Quran on mountains???contradiction?

hawk99

Hawk99, you get me wrong. I don't feel negatively towards Qur'an.

I feel negatively towards readings that lead to obscurantism.

Among readings that lead to obscurantism, we have

Qur'an as divine endorsement of Sunna. This is traditional Islam, sunnism and shiism.
Qur'an as a divine book establishing a list of rituals. This is most quran-only approaches as well as traditional Islam
Seriously, why this fuss just for a list of rituals that differ from previous religions ?
This is degrading the status of Qur'an and taking God for an idiot.
Concordism. That is trying to match Qur'an understanding and translation with modern scientific discoveries.
Since science evolves and theories can be dismissed, then your efforts towards concordism will be nullified in the future.
Then either you will have to reject Qur'an at all, or refuse the new theory.

Peace Anoushirvan,

I accept your explanation of obscurantism, however your conclusion
is not necessarily the only possible outcome. The Quran does not
in my opinion lead to the endorsement of the Sunna of Muhammad,
to the contrary, "the only Sunna to be adhered to is the Sunna of Allah"
As for those who do or believe otherwise shaytayn has led them astray.

As far as your point of view as it pertains to concordance I don't
view bringing together science and religion as a conspiracy but over
zealousness on the part of the authors to be taken with a grain of salt.

peace

Anoushirvan

Peace good logic,

Peace Anoushirvan.
Let me commemt on this quote of yours,if I may

If you are dependant on science to increase your level of knowledge in order to understand Qur'an, then Qur'an is not clear at all, which contradicts a lot of verses in Qur'an that says it is clear.

Science is clear? How clear was it few decades ago? Does Science stay still? So how can you depend on something that keeps changing as l it is on an evolving course like you /me/all of us?.

This is exactly what I was trying to explain to you and Novice since a few messages, but it looks like you are misreading me.
You are depending on science, here geology, to understand Qur'an.
This is flawed of course, since science is evolving.

Where as Qoran it stays the same . It is the same book since it was revealed. So where does the credibility belong?

Of course Qur'an stays the same, like Les Mis?rables of Victor Hugo.
Nay, quranic text we have today was frozen in 1923 by Al-Azhar whereas Les Mis?rables have never changed since they were published.

And Newton's theory was described in his book Principiae Mathematicae, that will stay like this forever. Yet, Newton's theory has been deprecated by newer theories in the 20th century.

So this argument that Qur'an is superior to science because it stays the same is flawed.

When you say Qoran is not clear,do you mean you/we/Science have not got the capacity yet to understand some of its verses?

You keep misreading me and skip some parts of what I wrote.
I wrote "If you are dependant on science to increase your level of knowledge in order to understand Qur'an, then Qur'an is not clear at all".

Let's face it you should be able to understand Qur'an without having to study geology.
If you need to study what is isostatic balance to understand some verses in Qur'an then Qur'an is not clear for you. Don't try to hide yourself behind hypothetical translation flaws.

The only external source of knowledge that is explicitely mentioned in Qur'an is the knowledge of Bible (that includes Talmud and Midrash) by rabbins.
And in my understanding, most of Qur'an is pretty clear, provided you let it explains what it has to say.

There are few key words for which correct meaning has indeed been lost Rabb, salat, zakah, sujud, islam, iman...If you don't understand them correctly, then you don't understand Qur'an.

But not the complete text.
All this fuss raised about false translations is mostly bullshit and smoke cloud, except for a few key verses.

I'm capable to read Qur'an in Arabic and the translations I gave above don't have significant flaws.

Qoran says to all"Wait,the future belongs to GOD".
The problem with rushing ahead with our logic is leading to the wrong priority . Science is on a learning curve,still searching for truths. Qoran has brought you the truth over 1400 years ago! Will you recognise it?

Please give me a single scientific discovery that was done by a careful reading of Qur'an.
I know none of them.

On the contrary, you keep running after science to explain you how mountains were created in order to adjust your understanding of Qur'an.

And by the way, science doesn't search truth. Science searches to understand the reality that is accessible by our senses and their extensions, i.e. measure instruments.

