Quran Classification
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Peace Abdun Nur.
I certainly agree with this,quoteA belivever has nothing to do with any religion
Also I like what you say here,quote
a believer is in action not in self delusion. a believer would show all around them a way to reason and so both be a believer and encourage the methods and practice of belief for others, a believer is in truth with reasoning, with passion and motive, give them cause to act, too love, to establish and show them how to determine reasoned conclusion, so they can achieve the best way to live in equitable balance themselves.I would like to add that a believer should also show the good conduct and good deeds .
However ,A believer can attain different/higher grades with total submission and loyalty to GOD Alone. The connection with the Creator is the most important part to allow your spiritual self to grow into a complete believer . GOD s help and support is necessary.
My understanding.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace Amra,All.
This is a bit controversial,challenging but nevertheless needs some pondering.
Religions,misconceptions, what we are going through as humans since our creation is playing a part of where we are now,like now is playing a part of where we should aspire/ reach to in future.
It is no coincidence GOD has been sending us messengers,and it is no coincidence the majority stayed confused are still confused of "what is GOD s message"!!!!
Who knows how far into the future humans will start to grasp the "true message" that GOD,in his wisdom and knowledge kept sending and is patiently waiting for it to bear fruit/outcome/ with the majority (surah 110).We all assume that the messengers grasped the whole concept of the message and got things right? They tried their best,reached where GOD expected them to be ,but still more work needed to be done by the following generations to reach further and improve.
For example Jesus said to his disciples that he had many things to say to them but they cannot grasp them now (attitudes/mentality/knowledge of that era). Mohammed said that his people are going to abandon Qoran altogether. i.e completely change the message into another different religion.
What are we making of Qoran now? Yes still confused .
There is a new era of a generation that has a different mean( technology/internet/research...) and the "truth" will slowly be investigated. The "message " will take another direction.
We know now that Traditional Islam has turned GOD s message upside down."Uubudu Allah" has become " meaningless rituals/sayings/superstition"and "works/conduct/justice/reasoning..." have taken a back seat.
Only now we are starting to ponder Qoran to realise "Uubudu Allah" has nothing to do with rites,it means (my opinion) follow "GOD"-Alhaqq_which is GOD s deen(Kanoon) of justice,love,good conduct/deeds...all the good traits so that we attain "taqwa"" Laallakum tattakoon". i.e so that humans live together in unison (peace,love,compassion,using their reasoning/knowledge for the good...) .
The opposite of" Uubudu Allah" is "Taghut" (Corruption,hate,oppression,wars...etc)."Uubudu Allah" has nothing to do with GOD s needs. GOD is saying to us "Follow me so that you succeed" the opposite is follow"Taghut" (oppression,unjustice,corruption ...all the bad traits)which leads to our sufferring/demise/destruction. i.e nothing to do with GOD s needs at all. GOD does not need anything.
I will ,GOD willing say more in future. For now here are verses that need a lot of pondering
1636
We have sent a messenger to every community, saying, "You shall"Uubudu"God, and avoid "Taghut"." Subsequently, some were guided by God, while others were committed to straying. Roam the earth and note the consequences for the rejectors.We did not send any messenger before you except with the inspiration ?There is no god except Me; you shall " Uubudu" me
GOD bless you all.
Peace. -
Peace Good logic,
there is no god (the foundation of Islam), and never couod be there is something far more interesting, a belief in the delusion of a god is again a self delusion, seeking a hierarchical master to remove the reasoning and truth of the self, instead of seeking to master reasoning and so the self, we are here to establish what we are given freely to begin with, the state of innocence.
Innocence is innate at birth and lost through nurture. innocence is established through vitues so moral conduct. Moral conduct is not established in, 'not doing immoral acts', but in actively doing moral ones. So not to murder is not moral, it is dispassionate, a non-action, it is nothing. To actively seek out a murderer and make them accountable for their wrong, establishing relief for both the victim and the wrong doer, is then a moral act.
Understanding what is moral makes it easier to see what is then, immoral. The soulless (psychopathic nature) have an immoral nature, which is a dichotomy to that of a soul, which has innately, a moral centre. The innate morals are known as virtues, each loving soul is created with these virtues, which forms innocence, but most choose to reject or suppress their true nature as they grow older for whatever reason.
I can explain what exists that is not a god and what virtues are if you want to know.
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Peace Abdun Nur.
Thank you for your post.
I am familiar with your views,efforts and good intentions.
However I happen to be certain there is a Creator. And that this Creator has sent us a message.For now,we have to agree to disagree.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace Good logic,
"certain" is an interesting term, if you're indeed certain, please provide your evidence for a "god" and the reasoning to apply such evidence to a conclusion of utter certainty of a "god"?
To claim certainty means you have both evidence and reasoning to apply such evidence to an irrefutable conclusion, so denoting certainty.
Or are you simply stating you have an unfounded dogmatic indoctrination, that requires neither evidence or reasoning to establish "certainty"?
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Peace Abdun Nur.
I mean I am certain for me. I have my solid proof for now.I am taking about my belief and my proof that Qoran is the message from my Creator.
