Is this inheritance article correct?
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https//free-minds.org/inheritance-and-testament
The article says that in every situation (even if a person makes a bequest) the ratio of the boy getting double of the girl exists.
I don't think that's correct, only in a few situations mostly the daughter son situations is the male getting double of the female. Sister-brother, mother-father get same in some situations, so to downright say "male gets double" is incorrect.
Personally I do not approve of the above mentioned situation at all either, and think it's unfair and should remain in the 7th century, however we have been told we can make a will, where we can distribute our wealth fairly and equally amongs males and females. However the article above states that even within the will the 21 male to female ration works. That's pretty absurd, the whole point of the will is to distribute it according to your own will.
Aaaah Im just sick of this topic now tempt Too many conflicting contradictions , misogynistic and unfair (well to today's standards maybe not in the 7th century hence we're allowed to make a will you dumb sectarians!)
I'm surprised to read this article on free mind's though, I thought only sectarians believed in the fixed 21 ratio.
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Well, all of us are trying our best to get out of the preconceived notions we had to accept in our sunni and shia religions.
Have patience. Don't accept what seems to be unlikely for God to promote no matter what the majority might tell you. I reject the interpretation of the inheritance verses because of the anomalies found within them. -
Well, all of us are trying our best to get out of the preconceived notions we had to accept in our sunni and shia religions.
Have patience. Don't accept what seems to be unlikely for God to promote no matter what the majority might tell you. I reject the interpretation of the inheritance verses because of the anomalies found within them.Reel!!!! yay yay
I wish I could be as strong as you sis ).
Sigh maybe I have OCD/anxiety or something, for despite my confusions being cleared I always feel worry once again.
Yeah I'll reject the interpretation too
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https//free-minds.org/inheritance-and-testament
I'm surprised to read this article on free mind's though, I thought only sectarians believed in the fixed 21 ratio.
Peace, the article has many errors and contradictions in distribution due to omission and insertion of words.
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"As regards your children's (inheritance), to each boy a share equal to that of two girls, i.e. one girl = 1/3 and one boy = 2/3
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If the girls are two or more than two, the portion of all of them together shall be 2/3; if it is one girl, the portion shall be half.
411 instructed you the god in offspring yours
to the male (i.e. gender) similitude apportion the two (f)Applicable if two daughters as stated!
1/2 two daughters (1/4 each); 1/2 son/s411 ... so if are (f/p) womenfolk fawqa/above two (f)
so for them (f/p) third dual (1/3 * 2 = 2/3) what leftApplicable if above two i.e. 3+ daughters never two!
2/3 three daughters (2/9 each); 1/3 son/s
2/3 four daughters (1/6 each); 1/3 son/s411 ... and if be she one (f) so for her the half
Applicable if exactly one daughter and any number of sons.
1/2 daughter; 1/2 son/s
Inheritance summary
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604035.msg395789#msg395789 -
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Peace, the article has many errors and contradictions in distribution due to omission and insertion of words.
411 instructed you the god in offspring yours
to the male (i.e. gender) similitude apportion the two (f)Applicable if two daughters as stated!
1/2 two daughters (1/4 each); 1/2 son/s411 ... so if are (f/p) womenfolk fawqa/above two (f)
so for them (f/p) third dual (1/3 * 2 = 2/3) what leftApplicable if above two i.e. 3+ daughters never two!
2/3 three daughters (2/9 each); 1/3 son/s
2/3 four daughters (1/6 each); 1/3 son/s411 ... and if be she one (f) so for her the half
Applicable if exactly one daughter and any number of sons.
