Religous Pluralism
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You are a good one. You make your own definitions and ocme and tll me not to make them.
Nushuz is not fahisha. if nushuz were fahisha it would be called fahisha not nushuz.
And you do not know what nushuz means and you do notknow even what you read.
And since you do not know what you read, you figure tht I habe not seen or noticed the nushuz in 4.128.
Wrong, I discovered it long time ago. And there is a big difference between the situation in 4.34 and 4.128,.
In 4.128 it is speakinng about a couple, in 4.34 it speaking not about couples but about women. The part about the nushuz does not mention couples but women in plural, and the adressee as in all those ayas are the believers, men and women, the addresse are not any husbands which do not appear at all in the aya.
You may not want to arge about this, but you have argued.
You are dead afraid. ou are dead afeaid that God may hate women just as some males have hated women to have made this aya into whhat they say it is and which it is not. And you want to punish me for daring to contradict that, because you do not have the strength to oppose that nor know how to. So it is more omfortable to accept the statu quo and agree with the usual stupidy superposed on this aya.
Have it any way you like but you cannot impose you view on others. A view which obviously does nto ake you happy but whhich in spite of it you want that it comes out as the winner.
I won't play that game. The usual version is illogical and nonsensical and I will say it as may times as I am able to because it is a slander of God and a slander of women.
Salaam
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Are you speaking to me?
& & & &
NOOOOOO PLEASE DON'T BE MAD AT ME
'( '(I'll explain. I was up all night reading really interesting posts here for example this one
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=11372.20
And that's where I got the idea from. I did not mean to make anyone angry!!!! -[ -[ -[
It was merely an idea, one that I've seen supported here on this forum. JUST AN IDEA.
Please don't be mad at me please please '( -[
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Pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
UGH I don't even know why I bought surah nisa up you're right I don't know why.
I just wanted to know what you guys thought about religous pluralism, and perhaps like how the quran from allah was sending the system of peacemaking somehow got turned into the religion of Islam...same happened to all religions.
No divisions, no more "my religion is better than yours" or "my book is better than yours" but only justice and love. I'm sure that's what everyone wants and that's certainly what rahman raheem would want.
hail hail
Alhumdulilah...
SO PLEASE DON'T BE MAD. I'LL MAIL YOU A COOKIE &
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You are a good one. You make your own definitions and ocme and tll me not to make them.
Nushuz is not fahisha. if nushuz were fahisha it would be called fahisha not nushuz.
And you do not know what nushuz means and you do notknow even what you read.
And since you do not know what you read, you figure tht I habe not seen or noticed the nushuz in 4.128.
Wrong, I discovered it long time ago. And there is a big difference between the situation in 4.34 and 4.128,.
In 4.128 it is speakinng about a couple, in 4.34 it speaking not about couples but about women. The part about the nushuz does not mention couples but women in plural, and the adressee as in all those ayas are the believers, men and women, the addresse are not any husbands which do not appear at all in the aya.
You may not want to arge about this, but you have argued.
You are dead afraid. ou are dead afeaid that God may hate women just as some males have hated women to have made this aya into whhat they say it is and which it is not. And you want to punish me for daring to contradict that, because you do not have the strength to oppose that nor know how to. So it is more omfortable to accept the statu quo and agree with the usual stupidy superposed on this aya.
Have it any way you like but you cannot impose you view on others. A view which obviously does nto ake you happy but whhich in spite of it you want that it comes out as the winner.
I won't play that game. The usual version is illogical and nonsensical and I will say it as may times as I am able to because it is a slander of God and a slander of women.
Salaam
Nooo?ooooooooooooooooooooooo
I wasn't speaking to you at all. I was speaking to inrankhwaja. He's the one who said nushuz was fashiha and was implying it's ok for domestic abuse if the wife is cheating.
That's why I got mad and brought up 4128. I never meant to I wasn't talking to you.
This always happens to me giveup giveup giveup
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I don't know why EdQ is always giving me cold responses but I don't really care.
Really? You don't care? Was that a freudian slip?
In any case, I am not sure why you are always finding faults in Islam and the Quran - and without any proof keep claiming that the Quran is corrupted - just because you don't like an aspect of it - my sincere advice to you would leave Islam and become an Ex-something if that makes you so happy (based on your posts) and if you feel so many problems with it.
Why be a part of something that tortures you to post so many cold responses and statements?
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I have already left the oppressive man made cult falsely named "Islam."
bravo bravo
As far the Quran, yes the essence still remains. I'm reading a very interesting thread on this forum suggesting the quran was never actually in Arabic. Perhaps I'll link it when I'm done reading what the conclusion was. Too bad those users are all unactive now.they were truly open minded.
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I have already left the oppressive man made cult falsely named "Islam."
bravo bravo
As far the Quran, yes the essence still remains. I'm reading a very interesting thread on this forum suggesting the quran was never actually in Arabic. Perhaps I'll link it when I'm done reading what the conclusion was. Too bad those users are all unactive now.they were truly open minded.
