Did Solomon forget remembrance of God and so was punished before he repented?

EdQ

Salam,

I have just finished this Chapter 38 in the Quran - not by doing the root word analysis myself (I am still learning Arabic), but by looking at several different translations on this site http//islamawakened.com/quran/38
Below I have used the translation by Shabbir Ahmed - only because it fits with my understanding of the meaning of the Arabic words and the context. There are two Quranist translations on this site as well but appear a bit outdated.

I have been trying to understand specifically the following verses - which relate to Solomon forgetting the remembrance of his Lord because he had been preoccupied with horses. It seems when he realized what had happened (ie after the dark of night) after the period for Isha Salat, he called for his horses - and either stroked them - or slashed them....

If Solomon slashed the horses, would this make sense - not in terms of the root word analysis - but in terms of the last verse below - ie did he lose his way and become an empty body on a throne full of love of the lower life? Is this why he lost his way and slashed the horses?

The view I currently favour is If Solomon stroked the horses even after realizing that he had lost his way and missed remembrance of this Lord, did he call back for the horses to stroke them - and thereby acknowledge that he had lost his way and so had become an empty body who had lost touch with his soul?

3831

Ith AAurida AAalayhi bialAAashiyyi alssafinatu aljiyadu
In the evenings he used to examine his cavalry of nobly-bred, swift-footed horses.

3832

Faqala innee ahbabtu hubba alkhayri AAan thikri rabbee hatta tawarat bialhijabi
He would say, "Verily, I love my fondness of all that is good because it reminds me of my Lord", as the horses raced away until hidden by the veil of distance.

3833

Ruddooha AAalayya fatafiqa mashan bialssooqi waal-aAAnaqi
"Bring them back unto me!" - and would lovingly stroke their legs and their necks.

3834

Walaqad fatanna sulaymana waalqayna AAala kursiyyihi jasadan thumma anaba
We indeed tried him, and set upon his throne a mere body, and thereupon he turned to Us

Any views on this - especially in the context of 3834? Did Solomon forget his remembrance and thus was punished until he repented?

The process of finding God through a disconnection with the soul and loving the lower life of this world is something that resonates with me - ie of falling and finding salvation through mercy by God.

Thanks
Ed

HP_TECH

Ahh I see, you make use of islamawakened.com as well. Excellent but let me advise you to use the literal word by word translation so you can analyze each word, and then examine yourself whether it is best translated as such. With a mere translation as you have it, you are prone to misunderstand continuously for whole verses and sentences are reconstructed and reworded to suit the writer's interpretative style.

Surah 38
31
Ith AAurida AAalayhi bialAAashiyyi alssafinatu aljiyadu

When were displayed to him in the afternoon excellent bred steeds.

32
Faqala innee ahbabtu hubba alkhayri AAan thikri rabbee hatta tawarat bialhijabi

And he said, "Indeed, I preferred (the) love (of) the good over (the) remembrance (of) my Lord." Until they were hidden in the veil;

33
Ruddooha AAalayya fatafiqa mashan bialssooqi waal-aAAnaqi

"Return them to me." Then he began (to) pass (his hand) over the legs and the necks.

34
Walaqad fatanna sulaymana waalqayna AAala kursiyyihi jasadan thumma anaba

And certainly We tried Sulaiman, and We placed on his throne a body; then he turned.

Also use tools such as corpusquran.com 's word for word feature for root concordance and etc.

EdQ

Indeed I am discovering all the tools I need. This is the discovery phase!

What is your view on the question in my post?

ie does it appear that Solomon erred - and did this affect the way he treated the horses - and was this an affirmation that he erred - and is this a reason that an empty corpse was placed on the throne?

Ed

EdQ

Salam All,

What I am wondering is if Solomon "fell" from grace and was punished by being emptied of his soul or by being punished?

So it is the context of the verses that is of more importance to me.

Thanks
Ed

HP_TECH

Bismillah AlRahman AlRaheem

May The God prevent me from saying anything about Him which I do not know.

