How to defend ourselves against ignorant people/traditional Muslims?

marthe

Salam everyone )

I don't know if the question has been asked before. Do you feel like you have to defend your self from all sides? Ignorant non-Muslims think you are some kind of extremist associated with Salafi Muslims and Wahabbis, etc. and some Muslims call you "kaffir", "munafiq" whenever you don't agree with them. But that is online. I have never challenged anyone in real life. How to deal with such people if you ever want to present your views to others (both online and in real life)? It does not seem like we will outnumber them anytime soon. Only God knows. I don't want to be associated with these versions of Islam, but sometimes I get doubts that maybe I am just a hypocrite like they say. I'm new to this. The only thing I have noticed is that these Muslims usually shut up if you only quote the Quran as they cannot argue with God. My soon to be husband insha'Allah is a Sunni traditional Muslim, but he is tolerant and often agree with me as I'm taking things slow with him about my beliefs. I just fear as being the only hadith rejecter among the Muslims in town that I know of I will have to just nod my head at what they say. What are your experience and don't you feel all alone if you are the only one you know of in your area?

Jafar

I don't want to be associated with these versions of Islam

Then don't associate yourselves with Islam identity.. it is actually that simple...

but sometimes I get doubts that maybe I am just a hypocrite like they say.

Don't worry.. because you are...
We are all hypocrites.. we are very good at seeing flaws of others and very bad at seeing flaws within ourselves..
It's normal.. that's among human's characteristics... it has something to do with EGO..

Yet there's a huge differences between a hypocrite who are aware that he / she might be a hypocrite.. and those who are not aware and continuously deny / reject his / her own hypocrisy..

I'm new to this. The only thing I have noticed is that these Muslims usually shut up if you only quote the Quran as they cannot argue with God.

Nobody can argue with God... everything can only follow His direction / plan... yet Quran is not a God..

My soon to be husband insha'Allah is a Sunni traditional Muslim, but he is tolerant and often agree with me as I'm taking things slow with him about my beliefs. I just fear as being the only hadith rejecter among the Muslims in town that I know of I will have to just nod my head at what they say. What are your experience and don't you feel all alone if you are the only one you know of in your area?

Congratulations on your soon to be wedding...
You don't need to identify yourself as "hadith rejecter" either...
We already have too many religion / cult /sect, there's no need to create a new one..
Build bridges among human and not wall..

My advice.. always follow your own conscience and common sense.. reject anything that is bad regardless of the sources and accept anything that is good regardless of the sources..

Based on a psychology experiment done in mid 60s, human will disregard his / her own conscience and common sense once they are faced with FEAR coming from AUTHORITY / Authorative figure. Only 1% are able to face up to his/her own fear and sided with his / her own conscience and stood up against Authority. With such low percentage.. loneliness need to be accepted as a fact of life and among the consequences of siding with your own conscience and common sense, if you choose to do so yourselves..

Now regarding the best approach; starting a 'confrontation' might not be a wise move... and very ineffective as well..
Based on the case study of Abraham.... sentenced to death and the majority his people did not accept his idea as a result, regardless of how logical it is..
But be more like Siddharta.. just preach the idea without confronting any of the 'existing' idea....

And always remember that everything has it's own time... in accordance to God's plan...

Salam / Peace

A_Submitter

Dont marry a sectarian. Hes not a muslim, hes a sectarian who has set up partners with God.

Ask God for knowledge and wisdom, read the Quran. There are many verses, and the examples given in the Book.

Salam

Cerberus

You shouldn't make it a competition of who is right and who is wrong. If for some reasonable cause you want to state your opinion then do it and move on, if the other party don't like it, just avoid talking about those subjects with them next time. Just don't go around poking people and not expect some form of backlash.

Your belief revolves around you and what you make of it is the only importance of it. And of course if you are going to marry someone it's only wise to share your beliefs in order to tell whether or not you'll get along.

