express a sense of universalism or of only one real universal faith which is for all humans to submit to God.

I live in an area where there is a strong orthodox Jewish community. I like the way they live and their general conservatism in many matters of life.
There is also a strong Asian/Arab community very close by which I think many see as Muslim (indeed many wear symbols to show this) and which is very cultural/symbolic.
There are also lots of Christian churches... mostly protestant but some also catholic and orthodox.

I have noticed a large number of local protestant Christians converting to Catholicism and Judaism.

I cannot but help but see the cultural ease of these conversions. Ie I feel that it is an easy and natural cultural step to go from Protestantism to Catholicism or to Judaism especially when the people see the cultural closeness of these paths in contrast to the Asian/Arab culture/symbols that many mistake for Islam.

My personal view is that a universalist path, which we all seek, may be facilitated by trying to transcend the cultural ones.
This indeed has been a major reason for me steering away from Hadthist cultural ideas.

I wish you all the best on your own and personal spiritual journey.

Salam
Ed