Anoushirvan

Peace Anoushirvan,

I accept your explanation of obscurantism, however your conclusion
is not necessarily the only possible outcome. The Quran does not
in my opinion lead to the endorsement of the Sunna of Muhammad,
to the contrary, "the only Sunna to be adhered to is the Sunna of Allah"
As for those who do or believe otherwise shaytayn has led them astray.

Peace hawk99, I agree.
I didn't say that Qur'an leads to the endorsement of the Sunna of Muhammad. I said traditional islam, i.e. sunnism and shiism, believe it does. (I'm a former sunni, I know that).

good_logic

Peace Anoushirvan.
I am not one of those that wants science to acknowledge Qoran or to prove anything about Qoran. I do not care whether Science does or not.
I follow Qoran because I am certain it is a message from our creator.I have a solid proof for that.

I try my best to study Qoran to try and lead my life according to the system of the One who created me and knows me inside out.
To be honest with you I only worry about my own neck,although I love people to ponder why they are here.

So,I know that each one of us is accountable for their own deeds and choices. I do not care or worry what anyone makes of Qoran.
For me Qoran is GOD s argument against the arrogant nafs of the unappreciative human being.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

hawk99

Peace hawk99, I agree.
I didn't say that Qur'an leads to the endorsement of the Sunna of Muhammad. I said traditional islam, i.e. sunnism and shiism, believe it does. (I'm a former sunni, I know that).

Peace Anoushirvan

I am also former Sunni, your criticism of the methodology of
translators, scholars and clerics is well founded, however I
think your conveyance is a difficult task from a position that
may cause the reader to repulse because it comes across
like you are criticizing the word of God even though you are
critiquing the translators, scholars and clerics!

This approach is easier for me, i.e., When the translators say..........
here is what the Quran is actually saying.............

handshake

peace

imrankhawaja

how funny it is ... rotfl rotfl yay yay rotfl rotfl

at first (question regarding science) people bring in their discussion for mocking God or quran..

in the end they say why are you adjusting quran with science..? rotfl ok once this elektro

why you ask a question regarding science.. ?

quran dnt need to prove itself with the help of science..
since you believe in science blindly so thats why we provide you things that talk about discoveries of science within last 200 years...

80% of the statements of quran are 100% correct
20% are neither correct nor wrong (due to weak human knowledge)

this 80% include not only science, but also prophecies , challenges , cause and effect examples..

POINT to ponder.. this verse give two things in one go.. lackness of water and abundance of water... with scientific discovery

it seems author intelligence is at perfectly supreme stage while delievering these verses as he already know some people gona claim things about God what they really dnt know..

2439 As for those who reject, their works are like a mirage in the desert. A thirsty person thinks it is water, until he reaches it, he finds it is nothing; and he finds God there and He pays him his due, and God is swift in judgment.

2440 Or like the darkness out in a deep ocean in the midst of violent waves, with waves upon waves and dark clouds. Darkness upon darkness, if he brings out his own hand, he could barely see it. For whomever God does not make a light, he will have no light.

interestingly author is actually telling about disbelievers and topic has nothing to do with science, but when he give the parables that belong to this world what we can test his wordings are more than excellence..

recently with the help of modern technology scientists find out there is no light in deep oceans... wow

this verse also advise for the one who is lightless by God and he will have no light whatsoever you bring infront of him..

Novice

This is exactly what I was trying to explain to you and Novice since a few messages, but it looks like you are misreading me.
You are depending on science, here geology, to understand Qur'an.
This is flawed of course, since science is evolving.

Quran is a book of guidance. It guides us how to spend our lives in this life. When there are some references that can be understood with any field of knowledge what is wrong with that. With changing level of knowledge if understanding of some verses changes that does not change anything about the guidance given in the Quran.

So this argument that Qur'an is superior to science because it stays the same is flawed.

You keep misreading me and skip some parts of what I wrote.
I wrote "If you are dependant on science to increase your level of knowledge in order to understand Qur'an, then Qur'an is not clear at all".

I don't think we need science to understand muhkamat which are the guidance to spend this life.

Let's face it you should be able to understand Qur'an without having to study geology.
If you need to study what is isostatic balance to understand some verses in Qur'an then Qur'an is not clear for you. Don't try to hide yourself behind hypothetical translation flaws.

