Greetings from Germany!
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actually make it simple..
how many salats are there in quran?
answer must b like this ..
by name 2 are confirm
salat al fajar
salat al ishaone is possibilty
al salat al wusta
so the theories of 0, 5, or anynumber become invalid as per Quran alone..
about the possible third one " the word al is worth pondering about"
0 becomes invalid? If you mean for salat to mean a physical prayer, then I beg to differ.
3356 says "yusalluuna"
You mean to tell me that God and His angels do a "ritual prayer" upon the prophet?
2218 says "yasjudu" traditionally translated to "prostrate"
You mean to tell me that God and His angels do a "physical prostration" to what is in the heavens and what is on the earth, and the sun and the moon and the stars and the mountains and the trees and what moves, and many of the people, and many who have deserved the retribution.
258 uses "sujjadan" with regard to entering a city. It is not possible to enter a city with one's forehead on the ground.
124 Yusuf/Joseph has a dream in which eleven planets and the sun and the moon are "saajidiin" to him. All the items named are spherical - or at the least round - and suspended in space. It is physically impossible for a round thing in space to prostrate in any meaningful sense for at least two reasons firstly, it has no head, so the best it could manage is to roll around and, secondly, because in space there is no ground.It can submit or obey however.
4829 is interesting, it mentions "rukka3an sujjadan" Their distinction is in their faces, as a result of prostrating. - 4829
Most translators have translated it to say "on" their faces so most have taken that to mean a physical prostration. hail nopeGod knows best
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0 becomes invalid? If you mean for salat to mean a physical prayer, then I beg to differ.
where did i say that salat = ritual prayer or traditional prayer ?
regarding rest of the things what you ask i can only share my findings .. its your choice to select and put the understandings on test..
i read lot of articles from lot of people but i found the articles of brother wakas is very informative ,logical and best describe all these things with cross reference..
i myself read multiple times to understand it , so dnt rush and have a look in to it.. inshAllah it will help learning all of things what u ask ..
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-SaBiH-from-Quran.html
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/slw.htm
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/problems-5-salat-Quran.html
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-of-SuJuD-from-Quran.htmltry to read it many times for better understanding..
peace and God bless you
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My bad, must have took it the wrong way. http//www.pic4ever.com/images/4fvgdaq_th.gif You specified the 2 times for salat but didn't meantion what you meant by them.
I agree with Wakas on it being a Qur'an session to reflect upon for those 2 minimum salat times.
Thanks for the links, this will help me and others. http//www.pic4ever.com/images/47b20s0.gif
Peace be upon you
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It is very good to be here! Just one more remark about this missing prayer ritual.
Because prostration is sometimes not meant literally in the Quran it doesn't necessarily mean it is always meant this way. So I think it's a good thing to do it.
But if there were clearly a description of motions and what exactly to say, that would make all prayers of people in the world, who don't know this instructions in the Quran, to God alone invalid. -
But if there were clearly a description of motions and what exactly to say, that would make all prayers of people in the world, who don't know this instructions in the Quran, to God alone invalid.
That's the problem, there isn't a description in the Qur'an for a ritual prostration. http//www.pic4ever.com/images/consoling2.gif
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Peace Faith.
Please describe what kind of "prostration" is the followingIt has all the hallmark of a ritual prostration,like that made to a king...etc?
GOD bless you.
Peace -
My bad, must have took it the wrong way. http//www.pic4ever.com/images/4fvgdaq_th.gif You specified the 2 times for salat but didn't meantion what you meant by them.
I agree with Wakas on it being a Qur'an session to reflect upon for those 2 minimum salat times.
Thanks for the links, this will help me and others. http//www.pic4ever.com/images/47b20s0.gif
Peace be upon you
peace brother ,
thanks for understanding , we are here like family so our purpose here to share the information and talk about it .. (its a kind of sala too )
God bless you
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Peace Faith.
Please describe what kind of "prostration" is the followingIt has all the hallmark of a ritual prostration,like that made to a king...etc?
GOD bless you.
PeacePeace, apologies for the late reply.
