What Constitutes a Muslim?
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Salaam Elena,
It's true what Br Jaxal is saying, there are muslims who pray to Muhammad but they don't admit it.
I can take some examples, in their daily 5 times salat they always greet the prophet even if it is GOD they alone should greet.
And some muslims are celebrating the birthday of the prophet and there they use to sing hymns to the prophet and it goes like this I guess.
Sallalahu alaihi wa salaam sallalahu wa alaihi Muhammad
Peace
Sis Majidah -
Salaam Majiidah
The Bible have been so manipulated so I'm afraid that all is hearsays or the most of it is.
Well u have the "Al-Furqon" (The Criterion) now... which has been prophesied in Isaiah 2911-12 as the "book with seal". U can read the bible and easily detect which part/verses are the truth, and which are from the serpent's.
As Peter said
"They (verses on the scriptures) do not lead astray, but convict and bring to light the evil disposition against God which lurks like a serpent in each one. For the Scriptures lie before each one like many divers types. Each one, then, has his own disposition like wax."It's true what Br Jaxal is saying, there are muslims who pray to Muhammad but they don't admit it.
I'm starting to grasp why prophet Muhammad add an extra sentence to the 'proclamation of faith' (Jews had The Shema Deu 64)
The 'original' shahada might be somewhat like this
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Laa Illaha Illa Allah - There's no God (Illah) but The God (Allah)
U can find similar verse in Deu 57 3212, 3239 -
Muhammad Rasullullah Wa Abduhu - Muhammad (was no more than) Allah's messenger and servant.
(I use this kind of shahadah in my shalat)
I think the second sentence was 'made' / commanded by prophet Muhammad to make it clear and certain that
"I (Muhammad) am 100% human being, not God, Semi-God nor Divine or intercessor for any of u in front of Allah, do not idolize nor worship me, and please pray and worship directly to Allah only"The concept of "intercession to God" not only contradict the Quran, it also contradict the Bible
Deu 57 Thou shalt have none other gods before My face.
Praying in Judaism is considered as "standing / speaking in front/before His face".And praising to other than 'The He' is also forbidden
Isa 428 I am the LORD(YHVH), that is My name; and My glory will I not give to another, neither My praise to graven images.
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Salaam Br Jafar,
I didn't say that everything in the Bible were hearsays but when I compare the Bible with Al-Quran i get the feeling it is a tale because there are so many persons addressed and long stories of what people said and did, not at all like Al-Quran as I see as a more respected Scripture already from the first time I read in it.
My shahada if I really must call it a shahada it goes only LA ILA HA IL ALLAH.
Why must mention others beside Allah!?
Peace
Sis Majidah -
My shahada if I really must call it a shahada it goes only LA ILA HA IL ALLAH.
Why do you mean by shahada and why do you say it?
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Salaam,
Well a shahada is some kind of witness that you have faith in God.
But as I said I don't think this is something you have to practise.
The only witness you need is God.
Peace
Sis Majidah -
Salaamun alaikum,
Majidah is rightWell a shahada is some kind of witness that you have faith in God.
But as I said I don't think this is something you have to practise.
The only witness you need is God.
Al-Quraan says Allah bears witness that there is no god except him, as do the malaika and THOSE WITH KNOWLEDGE....(3/18 )
So it seems that we don't need to SAY shahada at all, as long as we have the right knowledge (al-ilm) , we'll beat witness that Allah is one.
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peace,
as far as I can understand "Muslim" is just an arabic word which means "submitter" in english. what matters most is to what we are becoming "muslim/submitter" to.
Its just like saying " I am a believer"
BUT
Believer to what ???
In the same way...we are muslim to what ??
I think just by saying..I am a muslim doesnt mean anything specific.
peace
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What Constitutes a Muslim?
Here is a list for discussion on what you may think constitutes a Muslim
- Believing in and upholding the commands of 6151-153.
- Believing in and upholding all the social and legal laws of the Quran as per 37.
- Believing that the traditional interpretations and rituals must be followed.
- Believing in the Quran's text (word for word, verse for verse).
- Believing that messengers will come after Mohammed.
- Believing in the number 19 as a sign of the Quran.
- Believing that 2 verses (128&129) must be removed from the Quran.
