Adultery with slaves?
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peace,
Sex is allowed with slaves, whether they have a husband or not, and it goes against the law forbidding adultery. If i m missing something help me please and make me follow the quran again.
Did you read the next verse also?
http//www.misconceptions-about-islam.com/concubines-sex-slaves.htm -
@The Sardar
Q'uran 3355 3355 There is no sin upon them before their fathers, or their sons, or their brothers, or the sons of their brothers, or the sons of their sisters, or their women, or those who are maintained by their oaths. And be aware of God, for God is witness over all things.
This means the wives of the prophet had oaths with men which they could have sex with??
"And married women except those your right hands possess.
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@Wakas Sorry i didnt understand, i guess you re telling me that sex is not allowed with slaves, only marriage. But then what does this mean ?
235 They guard their private parts.
236 Except around their mates, or those whom they have contractual rights, they are free from blame.
Guarding private parts does not include abstaining from sex? because
And the one who guarded her chastity, so We blew into her through Our angel , and We made her and her son a sign for the worlds.
I believe what defines Mary is her virginity and not the fact that she covered her private parts, actually you can do all sort of "not chaste" things to a fully clothed woman
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Ahsanat farjaha,
is what is said about Maryam, but on the other hand,
Hafiza farj in the different persons and times of the verb
is what is understood by guard the private parts or maintain chastity, hey are two different verbs, and systematically for guarding private parts and chastity it is always hafidha farj
Also in 4.24 what you read as married women, in the next aya, dealing exactly with the same subject, that very same word, in arabic "muhsanaat", is translated with a different word or expression every time it appears, which is seeral times, each time translated different. "Muhsanaat" is not married nor any of the other translations, it means a woman with capacity of consent. And you can see tht in sura Nur, where those who accuse the muhsanaat withoyt bringing up four witnesses are punished with 80 lashes. Of course in order for anybody to be inditable, the person must be capable of consent otherwise there is no way to pursue.
You can also see that in 5.5.
Yusuf Ali translationThis day are (all) things good and pure made lawful unto you. The food of the People of the Book is lawful unto you and yours is lawful unto them. (Lawful unto you in marriage) are (not only) chaste women who are believers, but chaste women among the People of the Book, revealed before your time,- when ye give them their due dowers, and desire chastity, not lewdness, nor secret intrigues if any one rejects faith, fruitless is his work, and in the Hereafter he will be in the ranks of those who have lost (all spiritual good). (5)
In Asad's translation
Today, all the good things of life have been made lawful to you. And the food of those who have been vouchsafed revelation aforetime is lawful to you, and your food is lawful to them. And , in wedlock, women from among those who believe , and, in wedlock, women from among those who have been vouchsafed revelation before your time -provided that you give them their dowers, taking them in honest wedlock, not in fornication, nor as secret love-companions. But as for him who rejects belief - in vain will be all his works for in the life to come he shall be among the lost. (5)
As you see, that same word is being translated, to deal with the same question, and even in the same sentence, as diferent things. That obviously cannot be and it is not serious, and it shows en 5.5. Yusuf Ali translates chaste women. ?Can you figure? Is it to be expected that men are advised to marry unchaste women? Or do we expect men at that time or at any other time to prefer unchaste women? On the other hand God says that good women ar for good men, etc. etc. If the ma is chaste he can aspire to a chaste woman otherwise no.
The question is so glaring that Asad in that same aya, as you can see, has chosen to translate merely as "women", unqualified, forget the chaste" or forget anything else. So that is another different translation to pick from, Muhsanaat means women.
Of course what this shows is that translators are completely lost.
The fact is that the interpretation and translation of Qur'an is plagued by prejudices and contrived interpretations that mostly fall upon women and dealings with them and which happen to suit the convenience of the male elites.
