Coonecting 4:34, 4:35, 2:226, 227, 228

[unknownuser]

434 The men are to support the women with what God has bestowed upon them over one another and for what they spend of their money. The upright females are devoted; keeping private the personal matters for what God keeps watch over. As for those females from whose arising you fear, then you shall advise them, and abandon them in the bedchambers, and separate from them; if they obey you, then do not seek a way over them; God is Most High, Great.

2226 For those who abstain from their wives, they shall be given four months. If they renounce, then God is Forgiving, Merciful.

435 And if you fear a permanent rift between them, then send a judge from his family and a judge from her family. If they want to reconcile, then God will bring them together. God is Knowledgeable, Expert.

2227 And if they insist on the divorce, then God is Hearer, Knowledgeable.

2228 The divorced women shall keep themselves in waiting for three menstruations and it is not lawful for them to conceal what God has created in their wombs if they believe in God and the Last Day. Their husbands have more right to take them back if they wish to reconcile. The women have rights equitably*1 as well as obligations, and the men have a degree over *2 them. God is Dignified, Wise.

1* This alone nullifies the whole concept of men divorcing their wives on the spot and women having to go to court for a divorce (NOT IN THE QURAN)

2* This makes it a bit confusing, first its saying women and men have equal rights and then its saying men have more? I suppose this is referring to pregnancy, that if a man finds out his wife is pregnant , and since he's the one who divorced her he can take her back. I guess it also means (since ive seen the use of 'degree; in each quranic verses and many times the word degree has been used alongside 'provision', as in he provides for her) responsibility. Some people like to put "advantage" in brackets which i think is pretty horrible. It is important to note if you search in the corpus the word degree is used alongside "livelihood" (as in men have the livelihood since they earn so they must support them.)

I joined all these verses together because its always confused me how apparently men can divorce their wives on the spot, no fault, no reason or anything needed. This kinda clears off the misconception. It shows all these steps he needs to take to divorce. Wow, I always hated the 434 verse because of the notorious beating women. But if you see it carefully it protects women from the no-fault divorce men and sectarians claim they have. If only the sectarians will realize. This also refutes oral/instantaneous divorce http//submission.org/Divorce.html.

Anyway, we can throw as many verses and explanations as we want to sectarians they wont realize , they'll keep their oppression ongoing. I hope Allah changes things soon.

[Wakas]

Divorce procedure as per Quran
http//www.quran434.com/wife-beating-islam.html#part3

[huruf]

434 The men are to support the women with what God has bestowed upon them over one another and for what they spend of their money. The upright females are devoted; keeping private the personal matters for what God keeps watch over. As for those females from whose arising you fear, then you shall advise them, and abandon them in the bedchambers, and separate from them; if they obey you, then do not seek a way over them; God is Most High, Great.

2226 For those who abstain from their wives, they shall be given four months. If they renounce, then God is Forgiving, Merciful.

435 And if you fear a permanent rift between them, then send a judge from his family and a judge from her family. If they want to reconcile, then God will bring them together. God is Knowledgeable, Expert.

2227 And if they insist on the divorce, then God is Hearer, Knowledgeable.

2228 The divorced women shall keep themselves in waiting for three menstruations and it is not lawful for them to conceal what God has created in their wombs if they believe in God and the Last Day. Their husbands have more right to take them back if they wish to reconcile. The women have rights equitably*1 as well as obligations, and the men have a degree over *2 them. God is Dignified, Wise.

1* This alone nullifies the whole concept of men divorcing their wives on the spot and women having to go to court for a divorce (NOT IN THE QURAN)

2* This makes it a bit confusing, first its saying women and men have equal rights and then its saying men have more? I suppose this is referring to pregnancy, that if a man finds out his wife is pregnant , and since he's the one who divorced her he can take her back. I guess it also means (since ive seen the use of 'degree; in each quranic verses and many times the word degree has been used alongside 'provision', as in he provides for her) responsibility. Some people like to put "advantage" in brackets which i think is pretty horrible. It is important to note if you search in the corpus the word degree is used alongside "livelihood" (as in men have the livelihood since they earn so they must support them.)

I joined all these verses together because its always confused me how apparently men can divorce their wives on the spot, no fault, no reason or anything needed. This kinda clears off the misconception. It shows all these steps he needs to take to divorce. Wow, I always hated the 434 verse because of the notorious beating women. But if you see it carefully it protects women from the no-fault divorce men and sectarians claim they have. If only the sectarians will realize. This also refutes oral/instantaneous divorce http//submission.org/Divorce.html.