I do not know for certain so I will God willing present the possibilities I perceive.

Let us analyze this passage into its respective ayaatin

Aya 31
Sulaiman was presented excellent bred steeds bialAAashiyyi (in the EVENING)

Aya 32
Sulaiman THEN SAYS(Faqala) "Innee ahbabtu hubba alkhayri AAan dhikri rabbee" hatta tawarat bialhijabi"
Which can be interpreted as "Indeed, I preferred (the) love (of) the good over (the) remembrance (of) my Lord." Until she was hidden/she has hidden herself in the veil;

Aya 33
We assume Sulaiman says "Ruddooha AAalayya".....fatafiqa mashan bialssooqi waal-aAAnaqi
"Return them to me." Then he began (to) pass (his hand) over the legs and the necks.

Aya 34
Allah tries Sulaiman by placing on his throne a jasadan, after which Sulaiman turns

Aya 35
After having turned (anaba), Sulaiman says "rabbi ighfir lee wahab lee mulkan la yanbaghee li-ahadin min baAAdee innaka anta alwahhabu"
"O my Lord! Forgive me and grant me a kingdom, not (will) belong to anyone after me. Indeed, You (are) the Bestower."

Let us then begin with the 31st Aya of the 38th Surah
I dont believe there is any room for dispute concerning the understanding here, I hold strongly that the above interpretation is quite straightforward. I would however stress the importance of this event occurring in the evening, therefore the sun is going down, visibility is diminishing, it is that twilight hour and guess what time that is? Yes, prayer time.

Aya 32
Point A Sulaiman is regretting that he has taken pleasure in the love of the good things/wealth over the remembrance of his Lord until either the sun is completely below the horizon or completely hidden by the cloak of darkness

Point B Sulaiman was proudly stating that he takes pleasure in wealth over the dhikr

Point C Sulaiman is stating that he takes pleasure in/prefers the love of the good(in this case the horses) to remember his Lord

I dismiss any proponents of Point C for a couple of reasons.

We know that the love of the good/khayri is portrayed as a negative thing 314

Beautified for mankind (is) love (of) the (things they) desire - of women and sons and heaps stored up of gold and silver, and horses branded, and cattle and tilled land. That (is) provision (of) life (of) the world but Allah - with Him (is an) excellent abode to return.

If it is okay for Sulaiman to utilize the horses for remembrance, then why were the Children of Israel punished for the golden calf?

It is hard to imagine the wise King Ruler, devout Muslim, oft-repenting Servant and Nabiyu unable to see the error in loving the love of the good/wealth enough to be admiring horses in the evening when salat should be established.

Possibilities.

Did Sulaiman
1)admire the horses until the sun hid below the horizon?
2)reflect about his error until the sun set?
3)observe the dhikr until the sun set below the horizon?

Aya 33

Sulaiman has the horses brought to him, returned to him. Then he wipes over their legs and necks.

1)This in my understanding means that the horses were sent away priorly.

Then again it is only an individual?s perspective but there is much soundness indeed in this perspective.

2)If the horses were sent away and then returned to him, then what was occupying his time in between?

3)Was it also possible that he had remained admiring the horses that were being exhibited to him and asked to bring them closer for a closer inspection?

4)And following, is it then possible that Sulaiman, King Ruler who could speak to birds, communicate with and command jinns, hear the speech of ants, direct the winds, all by the Permission and Grace of The God, wanted the horses closer to communicate with them and express his affection for them?

5)Following once more from here, is it possible again by a bit of a stretch that Sulaiman was enjoying himself in his wealth and enjoying the regal moment of excellent gifts he possesses and then seeing that it was evening time and he was amidst admiring his own wealth, it was right then that he realized that he almost allowed the transaction

do not let entertainment

1)Is evening time a good time to be exhibited horses?
2)When the sun is going down?,
3)visibility diminishes?,
4)darkness ensues?
4)the twilight (?Golden?) hour?
5)Is that not time for Salat?
6)Or is it time to be admiring horses?
7)Was the King Ruler purchasing these horses, was this a transaction or perhaps a sport as in mere entertainment/amusement?