One last thing, "good" 'traditional sunni' men, in general, think that they have the upperhand over their women, and that they can and should correct them in matters such as, specifically, religious matters. For a traditional sunni muslim, getting a non believer or a poorly believing woman to believe in what they believe is like hitting the jackpot. So you need to check his intentions if you don't want your marriage to turn into a constant argument.

imrankhawaja

Dont marry a sectarian. Hes not a muslim, hes a sectarian who has set up partners with God.

Ask God for knowledge and wisdom, read the Quran. There are many verses, and the examples given in the Book.

Salam

yes exactly dnt marry secterian .. but i think she dnt have much options..

look at this..

sector God alone/quran alone..

code beleivers(submittors) vs non code beleivers(monothiests)

code beleivers is divided into two more sectors

i.e the one who beleive verses 128 and 129 is a part of scripture
another one reject it with all his efforts ..

God alone believers are divided into more sects than code beleivers..

i.e different person have different interpretation in which one is disagree with other ..

like the issue of salat(timings), fastings, some of them even make their own sects.. like pervezi(the followers of ghulam ahmed pervaiz)

the big difference between pervezi and God aloner

pervezi believe there is no miracles and jinss exist
God aloner believe its exist

even in this forum all wiseone /burnouts have different opinions

i.e some people believe polygamy is not allowed in any case apart from wars condition
some people believe polygmy is allowed to both women and man even sex outside the wedlock is permissible and do as much as u can..

some of them beleive in prophethood seal but mistakenly believe messengers are continue to come
some of them beleive messenger is by default a prophet hence no more prophet or messenger..

list is quite long..

so my brother let me know which one of them is correct..

lets make it this way , which is obviously my way..

peacemaker for a peacemaker, troublemaker for a troublemaker

either he/she is from sunni, shia, quranalone, god alone,code beleiver, christian, jew, buddist, hindu, or any tom dick harry.. (required attitude = peace)

i forget to tell you asian women hate black people even if they are muslim
if a quran alone black muslim want to marry with quran alone asian women she preffer to do suicide O0

look internal racism, which is not by God but its built inside human being..

and same goes with rich and poor... group

and yeh one very important thing... i forget to mention..
there is a soft corner of LGBT in quran alone community some of them reject it some of them accept it..
what a wonderful exception and offer , its called the westernise view of quran alone sector
so marriage between same sex is also a issue in quran alone community

imrankhawaja

now this post is specially dedicated to flat earth brothers.. ( i love flat earth topic due to which i m talking with all of you guys)

flat earth vs round earth

flat earthers include= quran alone muslim, christian, consprisy theorists, history expert like our brother pazazu, islamic scholar like sheikh of saudia.. etc

Round earthers include= quran alone, christian, historians , scientists, jews , hindus, sunni , shia etc..

interesting thing faith is not issue here.. the shape of earth is issue rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl

once all of them were under "one concept" before coloumbus discover something..
basically colombus was the one who make this sect , and now people are still fighting with eachother ...

for flat earther colombus is a villan, for round earther he is a hero.. tempt

good_logic

Imran,you forgot to add the type of foods we differ in eating,the type of movies we prefer to watch,the fashion we uphold...etc
Does all these things matter,if we unite on GOD Alone? After all the minimum criteria is believe in GOD,believe in accountability and do good deeds.
The penny is going to drop ,sooner or later,that humans differ in all sorts of ways and the only uniting factor is GOD Alone. Once we realise that we have only one GOD and one single system(Hence acknowledge /submit to GOD s system) things will start to make sense to all these divisions/races/religions,people will start to abondon the sinking ships!!!!....

Anyway,peace to you brother.

imrankhawaja

peace Gl , everybody(sect) beleive in God alone except athiests thats not the message of my post read it once more the theme is something else to ponder ..

BTW what food and fashion have to do with sect?

is there is any difference in religious laws and choices of selecting food and cloth?

reel

I bring up the raw academic work and that has silenced each and every nonMuslim who had that misconception about me. On Twitter, you will find even atheists agreeing that hadiths are the problem and that Quran looks sober without them. As for the sectarians, they just leave. We see a few on our subreddit. Outside I don't talk about my belief. We will never be too many in number ever. Sectarians would rather be atheist than Muslim. It is the truth in regions captured by ISIS. Plenty of local Arabs who saw them have turned atheist.