Anyone can understand the guidance as per one's capacity without studying geology.

And in my understanding, most of Qur'an is pretty clear, provided you let it explains what it has to say.

There are mutashabihat in the Quran and their meanings will be different for different people at different times. As far as the guidance is concerned it remains same.

There are few key words for which correct meaning has indeed been lost Rabb, salat, zakah, sujud, islam, iman...If you don't understand them correctly, then you don't understand Qur'an.

Agreed.

Please give me a single scientific discovery that was done by a careful reading of Qur'an.
I know none of them.

Once again it is a book of guidance and it conveys the guidance perfectly. Scientific discoveries are human efforts to understand their surroundings.

On the contrary, you keep running after science to explain you how mountains were created in order to adjust your understanding of Qur'an.

We study science to satisfy our curiosity about the things around us and not to adjust the guidance in the Quran.

Peace

MaryK

Hey guys, could someone explain me this verse pleease, cos i dont quite get it
923
Believers, do not take your fathers and your brothers for your allies if they choose unbelief in preference to belief. Whosoever of you takes them as allies those are wrong-doers.

Noon_waalqalami

Hey guys, could someone explain me this verse pleease, cos i dont quite get it
923
Believers, do not take your fathers and your brothers for your allies if they choose unbelief in preference to belief. Whosoever of you takes them as allies those are wrong-doers.

Peace, it's about taking sides especially during conflict; family means nothing when they are in the wrong.

923 O you the ones believes ye of not take ye of fathers yours and brethren yours allies if prefer they of l-kuf'ra/the disregard over l-mni/the faith/trust and who makes allies them among you so those themselves the wrongdoing 924 say if be fathers yours and sons/children yours and brethren yours and spouses yours and relatives yours and wealth that have acquired ye of and commerce thou fearing decline its and housing thou content with ye it dearer to you from/besides the god and messenger his wajihdin/and striving in path his so wait ye of until brings the god by directive his and the god not guided the folk the disobedient

Thought the mountains issue was resolved; there is only one correct reading that makes sense?

anna/that
an/lest
inna/indeed
in/not
in/if

1615 and cast in the land rawsiya/firm peaks anna/that shake with you and rivers of and paths of that may you guided being

2130 do they not see the ones disregard they of anna/that the heavens and the land be dual sewn of so ripped we them dual and made we of from the water each thing live then so not believing
2131 and made we of in the land rawsiya/firm peaks anna/that shake with them and made we of therein wide/ravine of paths of perhaps they guided being

3110 creation of the heavens in other than/without columns thou seeing it and cast in the land rawsiya/firm peaks anna/that shake with you and dispersed therein from each creature and descends we of from the heaven/sky water so grew we of therein from each spouse/pair noble

https//s17.postimg.org/9od37ez0f/MA_VI_165_Quran_ch21v30-43.jpg

ajzhyder

https//topicsfromquran.wordpress.com/2017/03/06/movement-of-mountains/

The above links gives information about Rocks inside the Earth Crust under tremendous pressure and heat are in semi liquid form and slowly move.
This is most probably something referenced in Al-Kitab in Ayat no. 2788.

Mazhar

Contents

Mountains - Anchors were inserted in the Earth;
Mountains are not statically fixed, they move.
Purpose of insertion of anchors in the Earth
Mountains have streaks/stripes of various hues;
Ranges of mountains cannot be crossed over walking longitudinally;
Mountains will be crumbled to dust particles on the Last Day.

We are studying about Man and the Universe - Why is the Universe the way it is. The Mountains are an important element of our Universe. Now we will study the information mentioned about mountains in the Grand Qur?n. The most striking information is that the word "creation" is not used for the mountains with reference to the creation of our Universe. Instead verb denoting "inserting, rendering" is used

-----It is thus evident that like dark matter, white light, and water anchors/rocks/or tectonic plates are the matter imported from somewhere else into our universe during its making.

It is the most interesting information about which we are still not aware and sure in the 21st century about the formation of plate tectonics and formation of rocks/mountains. However, general belief is that different set of processes that shaped the surface of Earth started after quite sometime the Earth was in existence.

http//haqeeqat.pk/Mountains.htm