Well, a muslim is a state of mind and is nothing that one can achieve by believing in things and thereby become in a mental state. Nowhere in the qur'aan is the word "muslim" mentioned other than presented as itself, explaining itself. There is no implacation that there would be a sense to it other than "in peace " or that the use of muslim is exclusivly revolving around the theology of the arabs and its record in the qur'aan.
Lots of love!
/St?phane -
In simple words, a Muslim is one who declares that ?there is no God but Allah, and Muhammad is the messenger of Allah?. This automatically gives a social passport and acceptance to the individual by the rest of the Islamic mobs. It seems that this strategy (foot in the door) perfectly worked among the Bedouin. In away it reflects human submission to the will of one without rationalising or justifying their authority.
If we look deeply, we can easily see that such submissive slogans worked and played crucial rolls in mob psychology. For instance, it?s natural that most human have a need for religiosity in most societies. (If there ever was a God, as it is introduced in the Semitic literature, which appeared from the clouds, I am sure even an extreme atheist will submit to his/her rules.) But this is just a catch 22 used by the Semitic dogma. It needs such slogans to reinforce the submissive behaviour upon the individual and it has two purposes. First, it arouses our religiosity needs in us by introducing God as the ultimate truth and power. This is quite ok as all humans have a need to submit to a higher being. But the real catch is the acceptance and adherences to of the middleman or in this case the Semitic prophets (in away a foot in the door stragety is used!).
In the case of Islam, it is quite obvious that all the other Semitic prophets are considered at the lower end of the ladder but Muhammad is the last and best and that?s why it?s absolutely necessary for any one to declare his or her kalima in the first instance to be considered a Muslim (so he or she is Islamically shaped and framed by way of social pressure).
The rest of the Semitic dogma is often followed by a mix bag of goodies, bigotry, ambiguity and common knowledge that all knew many years prior to Islam, i.e how clouds appears, or driven by the wind, or that rain drops from the sky, or that everything is found in pairs, etc..This was all known to man ever since man stood and pondered about it. Even some animals can sense when it rains and thus take shelter under trees or in caves.
So at the end of the day the zillion dollar question still remains. ?What constitutes a Muslim, Christian or Jew?? Well, in this case, your guess is just as good as mine! You don?t have to be a rocket scientist to figure it out! All we need is a free and rational mind to discover the truth and thus God.
Peace
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In simple words, a Muslim is one who declares that there is no God but Allah, and Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. This automatically gives a social passport and acceptance to the individual by the rest of the Islamic mobs. It seems that this strategy (foot in the door) perfectly worked among the Bedouin. In away it reflects human submission to the will of one without rationalising or justifying their authority.
In simpler words, somebody here didn't do his reading before ranting on this site.
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You mean readings of the mediocre literature?
Clearly thats all thats been read before posting a lengthy diatribe about 'semetic literature' and 'Islam'...
Here is a good link for starters
http//www.free-minds.org/quran/
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You mean readings of the mediocre literature?
Clearly thats all thats been read before posting a lengthy diatribe about 'semetic literature' and 'Islam'...
Here is a good link for starters
http//www.free-minds.org/quran/
I beg to disagree and one shouldn?t underestimate other?s knowledge. The sources you?ve referred me to are readily available with the tip of our fingers online these days. Here is a 50 page of my analysis, in Farsi language, for persian speakers, that is drawn from the experience of Muslims who spend years analysing this literature.
http//www.geocities.com/adil_afghan1/negahijmali
So perhaps some of us have been there and done their home work to draw such conclusions and define the Semitic theology as nothing but ?mediocre literature?.
Peace!
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Adil,
I think what was meant by not doing your reading, is that you didn't read the previous posts on this topic. If you had you'd be contributing a little differently, I believe.
Read some of the back posts about 10-20 posts back. To get a feel for what we've been talking about. It's not what you think.
Godbless,
ProGod -
peace ADIL
In simple words, a Muslim is one who declares that ?there is no God but Allah, and Muhammad is the messenger of Allah?
003.052 When Jesus found Unbelief on their part He said "Who will be My helpers to (the work of) Allah? (arabic Anshar Allah)" Said the disciples "We are Allah's helpers (arabic Anshar Allah) We believe in Allah, and do thou bear witness that we are Muslims.
Does Jesus's disciples / apostles / telmudim declares "Muhammad is the messenger of Allah" ?
it is quite obvious that all the other Semitic prophets are considered at the lower end of the ladder but Muhammad is the last and best
002.136 Say ye "We believe in Allah, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) prophets from their Lord We make no difference between one and another of them And we bow to Allah (in Islam)."