God alone believers are divided into more sects than code beleivers..

i.e different person have different interpretation in which one is disagree with other ..

like the issue of salat(timings), fastings, some of them even make their own sects..

Which ones seem more damaging?
a) disagreeing on salat(timings), fasting

b) disagreeing whether someone out of Islam deserves death sentence because of a book full of contradictions

c) oppressing females, animals, people of other religions, freedom to think and seek God's guidance

d) good intention, being aware, learning, reflecting, remembering that we are responsible for our deeds and not the Prophet

like pervezi(the followers of ghulam ahmed pervaiz)

the big difference between pervezi and God aloner

pervezi believe there is no miracles and jinss exist
God aloner believe its exist

pervezi didnt have Internet. Majority of us never heard of them.

imrankhawaja

pervezi didnt have Internet. Majority of us never heard of them.

they do have it now
and interestingly the interpretation of shabbir ahmed is totally on the teaching of ghulam ahmed pervaiz..

and its one of the popular quran alone translation.. he also reject miracles and jinns..

BTW my sweet sister the theme of my message is something else to ponder the same thing what i say to brother GL..

good_logic

Imran,
I see GOD Alone as a solution,GOD can unite the hearts regardless of religion,sect,race...etc.

How do we know the sincere from the "Munafiq" from the disbeliever in each religion? But GOD knows.

Also people are going to differ in views as long as there are races,nationalities and traditions.
So ,what is your solution?
Are you expecting a "single uniform understanding" from everyone? That will never happen and it is not required from the Lord. GOD gave a minimum requirement knowing this.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

imrankhawaja

peace Gl, my lovely brother, let me tell you something we were actually discussing about the marriages and i told my brother submitter not to think the way how majority see it ..
coz if we start looking a wife according to our religious thoughts then its impossible to find a partner untill life time..
faith and marriage are two different things, if God interfere in catagorising the marriage then it will b the LAW for everybody so thats why author of quran did not impose a LAW. he is intelligent he did not bother who get married with who. so as a advise he suggest us to marry with the one who you think is compatible with you.. like peacemaker for peacmaker, backbitter wife for backbitter husband, criminal wife for criminal husband, regardless of religious label or nation of countries.. hope i make it clear now..

I see GOD Alone as a solution,GOD can unite the hearts regardless of religion,sect,race...etc.

lets talk about this quote .. how you will see it in the light of these verses. its appears God is the one who divide all of this

4913 O people, We created you from a male and female, and We made you into nations and tribes, that you may know one another. Surely, the most honorable among you in the sight of God is the most righteous. God is Knowledgeable, Ever-aware.

548 For each of you We have made laws, a structure. Had God willed, He would have made you all one nation, but He tests you with what He has given you, so advance the good deeds. To God you will return all of you, and He will inform you regarding that in which you dispute.

7168 And We divided them throughout the earth into nations

11118 And if your Lord had willed, He could have made mankind one community; but they will not cease to differ.

1693 Had God wished, He would have made you one nation, but He misguides whom He wishes, and He guides whom He wishes. You will be asked about what you used to do.

now look at this red part its bit confusing becoz if God misguide them then who is to blame?

738 He said, "Enter with the multitude of nations before you from humans and Jinn to the fire!" Every time a nation entered, it cursed its sister nation, until they are all gathered inside it; then the last of them says to the first "Our Lord, these are the ones who have misguided us, so give them double the retribution of the fire!" He replied "Each will receive double, but you do not know.

the ending verse is the climax of movie rotfl rotfl even in hell there are nations who blame eachother and still want other get double punishment ..hahahahahahahahaha oh my Gosh

good_logic

Yes brother , that dividing bit also applies,just like the uniting bit "GOD will work on the sincere hearts to unite them so they can become brothers and sisters".
Me,I like the "uniting" bit.
How about we let GOD decide?( OK, we have no choice!)
GOD bless you.
Peace.