1/2 daughter; 1/2 son/s
Inheritance summary
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604035.msg395789#msg395789a bit worrying though, the second scenario. So if there are 10 daughters and 1 son, will they have to share 2/3rds among themselves (each will get barely a sliver) while the son in comparison gets a whole 1/3? Extremely disproportionate.
haha i dont wanna think of these inheritance laws now, to be honest they just make me doubt if the quran is really a divine and eternal book. im just gonna tell myself just keep a will as Allah commanded and dont let it worry you & nope yeah yay ignore
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Mr. noon and Reel, this is just what i think as a fellow free minder but
no matter how amount of mental gymnastics I do, the inheritance laws just do not make sense and are not fair (esp to women). Since according to 2106, a verse abrogated is always replaced by another verse, cant we just assume this strange inheritance verse is replaced by the verses to keep a will? And Allah just kept the verse for us to ponder on, yet dumb secularists think this is fixed.
Reel also mentioned some verses about not giving wealth to anyone who doesn't have a sound mind, so how does it make sense for a wise and merciful god to tell us these are fixed rules?
honestly this is the only explanation that makes sense to me. stupid secularists have taken it the opposite thinking the inheritance laws abrogates the will law but that makes 0 sense. it just suits their male agendas so they assume that.
IT MAKES ME SO MAD!! brickwall brickwall brickwall
ah calm down, only Allah knows the truth. personally i think all Allah cares about is justice, so the people who think the world will topple over if a girl gets as much as a guy are just stupid.
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Again, there is no hint that males inherits double the females, that is nonsense.
In 4.11 it says God instructs you as to your children to the male, like the part of the two females,
That does not mean double what each female gets but the a part which is like the of each of the females.
and if there are more than two women then two thirds for the females (and one third for the males), whatever their number and if there is one female for her half (and the other half for the males).And what you say about the 7th century. This distribution, two females one male equal each of the three had been practiced right up to the coming of the Abasids, so nothing wrong with seventh century, but with later people, who made it comfortably for the female half of the male, like with the two females witnesses equal one male.
If you, for instance, Baitachal, extend a check, and your sister extends a check for the samea mount and you ask your father to extend a check for the same amount as you two have extended a check, which amount is it? The sum of the two ckecks or the same amount that is on each check?
It is the same amount that is on each check, right? it is the same as each, not double.
God could have written unmistakably the part of the male double the part of the female,he did not write that and nobody can understand that except if one is determined to understnd that no matter what. It would have been so simple to put it like that the male double or the female half, but no, that is not what is written, but something that were it not because we have been brainwashed for many centuries, would be plain.
As you see, from the begining the inheritance is distributed depending on the number of females. The female part is fixed and then what is left is for the males.
Let us be consequent If God chooses to picke the females as the primary function to assign inheritance does it look logic to you that it would be to trod them down? Or rather to ensure them in the first place as the most necessary?
You say that you do not agree with has has been done inthe seventh century, and want to change that, but it is not you who has to change anything but undo the change practiced after the seventh century.
I explained this to you earlier but contrary to Qur'an which tells us to put on what you read in it the best meaning, yout take the worse meaning of what others read. Then do not blame anybody but yourself when if put in front of several possibilities you pick the worst.
That is what many people do, and that is what gets us where we are, making always excuses for ourselves, our our beliefs, because at the bottom of ourselves we rather believe people than God, and fear that finally women indeed are secondary and those who treat them as such are right and we are just dreaming. or like some say are cheated by feminism.
Don't blame the Qur'an or God, God is clear
As per 4.1
O mankind! reverence your Guardian-Lord, who created you from a single person, created, of like nature, His mate, and from them twain scattered countless men and women;- reverence Allah, about whom you ask, and reverence the wombs for Allah ever watches over you.
So we are ordered to reverence God, as we are ordered to reverence the wombs. What does that mean? Nothing? or it does mean something? Does it mean that males double the females?
You like everybody else, will believe whtever you want, bu do not blame anybody else for what you believe.