?What constitutes a Muslim, Christian or Jew??
Can 'Nashara' or 'Hoodan' such as Simeon Kefa (Peter), prophet Isaiah, prophet Daniel considered to be a muslim?
As more things to ponder, let me tell u a factual story, at the western tip of Java island in Indonesia lives a seclusive community of 5000 people. They called themselves the "Sunda Wiwitan" community, they believes that
- This life on earth only temporary and there's an eternal life beyond death.
- We all came from "Hyang" and they call death as "Ngahyang" which means "returning to Hyang".
- The Creator of this world ("Hyang") are boundless and encompass all things. (041.054 It is He that doth encompass all things!)
- They share everything with everyone on their community. Thus no land decree and so forth, all land belongs to "Hyang" and are "on loan" status to humankind.
- They only have "judges", no political leader / parties, armies or king. They elect their judges by vote. Thus they managed to have "near zero crime" on their community. (very-very rare incident of stealing, raping, robbery, murder etc..)
- Their "prophet" are someone named "Semar" who according to their legends teach them about "how to live" and "Hyang".
- They circumcised their baby boys on the 8th day.
- Pigs are forbidden to eat.
- They have no books, only tradition / oral sayings of the elders passed down thru generations for approximately 3000 years.
You cannot learn the 'Sunda Wiwitan' community / culture / beliefs thru books because they had none, the only way to learn their culture is to 'live among them' and speak / interact with them.
Is it wise to call them "Non-Muslim" nor "Kafiruun"???
Do they need a 'conversion' to Islam??? (or any other 'religion' than their own)022.067 To every People have We appointed rites and ceremonies which they must follow let them not then dispute with thee on the matter, but do thou invite (them) to thy Lord for thou art assuredly on the Right Way.
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Adil,
I think what was meant by not doing your reading, is that you didn't read the previous posts on this topic. If you had you'd be contributing a little differently, I believe.
Read some of the back posts about 10-20 posts back. To get a feel for what we've been talking about. It's not what you think.
Godbless,
ProGodPerhaps you're right. I am new to this forum and I?ll try and tune myself. But savage-carrot pasted a link which took me somewhere else! Glad to see intelligent individuals gather under one umbrella
Thank you
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So perhaps some of us have been there and done their home work to draw such conclusions and define the Semitic theology as nothing but ?mediocre literature?.
Would you consider the quran to be a part of this "mediocre literature" as you call it? I'm curious since you are new and all that...
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Does Jesus's disciples / apostles / telmudim declares "Muhammad is the messenger of Allah" ?
The important point here is not whether that Jesus? disciples/ telmudim or the rest will agree that He was a messenger (leader) or not but the authenticity of the message itself. To date, no one can prove this with certainty. This is the crux of the matter. The rest is nothing but the exhaustion of our intellect by interpreting the psychic products of their (prophets) minds and we often bring it inline with our present day religiosity needs.
This is why I label the lot of them as ?Semitic dogma? because they have borrowed from one another with minor alternations. Whether the latter accepts the former and the former rejects the latter is a matter of degrees. We don?t have to see this in light of theological reasons. Simple logic would tell us that between the grandfather, father and son, one must accept the grandfather?s eyewitness account and not the son?s because the son wasn?t even born when the grandfather was around! Of course such analysis must be subject to different methodological perspectives.
002.136 Say ye "We believe in Allah, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) prophets from their Lord We make no difference between one and another of them And we bow to Allah (in Islam)."
I agree with the sum of your ayah but disagree with the whole. Here is why. As its common with most Quraanic verses, one ayah supercedes another and most of these conflicting ayahs came to humanity within a matter of 23 or so years. One of the earlier version (Makkai ayah) along such lines was more or less multi-religious ?La ikra fee dein? (there is no compulsion in religion) which was favored by the faithful ones at that time. But later on that was superceded when His followers increased to thousands. In essence, Islam is supposed to be the one and only religion for humanity and the rest as null and void. If it was otherwise then there would be no problem. Any saint person could?ve claimed and be considered as an instant prophet!
I hope I have'nt derailed other's discussion.
Peace to u
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As its common with most Quraanic verses, one ayah supercedes another and most of these conflicting ayahs came to humanity within a matter of 23 or so years.
I believe I just found my answer.