Verse 12100 where the dream is fulfilled. The verb means to fall down. (Kharra)'s root = to fall or fall down. They're used in all these verses 7143, 12100, 1626, 17107, 17109, 1958, 1990, 2231, 2573, 3215, 3414, 3824. It is used of Moses falling down unconscious (7143) and Solomon falling down dead (3414). Perhaps "collapse" is a good way of summarising the action in such contexts.
The core features of the verse in question are these
• Joseph raised his two parents (the object is in the dual) upon the throne
• They (plural) fell down (i.e. collapsed)
• Joseph converses with his father
Aged parents raised on thrones are not given to falling prostrate. That which falls is in the masculine plural and indicates the brothers, who had every reason to seek Joseph's forgiveness and good graces. And it is while they are so placed that Joseph turns to his father and speaks to him.
If "sajada" indicates to "submit" (to the will of another) there is no conflict since Jacob has complied with his son's wishes he has come to the land from which his son called him and is placed where his son put him.
God bless you and peace.
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I didn't intend to make a prayer-thread here but I have some suggestions
Verse 12100 says
wakharroo lahu sujjadan = they fell down to him prostrating
even if here "sujjadan" were just meant as "submit to the will of another", there is still a real physical act with the intention to submit. Interestingly in my english translation the parents are not raised upon the throne. And it says "they all" (so perhaps also his brothers) fell on their knees.12100 He helped his parents to a couch, and they all fell on their knees and prostrated themselves before him.
then Verse 1958
kharroo sujjadan = they fell prostratingFor when the revelations of the Merciful were recited to them they fell down on their knees in tears and adoration.
and 3215 (Surah As-Sajda!)
kharroo sujjadan = fall down prostratingNone believes in Our revelations save those who, when reminded of them, prostrate themselves in adoration and give glory to their Lord in all humility; who forsake their beds to pray to their Lord in fear and hope; who give in alms from what We gave them. No mortal knows what bliss will be in store for these as a reward for their labours.
They leave their bed to pray. So that is surely a physical prayer. But not a ritual in that sense that every detail is exactly fixed.
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I didn't intend to make a prayer-thread here but I have some suggestions
Verse 12100 says
wakharroo lahu sujjadan = they fell down to him prostrating
even if here "sujjadan" were just meant as "submit to the will of another", there is still a real physical act with the intention to submit. Interestingly in my english translation the parents are not raised upon the throne. And it says "they all" (so perhaps also his brothers) fell on their knees.12100 He helped his parents to a couch, and they all fell on their knees and prostrated themselves before him.
then Verse 1958
kharroo sujjadan = they fell prostratingFor when the revelations of the Merciful were recited to them they fell down on their knees in tears and adoration.
and 3215 (Surah As-Sajda!)
kharroo sujjadan = fall down prostratingNone believes in Our revelations save those who, when reminded of them, prostrate themselves in adoration and give glory to their Lord in all humility; who forsake their beds to pray to their Lord in fear and hope; who give in alms from what We gave them. No mortal knows what bliss will be in store for these as a reward for their labours.
They leave their bed to pray. So that is surely a physical prayer. But not a ritual in that sense that every detail is exactly fixed.
The root word Ra-Fa-Ayn (the 1st word of 12100) defines to = to raise/uplift/elevate etc.
The root word Ra-Fa-Dal defines to = help/aid, give, to make a present etc.I see you're using R J Dawood's translation, for some reason it has brackets "(draft)" next to his name, when I looked it up on islamawakened website quran corpus.
Also, he's the only one using the word "help" on islamawakaned quran corpus.Free-minds Quran translation for 3216 goes as follow
Their sides readily forsake their beds, to call on their Lord out of fear and hope, and from Our provisions to them they give.The root word Dal-Ayn-Waw defines to = to seek, desire, ask, demand, call upon, invoke, ascribe, cry out, call out to, pray, supplicate.
It just depends on what you mean by physical. Getting out of bed is being physical in a sense that you're moving yourself out of bed.
Root word definitions help with understanding.I recommend Free-minds translation. It was refreshing to see the "surahs/chapters" not being named. In the original Quran copy there wouldn't be names of each chapter/surah and their translation, they were man made to help the reader.
God knows best,
God bless you, and peace.