I am sorry, Ju5, but you would be ill advised acting on the assumption that translations when they touch women and come up with such gross nonsense are anywhere near the original. It is incredible what has been done with the intepretation of qur'an where even the most plain observation comes up with shocking inconsistencias and lack of the most elemental logic.
Muhsanaat are not married women, nor chaste women nor women. The translation must fit always the text, and not pick first an interpretation and then tranalsate the word.
Salaam
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Peace Ju5 yes you are missing something, it is called
context, you should not come to the conclusion of injustice from Allah. nopeWhen studying Quran Al Kareem one must understand the context
of the revelation, this will help the reader to get the intent of the
author. The Quran came to us to correct what is wrong and to
guide to what is right.Understanding the context of the text one would conclude that Allah
is just and that Allah revealed the Quran to correct our treatment
of women which before had no rights. With this in mind, we read
the Quran knowing that women are to be treated as equals.
So no, she is not property for a man to do as he pleases as per
the context of Quran.handshake
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I was christian before becoming "muslim" and i am now thinking about leaving the quran completely because of this verse
Q'uran 424 "And married women except those your right hands possess. the decree of Allah upon you. And lawful to you are beyond these, that you seek them with your property, desiring chastity, not unlawful sexual intercourse. So for whatever you enjoy from them, give them their due compensation as an obligation. And there is no blame upon you for what you mutually agree to beyond the obligation. Indeed, Allah is ever Knowing and Wise."
Sex is allowed with slaves, whether they have a husband or not, and it goes against the law forbidding adultery. If i m missing something help me please and make me follow the quran again.
Make you follow quran again? Then you have already abandoned the faith
It is pathetic to ask men to help you follow Quran. Only Allah can guide you. It seems you carried some of the falsehood from christianity into your belief, there are no intercessors, we cannot help you believe! We cannot avail you against Allah anything if He wills to lead you astray nor could we prevent you from accepting faith if He wills to guide you.Then leave by all means there is no compulsion. We do not seek the ignorant ones...
Do not seek confirmation and explanation from us we are men like you.How do you threaten us with leaving Quran, as if it were a favor upon the believers if you stayed and believed?
Who would even want a comrade who when is confronted with difficulty turns on his face in despair?By all means you are free to go. If you enter in disbelief then so you will leave.
Quran 37
He (is) the One Who revealed to you the Book, of it (are) Verses absolutely clear - they (are) the foundation (of) the Book, and others (are) allegorical. Then as for those in their hearts (is) perversity - they follow what (is) allegorical of it, seeking discord and seeking its interpretation. And not knows its interpretation except Allah. And those firm in knowledge, they say, "We believe in it. All (is) from our Lord." And not will take heed except men of understanding.Your example is literally in MANY verses of the Quran
Quran 561
And when they come to you they say, "We believe." But certainly they entered with disbelief and they certainly went out with it. And Allah knows best what they were hiding.Quran 2211
And among the mankind (is he) who worships Allah on an edge. And if befalls him good, he is content with it, and if befalls him a trial he turns on his face. He has lost the world and the Hereafter. That (is) the loss clear.Quran 4917
They consider (it) a favor to you that they have accepted Islam. Say, "(Do) not consider a favor on me - your Islam. Nay, Allah has conferred a favor upon you that He has guided you to the faith, if you are truthful.Smells like a troll anyway.
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So you are saying that its all about marriage with slaves/people with "whom they have contractual rights"
but
235 They guard their private parts.
236 Except around their mates, or those whom they have contractual rights, they are free from blame.
states that sex is allowed with those people, and makes a difference between spouses and slaves/people with whom they have contractual rights
Also according to 3355
There is no blame upon women concerning their fathers or their sons or their brothers or their brothers' sons or their sisters' sons or their women or those their right hands possess. And fear Allah . Indeed Allah is ever, over all things, Witness.
the prophet s wives had slaves/people with whom they had contractual rights
am i understanding something wrong??