imrankhawaja

again you are coming from far side of moon..

its God who make sincere hearts ?
he make sincere whom he wish and he make un-sincere whom he wish yes

God bless you..

about the choice things its a myth not a perfect understandings you can drive from any scripture
he choose things for us.. he choose time, place, nation, face, parents for us...
even death

we have just choice inside the box and BOX of life and everything belong to him..

he created that box what you have to accept willingly or unwillignly ..

our choice is the slave of God will...

reel

they do have it now
and interestingly the interpretation of shabbir ahmed is totally on the teaching of ghulam ahmed pervaiz..

and its one of the popular quran alone translation.. he also reject miracles and jinns..

BTW my sweet sister the theme of my message is something else to ponder the same thing what i say to brother GL..

I believe people should keep their options open. Love can be found anywhere. But I didn't see how the examples you gave form analogy matches a marriage situation with a sectarian.

Thanks for the info on Pervaiz. But how many of his followers are using the Internet? I haven't seen one.

imrankhawaja

I believe people should keep their options open. Love can be found anywhere. But I didn't see how the examples you gave form analogy matches a marriage situation with a sectarian.

hmm thats what i m trying to say marry with whoever you wish regardless of label race nation..
LOVE is the key (pure love)

coz if we try to find a quran alone wife its like to find a grain in sand of desert.. hmm

Thanks for the info on Pervaiz. But how many of his followers are using the Internet? I haven't seen one.

they are not different than other sect of God alone people so they never consider themself as "pervazi" its a label given to them by sunni people..

and i think there are lot of members in this forum who like the teaching of pervazi.. (and some of them follow it too)
the recent example of pervaizi teaching is shabbir ahmed interpretation

and moreover when i was declaring the God alone people it meant to be the one who follow only quran..

its a law of universe that grows from singularity to multiplication
same law apply to quran alone and rest of the nations .. like expanding universe..

but when God talk about a system its peacemaking , although from time to time God is telling us what actual system is acceptable infront of him.. he knows we will not be able to make us all one nation.. (how hard we try)

examples are infront of you

parvez_mushtaq

Salam everyone )

I don't know if the question has been asked before. Do you feel like you have to defend your self from all sides? Ignorant non-Muslims think you are some kind of extremist associated with Salafi Muslims and Wahabbis, etc. and some Muslims call you "kaffir", "munafiq" whenever you don't agree with them. But that is online. I have never challenged anyone in real life. How to deal with such people if you ever want to present your views to others (both online and in real life)? It does not seem like we will outnumber them anytime soon. Only God knows. I don't want to be associated with these versions of Islam, but sometimes I get doubts that maybe I am just a hypocrite like they say. I'm new to this. The only thing I have noticed is that these Muslims usually shut up if you only quote the Quran as they cannot argue with God. My soon to be husband insha'Allah is a Sunni traditional Muslim, but he is tolerant and often agree with me as I'm taking things slow with him about my beliefs. I just fear as being the only hadith rejecter among the Muslims in town that I know of I will have to just nod my head at what they say. What are your experience and don't you feel all alone if you are the only one you know of in your area?

firstly ,i don't understand why you want to make a war with them .why you want to announce that you belong to another new kind of sect called "quran alone" .accept them ,be with them and of course you have answered your question which i have underlined ,just produce proof from quran that is enough to shut their mouths
Marry that sunni and live happily .it is in the hands of ALLAH subhanavatala don't think too much just stick to basics which is ,of course quran and pl pl pl don't argue .

A_Submitter

yes exactly dnt marry secterian .. but i think she dnt have much options..

look at this..

sector God alone/quran alone..

code beleivers(submittors) vs non code beleivers(monothiests)

code beleivers is divided into two more sectors

i.e the one who beleive verses 128 and 129 is a part of scripture
another one reject it with all his efforts ..

