any good articles saying women can lead prayers/pray with men?
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What is all this talk about sunnism and what bothrs whom?
I thought we ar talking about whether it is a God given rule that women do never lead preayers, whatever by lead is understood, or whether it is again some human invention. No matter how happy anybody says sunni women are staying behind all the men, tht is a human disposition not a divine one. That is what is being discussed, and we are not sunnis here but muslims.
I am comparing women beating and slavedom with rituals. No, man you are doing it. What I am comparing is one humilliation with another humiliation. Sure when slavery is a rule thereslaves who do not feelhumiliatd for being slaves,no women for being beaten when it is accepted tht women like it and it is a show of love for them. Even if those who endure do not feel it as a humiliation it is a humiliation. You cnnot do this, you cannot do that you must do this you must do that, why you ar a woman. Let us do it to you or to men in general. ?Oh it feels so good!
So whenever nobody comolains about something you shut up those who do complain. Very intelligent. And I do not believe you that everyody is happy. You reallysuppose so or they do not give a damn about what they do just as I hav known so many eoe who are in mass and do nto give a damns and therefore for them it is the same to be following therituals clesely or to be lost at the back of the crowd being able to think about heir business and even talk. They want to change anything? They do not give a damn. Is that sunnism?
And of course there are sunnis who want to change that. You may not know them but there are. And when people leave religion like catholicism do you think it is for no reason? So are many sunnis an sunni women who do so because those things that you say they do not complain about. No they don't it is just to tyring to make changes it is easier and less problematic to just leave. I know many of those ex sunni women, they hate islam. Because of things like that. Why should anybody stay where she is humilliated? Kee your privileges and get lost, I do not want any of that, that is what they do.
And in order to improve things you keep tell them they are happy lke that and nothing should be changed.
Thank God there is Qur'an otherwise I think the muslim world would go the way of the West forget God, forget religion. And I wouln't blame them.
Salaam
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But how is a women leading "changing the rituals"...?
If I am not wrong you are talking about the sunni prayer. After the sahada this is the most important thing in sunnism.
Touching it in any way, is really a bad idea, no matter who you are.
There are rules for this prayer, exact rules and some variable rules. Women praying behind males is not something you can change.
Same for the sahada, you can not go to a mosque and say the sahada without Mohammed in it and expect they will be ok with that.
That's not how things go there. And I believe you and me have to respect that. For them their system and for you your system.What are rituals?
The way something has to be done according to some formula.
Rituals also say stone adulterers and apostates.
No that is not a ritual. The way they stone is a ritual, but not the stoning it self, the stoning is a law.
Rituals also say have sex with captives. None of these are in the Quran.
No that is also not a ritual.
RED They have hadiths besides the quran.Please I just thought this was common thought among free minders I don't wanna argue or upset anyone.
But you are not living with freeminders over there.
Our opinions how the prayer should be done or what is fair or what not will not work for you there.What do you want us to advice you? Just rebel against them?
But it's just so hard to try to have a voice when people tell you you're "weaker in faith" and give example of not leading prayer a supplement to promote the idea.
Do you know Yusuf Qardawi? He is a prominent sunni scholar, a male. He himself gives fatwa's for a lot of things. He once said something about Khadija (wife of Mohammed according to hadiths).
I don't remember exactly what he said, but he got scolded and was declared a disbeliever by another prominent scholar.Don't take everything personal even the their biggest scholars are not safe for being declared "weaker in faith".
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Peace Baitachal.
I believe Bender has given you some good advice in the last post.
It is frustrating for you to live among that "traditional belief". But it is widely spread among your brothers and sisters there and they can easily become your worst enemy.
Now how can "you" change their "tradition and system"? I can suggest the following1- Learn as much as you can by studying Qoran and keep it to yourself unless you can trust your "true" friends.
2- Seek help directly from your creator. GOD is very much aware of your situation. Be patient.
3-You have already started to communicate with fellow believers,like here,keep communicating and discussing/asking . We will do our best to support/help where we can.
4-Keep concentrating on "cleansing" yourself for now from the "doctrines" of your people. This will improve your confidence to move to the next level of "belief" and so on...Hopefully you will find a way eventually.May the Lord grant you the patience and knowledge to reach your goal.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Wait, is Bender the joker actually taking a serious stance? o
Yes > People do not find me funny, so I quit being a joker. From now on only serious Bender >
And btw in the other thread, you heard how he (=Cerberus voodoo) said I was boring and all those ugly things to me '(
Why did you not help me '( ?
I thought we were friends >'(
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Peace Bender.
Join the club!!!The Joke When Bender goes back to Free minds forum, he runs into his old fraternity, Savage Carrot,good logic....
The Meaning Savage Carrot ,good logic... are abbreviated as SC,GL..., which is an abbreviation of "error," a reference to errors in trying to mix humour with being serious. And the fraternity SC,GL,...certainly had their share of errors.You are on your own now or perhaps sister Comrox will stay loyal to you?
If SC does not agree ,she probably has more sense of humour than I envisaged!
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Yeah naturally I'm not about to go confronting any sunnism if that's what you mean! Haha I'll like to have my head on my neck please.
I was just asking for what I should believe as a God alone individual.
I have come to this conclusion
It's okay for a woman to lead prayer, but it shouldn't incite anyone. Naturally you don't want a row of men staring at her a**. rotfl yay That's why it's ok if majority of the time a man leads.But to say that absolutely no a woman can nev'r ever ever lead prayer, or than even leading prayer with her little mehram brothers is haram is just a wrong and mean thing to say.
God and His Book Alone.
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What is all this talk about sunnism and what bothrs whom?