Great. Goodbye.
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Proof eh nice one.
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=11372.0
I really wish these users were online at see so much guidance in there posts. I wonder how long they studied to reach that point. I hope I go there soon as well inshAllahI just realized something.
Someone please correct me, is the word madhab ever used in the Quran? Wow, not even once.
Who knows where these false religions came from.brickwall brickwall
Controlling the masses.
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Please remove the post mods .... '( '( '(
I don't want people I respect reel, Comrox, good logic, zulf etc getting upset at anything I say either. '( '(
I feel like everything I say comes out in elvish rotfl
Thnx hypno
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Again I don't think ALL OF quran is corrupt. Just the part where the merciful god is calling people donkeys and throwing people in eternal hell fire rotfl
Peace, it's very wise advice from luq'man to his son not to prance about arrogantly mocking and ranting mindlessly.
311 alif lam meem
312 those signs the book the wise
313 guidance and mercy to the good doers
314 the ones keeping the connection and giving the recompense its and they in the last/afterlife themselves assured being
315 those on guidance from lord theirs and those themselves the succeeding
316 and among the humankind who purchases idle l-adthi/the tales to misguided about path the god in other than/without knowledge and taketh it mock of those for them punishment shameful
317 and when recited on him signs ours retreat arrogant of like if/be not heard them were in ears his deafness of in punishment dire
318 indeed the ones believes they of and do they of the righteous for them gardens the pleasures
319 eternally live therein promise the god truthful and he the mighty the wise
3110 creation of the heavens without columns thou seeing it and cast in the land firm mountains lest/that it shake with you and dispersed therein from each creature and descends we of from the heaven water so grew we of therein from each spouse noble
3111 this creation the god so show ye me what hath creation of the those who from besides him rather the wrongdoing in misguidance clear
3112 and surely gave we of luq'mna the wisdom that be thankful to god and whoever grateful so only grateful for soul his and whoever disregard so surely the god ample praiseworthy
3113 and when said luq'mnu to son his and he advises him O son mine not associate partners with the god indeed the associate partners surely wrong major
3114 and instruct we of the human with parents dual his carry him mother his weak of on weak and separation his in year two that be thankful to me and to parents dual your to me the destiny
3115 and if endeavor dual against you on that associate partners with me what not is to you in it knowledge so not obey them dual and accompany them dual in the world fair manner of and follows path who turns to me furthermore to me return yours so shall inform you in what be you working
3116 O son mine indeed it if were it weight grain from mustard seed so that be in rock or in the heavens or in the land comes with it the god indeed the god gentle aware
3117 O son mine establish the connection and direct in the fair manner and forbid about the wrong and patience on what struck you indeed such from matters the determination
3118 and not thou turn cheek your to the humankind and not walk in the land insolent of indeed the god not loves each self-conceited boaster
3119 and be moderate in pace yours and lower from voice yours indeed harshest the voices surely voice the donkeys (i.e. those ranting mindlessly)
3120 did not see ye of that the god subjected for you what in the heavens and what in the land and caused upon you favor his visible apparent it bounties his and among the humankind who argue in the god in other than/without knowledge and not guidance and not book illuminate
3121 and when said to them follows ye of what descends the god said they of rather we follow what found we of on it fathers ours even while be the devil calls them to punishment the blaze
3122 and who submitted a direction face/countenance his to the god and he good doer so verily clenched in the handhold the trustworthy/firm and toward the god end the determination
3123 and who disregard so not that grieve you disregard his to us return theirs so we inform them in what did they of indeed the god knower in what the breasts
3124 we grant enjoyment them little of furthermore we force them to punishment severe
3125 and surely if ask you them who creation the heavens and the land surely says they the god say the praise to god rather more them not knowing
3126 to god what in the heavens and the land indeed the god he the ample the praiseworthy
3127 and in case that what/whatever in the land from tree pens and the sea add to it from after it septet waters not exhausted communiqu? the god indeed the god mighty wise
3128 not creation yours and not resurrection yours except as/like soul single indeed the god hearer seer
3129 did not see that the god merges the night in the daytime and merges the daytime in the night and subjected the sun and the moon each flows to term specified and that the god in what thou working aware
3130 such because the god he the truth and that what calling from besides him the falsehood and that the god he the exalted the great
3131 did not see that the ship flow in the sea by favor it the god to show you from signs his indeed in such surely signs to each patient appreciator
3132 and when covers them wave like the shades called they of the god sincere for him the creed so when delivers them to the dry land so among them some are moderate and not denied in verses ours except each ungrateful of
3133 O you the humankind fear ye of lord yours and be mindful day of not availed begetter about offspring his and not offspring he avail about parent thing of indeed promise the god true so not let deceive you the life the world and not let deceive you in the god the deceiver
3134 indeed the god near/with him knowledge the hour and descended the relief and knowledge what in the wombs and not knows soul what hath it earned tomorrow and not knows soul in which land it die indeed the god knower awarepage one of oldest manuscripts MA VI 165 probability 95.4% between 649-675 CE
http//idb.ub.uni-tuebingen.de/diglit/MaVI165https//s22.postimg.org/81vl4qx29/ch31v16-23.jpg
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group
I know Im not saying anything of my own...I was just repeating some really old threads here. I mistakenly thought that was also the general consensus of this forum. Im new to this forum so I didnt know that the overall opinion was different than what those users posted. There very interesting threads though. Again nothing of my own conjecture. I dont know. I am interested in what both say. I believe what my moral compass (3030) can rest on.
b ow. angel
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are you disagree with the meanings of islam =peace?