God alone believers are divided into more sects than code beleivers..

i.e different person have different interpretation in which one is disagree with other ..

like the issue of salat(timings), fastings, some of them even make their own sects.. like pervezi(the followers of ghulam ahmed pervaiz)

the big difference between pervezi and God aloner

pervezi believe there is no miracles and jinss exist
God aloner believe its exist

even in this forum all wiseone /burnouts have different opinions

i.e some people believe polygamy is not allowed in any case apart from wars condition
some people believe polygmy is allowed to both women and man even sex outside the wedlock is permissible and do as much as u can..

some of them beleive in prophethood seal but mistakenly believe messengers are continue to come
some of them beleive messenger is by default a prophet hence no more prophet or messenger..

list is quite long..

so my brother let me know which one of them is correct..

lets make it this way , which is obviously my way..

peacemaker for a peacemaker, troublemaker for a troublemaker

either he/she is from sunni, shia, quranalone, god alone,code beleiver, christian, jew, buddist, hindu, or any tom dick harry.. (required attitude = peace)

i forget to tell you asian women hate black people even if they are muslim
if a quran alone black muslim want to marry with quran alone asian women she preffer to do suicide O0

look internal racism, which is not by God but its built inside human being..

and same goes with rich and poor... group

and yeh one very important thing... i forget to mention..
there is a soft corner of LGBT in quran alone community some of them reject it some of them accept it..
what a wonderful exception and offer , its called the westernise view of quran alone sector
so marriage between same sex is also a issue in quran alone community

I think you got some things wrong.

A submitter is a Muslim.
A believer is the other word, I think it's Mumin?

The minimum requirement is to be a submitter, or one who has submitted to God, depends how its translated. Theres a verse that God has named such.

A monotheist is the belief that theres one god, while a polytheist in many.

Those code 19 followers form their own sect because of one huge misunderstanding of a verse.

The Quran aloners, it sounds like a sect, but they dont want to belong to a sect. This name I believe was made by sectarians to distinguish those who reject hadith, calling them ahle Quran or something.

Then we have God aloners, which was made to distinguish from the sectarians who call themselves Muslims, which they arent.

The correct system and terms are the following

Submission-Islam
Submitters/those who have submitted-Muslims, Muslimeen in Arabic, and not the code 19 sect.
Believers-Mumineen? I dont know correct Arabic term.

We should begin calling the sectarians something else than Muslims, such as sectarians or hadithfollowers or devilworshippers.
We are the true Muslims while they are the fake ones. We shouldnt change what God has named us to distinguish from them. I believe hadith followers is the best term to describe fake Muslims who chant they are Muslims while following the books of the devil.

Salam

es

Marry that sunni and live happily .it is in the hands of ALLAH subhanavatala don't think too much just stick to basics which is ,of course quran and pl pl pl don't argue .

Surely if she marries him, it just gives her a license to manipulate him and become "dominant" and "independent" herself. Are you really encouraging such behaviour.

es

I think you got some things wrong.

A submitter is a Muslim.
A believer is the other word, I think it's Mumin?

The minimum requirement is to be a submitter, or one who has submitted to God, depends how its translated. Theres a verse that God has named such.

A monotheist is the belief that theres one god, while a polytheist in many.

Those code 19 followers form their own sect because of one huge misunderstanding of a verse.

The Quran aloners, it sounds like a sect, but they dont want to belong to a sect. This name I believe was made by sectarians to distinguish those who reject hadith, calling them ahle Quran or something.

Then we have God aloners, which was made to distinguish from the sectarians who call themselves Muslims, which they arent.

The correct system and terms are the following

Submission-Islam
Submitters/those who have submitted-Muslims, Muslimeen in Arabic, and not the code 19 sect.
Believers-Mumineen? I dont know correct Arabic term.

We should begin calling the sectarians something else than Muslims, such as sectarians or hadithfollowers or devilworshippers.
We are the true Muslims while they are the fake ones. We shouldnt change what God has named us to distinguish from them. I believe hadith followers is the best term to describe fake Muslims who chant they are Muslims while following the books of the devil.

Salam

Life's too short for all this hatred. I hope you realise that soon.