I thought we ar talking about whether it is a God given rule that women do never lead preayers, whatever by lead is understood, or whether it is again some human invention. No matter how happy anybody says sunni women are staying behind all the men, tht is a human disposition not a divine one. That is what is being discussed, and we are not sunnis here but muslims.
This is what you wrote
" I do not care myself to led any prayer but a do care that it should be always a man who does. Why. I get bored of male voices, I suppose as would get bored of female voices if I was given the opportunity. Like I get bored every time I see a photo of muslims praying, it is always men, never women. Yes it bothers me. Women exist and not exist in the moon but here, all over the place. I do not care whether it tickles the males to see the women. I am not a male and I don't see why half humanity sould b deprived of seeing women praying or doing whatever because it upsets men's comfort. "
If you mean here with bored something else then I am indeed missing the point.
And please tell me who are these muslims you are talking about here? What voices of males? In case of male voice in a prayer, then what prayer?
If you are not talking about sunnis (or any quran/hadith based sect) here then I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.btw maybe it's an idea to also respect males. If males do not want to see women pray in front of them in a sunni way then maybe you should also try respect their position.
I don't care or I don't give a damn, is not the way to go.I am comparing women beating and slavedom with rituals. No, man you are doing it. What I am comparing is one humilliation with another humiliation. Sure when slavery is a rule thereslaves who do not feelhumiliatd for being slaves,no women for being beaten when it is accepted tht women like it and it is a show of love for them. Even if those who endure do not feel it as a humiliation it is a humiliation. You cnnot do this, you cannot do that you must do this you must do that, why you ar a woman.
You brought them up into the discussion and then I assume that you see a link between women praying behind men and wife beating and slaves.
If you want to talk about the humiliations of women in general then ok, but I thought this was a topic about prayer.Let us do it to you or to men in general. ?Oh it feels so good!
Praying behind males is humiliation?
ok then opening the door for a woman is aso humiliation.So whenever nobody comolains about something you shut up those who do complain.
Complain about what? We are talking here for God sake about some position in prayer we are not talking about murder, slaughter, beating, sexual harassment.
Very intelligent. And I do not believe you that everyody is happy.
Then believe whatever you like it to be.
But the fact remains that I do not know a single woman from where I come who is unhappy with this. -
Haha Bender knows 1.5 billion women rotfl rotfl. Maybe they call him Bender for a reason... ignore
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But the fact remains that I do not know a single woman from where I come who is unhappy with this.
Think what huruf means is that unless we start 'enforcing' for lack of a better word, some change in the mindset if it doesn't occur naturally...we'll always be at a stage where whatever is comfortable or done a certain way stays the norm. This is very true. For example generally, women in the workplace. It started to become a necessity at times due to war or what have you. Once the need was over, it was much more accepted than previously. It's probably similar with this issue. It starts becoming more of a non issue when it's being done commonly. Different people have different reasons for why they want to maintain the status quo. The worst out of those is the one to do with asses. I'm certainly not happy about that or standing behind anyone (latter is probably just my anti social tendencies).
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Haha Bender knows 1.5 billion women
No the village were I come from has at most 200 women, and I know most of them, most of them are direct family.
Bender, you can play hide and seek with me, but I won't play that with you nor with anybody else.
If you want a serious discussion you can always try.
Salaam
ok
Think what huruf means is that unless we start 'enforcing' for lack of a better word, some change in the mindset if it doesn't occur naturally...we'll always be at a stage where whatever is comfortable or done a certain way stays the norm. This is very true. For example generally, women in the workplace. It started to become a necessity at times due to war or what have you. Once the need was over, it was much more accepted than previously. It's probably similar with this issue. It starts becoming more of a non issue when it's being done commonly. Different people have different reasons for why they want to maintain the status quo. The worst out of those is the one to do with asses. I'm certainly not happy about that or standing behind anyone (latter is probably just my anti social tendencies).
It's all a joke, SC. He has a plan for everything and everyone.
The joke's on you
Yes I know I totally lost it yay rotfl brickwall giveup laugh -\ -* > eatbtw it has nothing to do with what you said and not directed at you it's pure frustration
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It's all a joke, SC. He has a plan for everything and everyone.
The joke's on you
Yes I know I totally lost it yay rotfl brickwall giveup laugh -\ -* >D eat
btw it has nothing to do with what you said and not directed at you it's pure frustrationhttp//68.media.tumblr.com/07b6a7f8051095ecd127833d35259eff/tumblr_inline_oo7o30rRe31szkhw7_400.gif
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Peace Baitachal.
I believe Bender has given you some good advice in the last post.
It is frustrating for you to live among that "traditional belief". But it is widely spread among your brothers and sisters there and they can easily become your worst enemy.
Now how can "you" change their "tradition and system"? I can suggest the following1- Learn as much as you can by studying Qoran and keep it to yourself unless you can trust your "true" friends.
2- Seek help directly from your creator. GOD is very much aware of your situation. Be patient.
3-You have already started to communicate with fellow believers,like here,keep communicating and discussing/asking . We will do our best to support/help where we can.
4-Keep concentrating on "cleansing" yourself for now from the "doctrines" of your people. This will improve your confidence to move to the next level of "belief" and so on...Hopefully you will find a way eventually.May the Lord grant you the patience and knowledge to reach your goal.
GOD bless you.
Peace.Thank you so much. Im so grateful. Please pray Allah gives me strength. Thank you. peace hail pr
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Has Baitachal said such a thing? I do not think so, but why should she not want that once in a milenium may or twice a day or whatever there would be a woman. Because the opposita can also be asked,
Why do you want to lead prayers in front of women
Why do you want tht it always be a man leading prayers. The species last time anybody checked has two sexes, (except for prayers?)
Salaam
and then we will go back to the "women can pray in bikinis" argument because womens rights