If women get put down, the whole sepcies is put down and human life will be shit. Because if those empowered and in charge of bringing new beings into the world are shit, nothing can ever be born who will not be shit, and therefore human life and dignity are tramled everywhere and so the world carries on and then ask ourselves how come. That is what we learn and that is what we teach. Because when our hearts and the Qur'an say something that upsets the cart we choose the easy way of denying the Qur'an and our hearts and listening the scholars, and an y person we choose to believe against our heart we are making them scholars. Our scholars, because we made them.
So let us keep laying with words and finding word excuses for every iniquity and nonsense we hapen to find in the Qur'an after weare taught how to find it. If one is determined one will always find them.
I guess Arabic is not you mother tongue and that you do not know much about it, Because if it is not so, you really are getting into trouble for nothing, you have everything in your lap.
Salaam
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Again, there is no hint that males inherits double the females, that is nonsense.
In 4.11 it says God instructs you as to your children to the male, like the part of the two females,
That does not mean double what each female gets but the a part which is like the of each of the females.
and if there are more than two women then two thirds for the females (and one third for the males), whatever their number and if there is one female for her half (and the other half for the males).And what you say about the 7th century. This distribution, two females one male equal each of the three had been practiced right up to the coming of the Abasids, so nothing wrong with seventh century, but with later people, who made it comfortably for the female half of the male, like with the two females witnesses equal one male.
If you, for instance, Baitachal, extend a check, and your sister extends a check for the samea mount and you ask your father to extend a check for the same amount as you two have extended a check, which amount is it? The sum of the two ckecks or the same amount that is on each check?
It is the same amount that is on each check, right? it is the same as each, not double.
God could have written unmistakably the part of the male double the part of the female,he did not write that and nobody can understand that except if one is determined to understnd that no matter what. It would have been so simple to put it like that the male double or the female half, but no, that is not what is written, but something that were it not because we have been brainwashed for many centuries, would be plain.
As you see, from the begining the inheritance is distributed depending on the number of females. The female part is fixed and then what is left is for the males.
Let us be consequent If God chooses to picke the females as the primary function to assign inheritance does it look logic to you that it would be to trod them down? Or rather to ensure them in the first place as the most necessary?
You say that you do not agree with has has been done inthe seventh century, and want to change that, but it is not you who has to change anything but undo the change practiced after the seventh century.
I explained this to you earlier but contrary to Qur'an which tells us to put on what you read in it the best meaning, yout take the worse meaning of what others read. Then do not blame anybody but yourself when if put in front of several possibilities you pick the worst.
That is what many people do, and that is what gets us where we are, making always excuses for ourselves, our our beliefs, because at the bottom of ourselves we rather believe people than God, and fear that finally women indeed are secondary and those who treat them as such are right and we are just dreaming. or like some say are cheated by feminism.
Don't blame the Qur'an or God, God is clear
As per 4.1
O mankind! reverence your Guardian-Lord, who created you from a single person, created, of like nature, His mate, and from them twain scattered countless men and women;- reverence Allah, about whom you ask, and reverence the wombs for Allah ever watches over you.
So we are ordered to reverence God, as we are ordered to reverence the wombs. What does that mean? Nothing? or it does mean something? Does it mean that males double the females?
You like everybody else, will believe whtever you want, bu do not blame anybody else for what you believe.
If women get put down, the whole sepcies is put down and human life will be shit. Because if those empowered and in charge of bringing new beings into the world are shit, nothing can ever be born who will not be shit, and therefore human life and dignity are tramled everywhere and so the world carries on and then ask ourselves how come. That is what we learn and that is what we teach. Because when our hearts and the Qur'an say something that upsets the cart we choose the easy way of denying the Qur'an and our hearts and listening the scholars, and an y person we choose to believe against our heart we are making them scholars. Our scholars, because we made them.
So let us keep laying with words and finding word excuses for every iniquity and nonsense we hapen to find in the Qur'an after weare taught how to find it. If one is determined one will always find them.
I guess Arabic is not you mother tongue and that you do not know much about it, Because if it is not so, you really are getting into trouble for nothing, you have everything in your lap.