Yes, I disagree with this meaning in Quran.
Islam in Quran means soundness of the mind, more accurately action to perform soundness of the mind.
The goal is to clarify from spiritual confusion.It doesn't mean peace in the sense of social peace of a community or a nation, this is a misinterpretation IMO, that can have far reaching consequences.
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ive seen "peacemaking" hence a verb be a better fit than peace.
didnt br ayman write a book on this?Also, "the only system/deen that will be accepted is soundness of mind?" . -verse i cant remember.
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sis comrox is an angel btw
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Baitachal, I am not angry with you, of course not. This is a debate forum and we debate, some times hotter than others, but no reason to get mad at anybody when there is good will and I do not doubt your good will and in fact I can share your feelings many times, because many of us have gon through what you are going through amd besides because in, some tender way, I have adopted you. Your are a young person, full of honest rage at things that upset you very much and you cannot change. You have the unbearable vehemence of youth which makes everything so intense that you feel boiling all over. That I undrstand and I cannot get mad at somebody who tries. That is far more endearing and honest than keeping mum and put up with anything.
But tht, I acknowledge, my expression may be very very forceful and it may seem that I am angr when in fact I am not, I am just very much carried away with what I feel i should defend, not for my sake only but because I think that it is good, that it will do good, as truth does good.
So, sweet Baitachal, do not worry. I am not angry atany honest person however wrong she may be. We have been wrong, all of us, I think, about so many things, all through our life...
Also, when judging Qur'an, you have to remember a sentence by Cardinal Richelieu which is very enlightening
"Give me three lines written by the most innocent man on earth and I will find enough grounds to hang him."
This tells you that any text can be turned into an indictement of anybody if you have the will and lak of scruples to make of it what you want of it, regardless of its true content. Your evil design will reign supreme.
That is what has been done all along with revelation. Where it does nto serve the purposes of the shaytans simple impose on it a new version that will negate its nature and push it authoritatively.
Salaam
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Inrankhwaja,
Nushuz =\ fashiha.
Stop making your own definitions. You ignored again, what about when wife experiencing nushuz 4128.i think i made a very simple defination, its another matter if you dnt understand..
you said nushuz = disobeyment ... i agree
i said disobeyment include , fahish acts, zina , adultery , cheating.. (why dnt u agree) ?lets put it on test ,
can you find me any husband who allowed her wife to do these things ?
if she do these things what will be the response of husband?is he allowed to use a word "disobeying women" for this situation.. or he will think that becoz quran did not meant cheating as (disobeyment) ..
if a man is not gentle man he will gona put the flowers in the neck of women for such a beautiful work done by her.. there are different varites of people exist in this strange world..
some of them dnt really bother what their women doing behind their back..
some of them forcefully push their wives to do prositution
but we know these type of people are not gentlemans..when you manage to understand this , perhaps you change ur perception..
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Yes, I disagree with this meaning in Quran.
handshake
its your right to disagree
BTW send me the source where you drive this interpretation i love to read that
peace -
Huruf already explained the difference between the two words.
By your logic
If disobey = adultery
Then
Obey = legal sex
SO next time you obey people you'll be intending something else ok that's your logic.
Go one make up your false words to support your silly stories elsewhere, this thread is CLOSED.
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Disobey is nushuz?
Prove it.
And whom should women, in plural obey. Not wives, there are no wives int he aya. And should not there be an order to disobey before you can disobey anything?
So does that mean that the husband in 4.128 disobeys his wife?
You cannot make words at will. Neither you nor any of the self-appointed interpreters of God through history. You need logic and consistency to put on the Qur'an's mouth any word and meaning you prefer.
Salaam
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By your logic
If disobey = adultery
Then
Obey = legal sex
handshake
my logic huh?
the logic of every gentleman .. every gentle man thinks cheating = disobeyment ,
if you dnt beleive in that logic than you are living in different universe i think..
look my post again and try to attempt the answers of my questions ..
oy yeh obey = legal sex(wedlock) , and lot of other things same like disobeyment include lot of other things...
do me a favor make a list of things what you think are considered as disobeyments ?
you can also take a survey of proving quran wrong? by all thise husbands whose wives are cheating with them ?
ask them is it true that your wives are disobeying you while they cheat?if your answers comes in "no" from atleast 10 husbands out of millions then i will think you make a great achievement
and learn some manner too .. God advise us to talk politely and humbly or do you have problem with this command of God too ?
peace and chill out