@HP_TECH if i m posting here its because im a believer in the god of moses who forbade adultery and i cant believe in a book in which god gives a free pass for it, i dont need the quran to believe in god, im just asking for explanation for verses that can make me believe or stop believing in the q'uran
"dont seek explanations we are men like you" then why are you asking for explanations in posts you made earlier? you changed your mind about asking for explanations?
The verses im asking explanations about are NOT allegorical
and im not asking for help so i can make you a favor, im asking for help for myself, and i was counting on kind and compassionate people to show me a truth that i could have missed to be sure im not making a big mistake, but, according to your post, compassion and kindness arent your biggest features
now maybe for you i am dead meat waiting to be burnt forever, God will be the judge
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235 They guard their private parts.
236 Except around their mates, or those whom they have contractual rights, they are free from blame.
states that sex is allowed with those people, and makes a difference between spouses and slaves/people with whom they have contractual rights
Also according to 3355
There is no blame upon women concerning their fathers or their sons or their brothers or their brothers' sons or their sisters' sons or their women or those their right hands possess. And fear Allah . Indeed Allah is ever, over all things, Witness.
the prophet s wives had slaves/people with whom they had contractual rights
am i understanding something wrong??
Peace, no mention of sex or slaves meaning depends on context e.g. if your appendix bursts they may have to stick a tube in your private part and a nurse/doctor male/female " or what malakat/vouchsafe yamnuka/right hand your" may have to view and/or consult or help in an emergency.
2431 and say to the believers (f/p) lower they from vision/gaze theirs (f/p) and guarded they (f/p) furjahunna/intimate parts theirs (f/p) and not display adornment theirs (f/p) except what apparent therein and to striked they (f/p) with cover theirs on/over bosoms theirs and not display adornment theirs (f/p) except to husbands theirs
or forefathers (paternal/maternal) theirs
or fathers husbands theirs
or sons theirs (f/p)
or sons husbands theirs
or brothers theirs
or sons brothers theirs
or sons sisters theirs (f/p)
or nisahinna/womenfolk (female relatives) theirs
or what malakat/vouchsafe aymnuhunna/right hands theirs (f/p)
or the attendants/walkers behind other than possessors the desire from the menfolk
or the young the ones not cognizant they of on private the womenfolk
and not striked they (f/p) with feet theirs to know what conceal from adornment theirs (f/p)
and turn ye of to the god all of you the believing that may you succeeding2461 ... or what malaktum/vouchsafe you keys its (i.e. given permission/entrusted you]
7029 and the ones themselves to intimate parts theirs guardians being
7030 except on spouses theirs or what malakat/vouchsafe aymnuhum/right hands theirs so surely they other than blameworthy3355... and fear/be mindful (f/p) the god indeed the god be on each thing witness of
https//s18.postimg.org/enexm15ax/MA_VI_165_Quran_ch33v53-62.jpg
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So you are saying that its all about marriage with slaves/people with "whom they have contractual rights"
but
235 They guard their private parts.
236 Except around their mates, or those whom they have contractual rights, they are free from blame.
states that sex is allowed with those people, and makes a difference between spouses and slaves/people with whom they have contractual rights
Also according to 3355
There is no blame upon women concerning their fathers or their sons or their brothers or their brothers' sons or their sisters' sons or their women or those their right hands possess. And fear Allah . Indeed Allah is ever, over all things, Witness.
the prophet s wives had slaves/people with whom they had contractual rights
am i understanding something wrong??
Mullahs changed the word to mean slaves. It would be nice if someone can provide the verse number in which Allah himself explained the meaning of right hand possess.I see that only few translations mentioned it in that same verse. Monotheist group
Except around their mates, or those who are maintained by their oaths, they are free from blame.236
Mates= wives
Right hand possesses= doctors, investigators, etc.See it like this We all get sick and sometimes need to reveal our private parts to doctors. In some situations, even family members get into that list.