Salaam
sorry i mean no bad meaning huruf! peace peace
i was just quoting what the article said , nothing more. It exactly why I brought it up , because i remmeber what you siad about it being a misconception.
Sorry i didnt mean to voodoosigh i just have lots of anxiety and making lots of posts is how i deal with it nope &
dont worry im thinking if getting some help soon
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Don't worry Baitachal. We all have come here with expectations of seeing many of our doubts or rather anxieties resolved. I may seem too forceful, but really I am not keen on having people think this way or the other. I am too old to think that one can change anybody else's mind.
I just try to make think things thoroughly, and life usually is sufficiently long to have time for people to rippen their ideas with time.
No worries. I know and understnd how you feel. Whatever is said, I know that mostly it is women (not always) who understand how we feel and how hurting is the feeling of humiliation, which in fact many times it has been shaded into guilt, so that we really do not dare because we feel that may be we are guilty of trying to see what we want to see. But the inner outrage at injustice crys too clearly to ignore.
That does not mean morally that we are worse off than men. Morally they are more misled than us, they are pushed into a comfort zone where they do not see wrong or important wrong and come close to feel tht they indeed can have the cake and eat it. And that is not so. The whole society is pushed down into a trap.
Anyway, best wishes, don't worry and thank you for your explanations.
Salaam
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Reel!!!! yay yay
I wish I could be as strong as you sis ).
Sigh maybe I have OCD/anxiety or something, for despite my confusions being cleared I always feel worry once again.
Yeah I'll reject the interpretation too
Nayyy, I am just trained to deal with laws. No worries. If you go to study policy making you will see that not being able to understand certain laws of Quran is not unique at all.
Laws worldwide are always structured just like them. They'll make your head spin. They'll make you cry and tear your hair with their language.
It is very easy to make mistake in interpreting them and of course, that happens all the time. You can read about the legal language from https//www.law.du.edu/index.php/law-school-learning-aids/legal-language/?What I wonder is whether this structure has come from holybooks. Even Karaite Jews, Hindus and Christians struggle with that same thing. You will also find people questioning why Quran has foreign words. That is not unique either. I couldn't apply to certain jobs because of my inability to remember and pronounce the Latin and French words found in ours P
Again, there is no hint that males inherits double the females, that is nonsense.
In 4.11 it says God instructs you as to your children to the male, like the part of the two females,
As you see, from the begining the inheritance is distributed depending on the number of females. The female part is fixed and then what is left is for the males.
I apologize, but could you explain a little more about the law?
When I read the first part it sounded like they must get equal portions. But then the second line above got me confused. If wealth is distributed equally between the two females, then there will be nothing left for the son.
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May be I expressed it incorrectly, as a function of females it means that what is assigned to those who are not females depends on what is ssigned to the females. The fact that it says to the male like the part of the two females, it means that his part is equal to the part of the two females. Had it said that the part of the females is like the part of the male it would have meant tht the part of the women is s a function of the males. In this cse since all three get the same, it does nto show so much but when it says that if there re more than two women then it is clear that the amounts as attributed as a function of the number of females, not the other way around.
Salaam
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Don't worry Baitachal. We all have come here with expectations of seeing many of our doubts or rather anxieties resolved. I may seem too forceful, but really I am not keen on having people think this way or the other. I am too old to think that one can change anybody else's mind.
I just try to make think things thoroughly, and life usually is sufficiently long to have time for people to rippen their ideas with time.
No worries. I know and understnd how you feel. Whatever is said, I know that mostly it is women (not always) who understand how we feel and how hurting is the feeling of humiliation, which in fact many times it has been shaded into guilt, so that we really do not dare because we feel that may be we are guilty of trying to see what we want to see. But the inner outrage at injustice crys too clearly to ignore.
That does not mean morally that we are worse off than men. Morally they are more misled than us, they are pushed into a comfort zone where they do not see wrong or important wrong and come close to feel tht they indeed can have the cake and eat it. And that is not so. The whole society is pushed down into a trap.