Anyway, we can throw as many verses and explanations as we want to sectarians they wont realize , they'll keep their oppression ongoing. I hope Allah changes things soon.

I do not know which translation you have used, but it is more pitiful than others, particularly 4.34 and 2.228, which of course doe snot say that they have the same rights as against them but the the other have more, that aboslute nonsense, your as abeautiful as the other but the other is more beautiful, right? complete sense, and it seems tht these kinds of translations have been going on all the time without anybody finding that it cannot be.

And there is mor ethan that, but it becomes too laborious.

In fact 2.228 settles everything since it says that women hav same rights as exercised against them regarding rpecisely what is being tdealt with, divorce, the degree shich is spoken after is the degree of responsibility that men have if there were descendance.

Salaam
Salaam

[unknownuser]

Divorce procedure as per Quran
http//www.quran434.com/wife-beating-islam.html#part3

ah thanks for that. one thing though, they forget to put in the arbitrator verse 435. this verse is extremely important, as it helps the couple and eliminates any fallacies of oral/instantaneous divorce. also maintainence isnt limited to just interim period, per 2241 Allah doesnt specify how long it will be, ofcourse stuff like that depends on how long they were married for, the financial position of the wife etc. it took alot of frustrated studying for me to figure out that 'maintainence only for interim' is something sectarians made up by throwing in hadith, thus taking away a divorce womens' right to alimony.
again why the arbitrator 435 verse comes in to help decide things like this. i feel like this doesnt only have to be the family, marriage counselors can help too.

one thing i disagree with though is them saying "the breaker compensates", it says time and time again never to take back dowry given to a women, plus esp back in that centuary women would not be earners hence could not compensate, almost trapping them to be in the marriage. "since women have rights similar to men, but men have a degree of responsibility" according to 2228, means that women will have the same right to men to initiate divorce but will not have to pay nafaqa or dowry to men (esp since these things dont even exist in the quran for women), so im really not sure where he gets that from.

[unknownuser]

I do not know which translation you have used, but it is more pitiful than others, particularly 4.34 and 2.228, which of course doe snot say that they have the same rights as against them but the the other have more, that aboslute nonsense, your as abeautiful as the other but the other is more beautiful, right? complete sense, and it seems tht these kinds of translations have been going on all the time without anybody finding that it cannot be.

And there is mor ethan that, but it becomes too laborious.

In fact 2.228 settles everything since it says that women hav same rights as exercised against them regarding rpecisely what is being tdealt with, divorce, the degree shich is spoken after is the degree of responsibility that men have if there were descendance.

Salaam
Salaam

hey like i mentioned, i was reading the verses' arabic word for 'degree' in the quran corpus, and that word is often used with "provision" and livelihood". hence ofcourse the verse isnt saying that men have more rights, but rather men have the responsibility to provide their wives with that sustenance and livelihood.

[Wakas]

one thing i disagree with though is them saying "the breaker compensates", it says time and time again never to take back dowry given to a women, plus esp back in that centuary women would not be earners hence could not compensate, almost trapping them to be in the marriage. "since women have rights similar to men, but men have a degree of responsibility" according to 2228, means that women will have the same right to men to initiate divorce but will not have to pay nafaqa or dowry to men (esp since these things dont even exist in the quran for women), so im really not sure where he gets that from.

So your view is the contract-breaking party does not need to compensate the other? Never read that interpretation before. )

[unknownuser]

So your view is the contract-breaking party does not need to compensate the other? Never read that interpretation before. )

i thought we're following the quran, which never makes any case of women maintaining or supporting men. im not saying that a woman who divorces a man for no fault can just take all his money as she goes...ofcourse thats something a divorce court will deal with. but the idea of a divorced women needing to maintain/support/her husband is not validated by the book. (esp 2241) what if she's a housewife as most women were at that time with no money? would she then have no choice but to stay in the marriage (what if its abusive). hence there's no system of dowry or nafaqa of women paying men.

http//www.quran-islam.org/articles/part_5/male_superiority_(P1507).html claim 3

mr. wakas i think the case is if a woman divorces she should let go of her dowry claim. however if she's made sacrfices for her husbands career or if she's been married for years then i guess per 2241 she can still claim for maintainence. Ofcourse only a judge or qazi or families can decide how much this maintainence will be and for how long, and usually needs to show a valid reason of divorce to get maintainence (hence a woman cant just divorce a man for no fault and expect compensation). this system works similar in the west too, unfortuantely many muslim countries withdrew from their own book.

[Wakas]

I never mentioned maintenance/support.

In any case, it should be noted that a couple can mutually agree upon whatever they want in the marriage contract prior to marriage, including what compensation is due (if any) after divorce etc.