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@HP_TECH if i m posting here its because im a believer in the god of moses who forbade adultery and i cant believe in a book in which god gives a free pass for it, i dont need the quran to believe in god, im just asking for explanation for verses that can make me believe or stop believing in the q'uran
"dont seek explanations we are men like you" then why are you asking for explanations in posts you made earlier? you changed your mind about asking for explanations?
The verses im asking explanations about are NOT allegorical
and im not asking for help so i can make you a favor, im asking for help for myself, and i was counting on kind and compassionate people to show me a truth that i could have missed to be sure im not making a big mistake, but, according to your post, compassion and kindness arent your biggest features
now maybe for you i am dead meat waiting to be burnt forever, God will be the judge
Reserve your excuses, weak fallacious arguments and pretentiousness for someone else. If you are burnt meat then it came from your mouth, as your illogical conclusion of leaving quran based on one verse came from your mouth. You exposed your pathetic self and have the audacity to call yourself a believer. You claim the quran excuses adultery whilst you know it is a slander and grave thing. Rather the Tanakh and bible are full of contradictions from stoning, to mutilating the foreskins of penises to slander of prophets and the list goes on.
You are most liekly a christian trying to refute the truth by falsehood. But Allah establishes the truth by His Words.
Furthermore from a philosophical stand point you refuse to comprehend the clear evidences provided to you.
From an intellectual standpoint it is clear you have not fully read the quran. That is evident by your attempt to cite verses out of context as pointed out by many.
We can see through your weak efforts, some of us are more lenient than others.
I personally do not tolerate bs
Quran4829
Muhammad (is the) Messenger (of) Allah, and those who (are) with him (are) firm against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves. You see them bowing and prostrating, seeking Bounty from Allah and pleasure. Their mark (is) on their faces from (the) trace (of) the prostration. That (is) their similitude in the torarh And their similitude in the injeel (is) like a seed (which) sends forth its shoot then strengthens it, then it becomes thick and it stands upon its stem delighting the sowers that He (may) enrage by them the disbelievers. Allah has promised those who believe and do righteous deeds among them, forgiveness and a reward great. -
why would it mean doctor? so 3350 means the prophet can marry doctors? are you saying lies on purpose? whats the next translation Noon waalqalami and Reel? it will mean space ship next time ? dinosaur?
@HP_TECH there has been no evidence
the claims were
1- sex is allowed with slaves only if you are married to them BUT 235-6 makes the difference between spouses and slaves/people with contractual rights
2-slaves means people with contractual rights with the muslim, a kind of "marriage", but 3355 shows that the wives of the prophet had slaves (people with whom they have contractual rights) themselves, they were polygamous according to you??
3-slave means doctor = no comment
also you re assuming without proof that i didnt read the quran, which is false, saying things you do not know is a sin?
if anyone has evidence according to the Q'uran that extra marital slave sex isnt allowed, please share
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No offence intended but your posts do come across as a bit odd and rash - which is suspicious of troll behaviour, but I will give you the benefit of the doubt and ask some questions which will help clarify if that is the case.
- what do you mean by "slave"?
- what Arabic term you are referring to for "slave"?
Note that you will have to reconcile the above two in terms of forming a Quranic understanding, i.e. I take the Arabic term X to mean "slave" and my definition of slave is backed up by Quran usage of X.
If you are genuine, the above should be simple to answer because it forms the basics of your question, showing you have at least thought about and read about the basics.
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why would it mean doctor? so 3350 means the prophet can marry doctors? are you saying lies on purpose? whats the next translation Noon waalqalami and Reel? it will mean space ship next time ? dinosaur?
@HP_TECH there has been no evidence
the claims were
1- sex is allowed with slaves only if you are married to them BUT 2350 makes the difference between spouses and slaves/people with contractual rights
2-slaves means people with contractual rights with the muslim, a kind of "marriage", but 3355 shows that the wives of the prophet had slaves (people with whom they have contractual rights) themselves, they were polygamous according to you??
