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  4. The deeds in vain discussion

The deeds in vain discussion

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  • F Offline
    F Offline
    farati
    wrote on last edited by
    #1

    Hello,

    The verse like 55 implies that those who are faithless, their deeds will be in vain. This kind of contradicts with other verses where God clearly says that anyone who did good will be rewarded for it.

    Am I missing smth?

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    • H Offline
      H Offline
      huruf
      wrote on last edited by
      #2

      Yes, you are missing something the meaning of of the words, yakfuru and the meaning of the word iman.

      You an do good deed for a bad purpose, like in order to be admired, not because yu wanted to help anybody, it is like in sura . That would be akin to what sura 107 Al ma3un says.

      HAST THOU ever considered who gives the lie to all moral law? (1) Behold, it is this that thrusts the orphan away, (2) and feels no urge to feed the needy. (3) Woe, then, unto those praying ones (4) whose hearts from their prayer are remote (5) those who want only to be seen and praised, (6) and, withal, deny all assistance ! (7)

      5.5. Wa man yakfuru bil- iman it is the same, yakfuru, gives the lie, that is is not sincere, does not do out of sincerity of purpose but for devious reasons. iman, is faithfulness, but no in any religious cofified menaing, but its tru universal meaning.

      If i do something it is because I believe in doing that something, no becaus eI hop to be considered correcto or recive sone acknowlement or fear that if a do not do it i may miss some benefit.

      To do good you must want to do good. And even if you try but you do not attain to doing good it is still good because you did it for goodness sake.

      Salaam

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      • F Offline
        F Offline
        farati
        wrote on last edited by
        #3

        Yes, you are missing something the meaning of of the words, yakfuru and the meaning of the word iman.

        You an do good deed for a bad purpose, like in order to be admired, not because yu wanted to help anybody, it is like in sura . That would be akin to what sura 107 Al ma3un says.

        HAST THOU ever considered who gives the lie to all moral law? (1) Behold, it is this that thrusts the orphan away, (2) and feels no urge to feed the needy. (3) Woe, then, unto those praying ones (4) whose hearts from their prayer are remote (5) those who want only to be seen and praised, (6) and, withal, deny all assistance ! (7)

        5.5. Wa man yakfuru bil- iman it is the same, yakfuru, gives the lie, that is is not sincere, does not do out of sincerity of purpose but for devious reasons. iman, is faithfulness, but no in any religious cofified menaing, but its tru universal meaning.

        If i do something it is because I believe in doing that something, no becaus eI hop to be considered correcto or recive sone acknowlement or fear that if a do not do it i may miss some benefit.

        To do good you must want to do good. And even if you try but you do not attain to doing good it is still good because you did it for goodness sake.

        Salaam

        So it is simply an incoherent translation.

        What about verse 14. 18? I think it implies the same.

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        • H Offline
          H Offline
          huruf
          wrote on last edited by
          #4

          It comes down to the meaning of kafara.

          I think that meaning is hishonesty, trying to convince ourselves or others that what is wrong is right, trying to make a lie pass.

          We get precisely what is described in this aya you mention 14.18. Whatever we do is like ashes blwn in te wind... nothing. What is a lie? a lie is something that is not, its being is precisely not being.

          Kafara is not to say I do not believe in God, if we do NOESTLY do not believe in God, whatever we consider God is or means.

          In this aya 14.18 the word God is not used, rather the word rabb is used. Rabb is translated by many as "lord", which is not saying much. Others translate as Sustainer, which says far more. It is clear from the word "go" that God is lord very much lord of everything and everyone. Rabb does not deny that, no name of god does, but certainly it is something added tht makes the difference. Sustainer is fine. Tha aya says "those who are dishonest with their sustainer"that is, with what sustains them, with what gives them substance and entity.

          If we were budling something and did that, ignore the substance we are working with, what holds it together and makes it into what it is, what is going to happen? Certainly not what we hope for, and we will be cheating urselves if we say tht we should what we hope for, because we have tricked in the essentials. We are not transofmring ourselves into something better, be it very, very little. We are cheating. We may keep up appearances, but that is it.

          That is the problem with many overreligious pretenders and "reformers of people via political islam. What they get is a rotten society given completely to eppearances and not to goodness. Not seeking the power to transform our hearts and minds to get closer to our sustainer, but seeking to cheat our peers trough our apparent adherence to religious duties.

          Popular wisdom says that lies have short legs... And lying to ourselves has them shorter than short.

          Salaam

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