Upon the latter I would remind two ayaahs

2436-37

In houses (which) Allah ordered that they be raised and be mentioned in them His name. Glorify Him in them in the mornings and (in) the evenings.
Men - not distracts them trade and not sale from (the) remembrance of Allah and (from) establishing the prayer and giving zakah. They fear a Day will turn about therein the hearts and the eyes.

629-11

O you who believe! When (the) call is made for (the) prayer on (the) day (of) Assembly, then hasten to (the) remembrance (of) Allah and leave the business. That (is) better for you, if you know.
Then when is concluded the prayer, then disperse in the land and seek from (the) Bounty of Allah, and remember Allah much so that you may succeed.
And when they saw a transaction or a sport, they rushed to it and left you standing. Say, "What (is) with Allah (is) better than the sport and from (any) transaction. And Allah (is the) Best (of) the Providers."

What is with Allah is indeed better than the sport and from any transaction, therefore perhaps Sulaiman remembered this in this moment.

What ensues next is either that the horses were sent away and returned to him later, so he could spend the remainder of the yawm (time) of prayer to hasten to the remembrance of Allah, glorify Him, and establish the prayer or that he asked to have a closer inspection at the horses he was admiring.

From his words and his commanding the horses brought back to him, I believe it is quite clear that he had a revelational realization of his wrongdoing and felt remorseful, so he had the horses sent away so he could observe the dhikr then when he concluded he had them returned to him and remained in a spirit of gratitude by petting his steeds.

The speculations can be numerous, but in the end we should follow the best interpretation/of what is in the Word. Look into the best of the meanings, deductions and conclusions which are attainable to those who truly seek His Help and purify themselves.

In Aya 34 it then seems that Allah tried Sulaiman. Allah alqay/cast down(lam oaf ya) a jasadan/body/image on his throne.

Again the speculations can be many

1)was this a lifeless body?

2)was it an image of a dead body as an apparition or a real dead body?

3)Was this a lifeless form or statue?

4)Could it be some kind of Sign concerning his dominion ?

5)Then Sulaiman recognized the error for which he was tried

6)Sulaiman seeks God?s promised Forgiveness and ?Bounty for a term? for those who turn.

By truly studying the words it is possible to see that Allah cast or threw perhaps figuratively or literally a body on Sulaiman?s throne It cannot be dominion as the primary most coherent meaning for jasadan is body and for a body being thrown or cast on someone?s dominion would require a great deal of imaginative extrapolation to be merely considered plausible.

Beyond this we cannot speculate, the reason for which a body, whatever it may had been, was cast/thrown/ on his throne/seat nor what the connection is between the sign of the jasadan on his throne and his plead for an unprecedented and unreachable kingdom/rule/dominion.

Just as we cannot wildly speculate about the reason for which David was tried in the manner he did, did he abuse his power as Vicegerent Ruler and appropriate properties of neighboring allied nations?
We cannot possibly know what was committed and it should not matter.

None of these possibilities change or alter anything from the Mother of The Book. The foundations of The Book are constant.

EdQ

Thank you for your analysis. I think we agree on many aspects of this verse.

There is only one aspect I can clarify.

When reading the Quran, I feel it is important to understand the meaning of the context.

By this, I don't want to understand if there were 3 or 5 or 7 or more people in the Cave (for example), but I want to understand why they were in the cave. I think the Quran refers to this as internal and external meanings.

Thus, in the case of the verses above, I would like to understand if Solomon lost his way - more than just forgetting Salat or Dhikr at dusk.
This is in relation to the verse that tells us that his throne had an empty body put on it.

When I try and understand if Solomon lost his way, it makes me think of examples of people around me who begin to love the excesses of joy that come with the reality of this lower life and forget about spirituality and the hereafter.

Salam
Ed