3-slave means doctor = no comment
also you re assuming without proof that i didnt read the quran, which is false, saying things you do not know is a sin?
if anyone has evidence according to the Q'uran that extra marital slave sex isnt allowed, please share
Peace,
I dont really know why you relate ma malakat yaminuka or any other cases of it to "slaves". Actually i dont get whay it is being related to human beings!
FM3350 ...wives to whom you have given their dowries and the one (?) committed to you by your oath, as granted to you by God
I dont get this girl grating thing... confused
Other translations
... Wives to whom you have given their dowries and whom (?) your right hands posses from whom (?) Allah has given you.
I dont understand this God giving people to people thing... giveup
So why dont u consider the relative "ma" as not regarding human beings?
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why would it mean doctor? so 3350 means the prophet can marry doctors? are you saying lies on purpose?
Ugh, looks like someone got himself exposed.
But wait, why can't prophet marry a doctor?
In your next post refute us in details using Quran as the reference to prove you and your 9th century trump are correct while we are the liars.
You are most liekly a christian trying to refute the truth by falsehood. But Allah establishes the truth by His Words.
Furthermore from a philosophical stand point you refuse to comprehend the clear evidences provided to you.
From an intellectual standpoint it is clear you have not fully read the quran. That is evident by your attempt to cite verses out of context as pointed out by many.
That's how it seems. My bad, I didn't read his previous posts of this thread.
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@Aries 3352 No women are lawful to you beyond this, nor that you change them for other wives, even though you may be attracted by their beauty, except those to whom you are committed by oaths. God is watchful over all things.
"except those to whom you are committed by oaths" those aren t people?
@Wakas 1- 425 And as for those of you who, owing to cir?cumstances, are not in a position29 to marry free believing women, believing maidens from among those whom you rightfully possess.30 And God knows all about your faith; each one of you is an issue of the other.31 Marry them, then, with their people's leave, and give them their dowers in an equitable manner - they being women who give themselves in honest wedlock, not in fornication, nor as secret love-companions.32 And when they are married, and thereafter become guilty of immoral conduct, they shall be liable to half the penalty to which free married women are liable.33 This to those of you who fear lest they stumble into evil.34 But it is for your own good to persevere in patience and God is much-forgiving, a dispenser of grace. (asad translation, your favorite according to a post of yours)
it is written "slave"
now what slave means noun 1 .a person who is the property of and wholly subject to another; a bond servant. (http//www.dictionary.com/browse/slave)now if they are indeed slaves or not doesnt even matter to me
the prophet s wives had ones (3355)
sex seems to be allowed with them (235-6)
the punishment of adultery for them is half the one of free women (but is the punishment of men half of the free men? since the prophets wives had ones (3355) they must have been men
you CAN marry them, or NOT, but 235 doesnt make the difference
@Reel why would God state than the prophet can marry doctors?
going to edit earlier post, its 235-6 not 2350
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peace all and eid mubarak to all brothers and sisters
actually in reply to my reckless first post i may add clearly
when somebody wills to point out something from something its always very popular how people twist the meanings by their wishful thinkingcoming back to topic
as far i understand two catagories are there
one is wife/spouse
another one is girlfriend/partner which also considered as (rightfully yours)God knows best as per 37
slavery is always discouraged by system of God even pharaoh also advised by God to free the children of israel and the name of prophet adopted son(zaid) is mention in scripture who beleived to b slave as per history so we can see slavery is always discouraged by true God
God bless you all
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@imrankhawaja 3355 the prophets wives had ones, so i dont think it can be "partners"
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partners and wives if both are legal infront of God system than it shouldnt be any problem logically
coz all those prophets who came when there was not a trend of marriage in history at that time their partners play the exact roles compared to later socities
example is in uncivilised world you see people dnt make wives but they. make partners from which they get kids too so they considered as rightfully yours
hope you got it now