Anyway, best wishes, don't worry and thank you for your explanations.
Salaam
OLD? no way huruf is as young as ever!!!; sun sun sun
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OLD? no way huruf is as young as ever!!!; sun sun sun
laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh
Actually I am proud of myself to have gotten so far.
But glad to read you so enthusiastic. Keep it up and may you get old with so much entusiasm and far less worry.
Best to you.Salaam
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I remember the dilemma some years ago when I wanted to make a will due to being a hypochondriac.
I remember trying to navigate "Islamic Wills" and cut-throat "Islamic" lawyers.....
They even suggested that if I wanted to siphon off money - as a loan or gift - it would be excluded from the will. With such Islamically legal loopholes I decided the intention was better than the focus on using a will from an "Islamic" lawyer (is there such a thing???).In the end I went with a normal state will (secular will) with the correct intentions.
Ed
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I remember the dilemma some years ago when I wanted to make a will due to being a hypochondriac.
I remember trying to navigate "Islamic Wills" and cut-throat "Islamic" lawyers.....
They even suggested that if I wanted to siphon off money - as a loan or gift - it would be excluded from the will. With such Islamically legal loopholes I decided the intention was better than the focus on using a will from an "Islamic" lawyer (is there such a thing???).In the end I went with a normal state will (secular will) with the correct intentions.
Ed
Exactly, which is why we should keep this sectarian myth of "shariah" law faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar away from secular governments. elektro elektro
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laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh
Actually I am proud of myself to have gotten so far.
But glad to read you so enthusiastic. Keep it up and may you get old with so much entusiasm and far less worry.
Best to you.Salaam
You should be, you are bursting with knowledge, so even if you say you're 1000 years old you still sound like a young, energetic lady to me. I hope Allah gives me the wisdom and patience you have yay yay i have so many more years to go '( '( '( i just hope allah keeps secularists far away from my path and blesses me to meet free minded people like you pr and ofcourse Reel rotfl rotfl
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Exactly, which is why we should keep this sectarian myth of "shariah" law faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar away from secular governments. elektro elektro
The so called "Muslim" governments who think they are following the guidelines or laws of God are corrupt and led by self-interested men who have their own interests in mind.
However, secular laws are not different. I don't think that it is a fair "international" law that leads men in secular western countries to invade other nations for their own interests (and thereby murdering millions and stealing all resources & radicalizing millions of Hadithists)?
So rather than blame the misinterpretation of God's laws (so called Shariah) I believe one should be looking at how MEN implement ALL laws.
Salam
Ed -
The so called "Muslim" governments who think they are following the guidelines or laws of God are corrupt and led by self-interested men who have their own interests in mind.
However, secular laws are not different. I don't think that it is a fair "international" law that leads men in secular western countries to invade other nations for their own interests (and thereby murdering millions and stealing all resources & radicalizing millions of Hadithists)?
So rather than blame the misinterpretation of God's laws (so called Shariah) I believe one should be looking at how MEN implement ALL laws.
Salam
EdThat is right, it does not matter whether it is religion or it is ideology or it is any other kind of collective disciplinning, like fashion, it is the eole who use it and let themselbe be used through it.
Salaam
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When I read the first part it sounded like they must get equal portions. But then the second line above got me confused. If wealth is distributed equally between the two females, then there will be nothing left for the son.
It's flipping the coin the other way around for some weird reasons.
Anyway thank you for being honest handshakebtw. both sides of the coin are nonsense, making it pro women does not make something right.
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It's flipping the coin the other way around for some weird reasons.
Anyway thank you for being honest handshakebtw. both sides of the coin are nonsense, making it pro women does not make something right.
How is it flipping the the coin to give the same amount the three of two daughters and a son?
So if women are not given hal the male but the same amount it is flipping the coin? I am ashtounded.
Salaam