Hope that clarifies for you. I am not claiming to have "proof/evidence" for others.
Like you have your own evidence for what you claim. At least I hope you do.
At the moment that is where my understanding is.
Although it may seem dogmatic for others, I have to be honest with myself and only change it to "a better understanding" according to what I can grasp as "better" from other reasonings.GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace Good logic,
please share your "solid proof", and your "proof" the Qur'an is a message from "your" god?
If you wish to understand reality, then you have to examine the fundamental nature of that reality, these foundations are patterns that repeat, through only considering these patterns of nature the underlying reality of consciousness can be determined, and so a true grasp of reality.
My Ontological Perspective
Imagine a infinite pure consciousness pouring from nothingness endlessly, within a singular, infinitely repeating, spinning moment, without any substance, no material existence of any kind, no quantity of space or energy; not an entity because only the consciousness exists, and to be an entity would require something other, something distinct from something else, so consciousness is always an ?entirety?.
The only product of this single consciousness of potential is thought, manifesting infinite perceptual realities, so vast, so dense in thought, so magnificent we cannot begin to conceive such wonders at our present lower fractal states. But the totality would not fully experience the infinite thoughts intimately without its fractal nature.
Fractal consciousness allows each fractal, free will, they can evolve from new state to new higher fractal state, and have the same attributes, the same aspects as the entirety of consciousness, because they are the entirety, being an infinite drop within the infinite ocean of consciousness, indivisible, so cannot be distinct, always only the one consciousness can exist, the fractal is the undivided, an integral fractal form, building the substantive structures.
What each fractal form develops becomes the most abundant within their individual expression of consciousness; they can build imagination or neglect it. We as fractals of consciousness are here to experience, and through our experiences, the totality of the ocean of consciousness experiences, shares, interacts and is synchronous to our actions; we are created for adventure, for the expression of love and joy, because there is no ?other? of consequence, to hate, to abuse, to exploit, we are ?one? infinitely expressed. We?re one mind as dichotomic thought both as one in nothingness of inner contemplation, and as one in shared thought of external perception.
There is no hierarchy only diversity; hierarchy is the tree of death, anarchic diversity the tree of life. The patterns of reality support fully this understanding, for example the fundamental pattern of dichotomy repeats throughout our shared perceptual reality, this expresses as 99.999r% one sided dichotomous natures, in considering this pattern as a foundation it would be a dichotomy of nothingness and everything, these patterns are the building blocks of reality and as such must be the underlying nature of that reality.
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Peace Abdun Nur.
Mine is a simple Mathematics check I have done with Qoran
http//submission.org/App1.html
I am familiar with "only the consciousness exists "/ your ideas,but I am struggling to fit it with the Qoranic message/ideas.
So I pass for the moment.Thanks for the information brother.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace Good logic,
present your mathematical proof, proof you are claiming that refutes the fundamental structures of reality, thats some maths, reality after all is reality, the Qur'an is a guide, one it would be very likely a group of people in the past created through the use of the trivium to determine the true nature of humanities community model, they wrote this as a guide, an anarchic way of life, so removing all sovereigns, all riba, all conflict, establishing virtue as the basis of interactions, for 200 years this spread across the earth without any compulsion, then the old wealthy parasitical sovereign psychopathic families funded the creation of hadith to destroy this guide through transforming its understanding, from a guide to community, into a religion of worship and dogmatic conformity, corrupting the very text and language of the Arabic over time, and slowly the sovereigns retook control through the reestablishment of hierarchical oppression.
Now people proudly boast of their piousness in this false religion, they worship old buildings in the desert and pray to a self delusion, while simultaneously having almost no virtue at all, and not only championing riba at every turn but loving it with a passion, they call themselves Muslim and use violence against all who dare to question their right to inflict there religious insanity.
I?ll ask you why is riba not trade, that simple question cannot be answered by the religious riba worshippers of Islam, they would even violently refute the truth if they dared to consider it.
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Peace Abdun Nor.
I agree with you Traditional Islam is a false religion.Please read my posts to know I differ greatly with their scholars and ways.
For me,Qoran is yet to be interpreted correctly in many areas of its truth.
Just the same as one perseveres in life,one has to persevere in the study of Qoran.
My task is ongoing brother.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace HP_TECH
Anyone can be any person,any race and any religion.
Once that "GOD conscious" person develops the relationship with His creator, it is up to GOD to inspire/work with that person according to GOD s knowledge of the person s convictions.
GOD said people of the torah can judge by what GOD has revealed in it,people of the Injeel can do the same. etc...
As far as we are concerned,anyone, yes anyone who is peaceful and has no issues with us ,we cannot say that person is not a believer. GOD is their judge only. "Innama alaika albalagh wa alaina alhisab"-you deliver the warning, GOD holds them to account-.
Your argument about people is premature and "agressive". GOD s mercy and forgiveness is open to all the peaceful and good people until the moment they die. Their judgement is with GOD.
Only those who oppress you/fight you/force you to leave GOD s Islam are the ones that GOD has clearly said to us you can defend yourself against. Like for like.
Call to GOD,that is the best warning we can give,GOD takes care of His people. GOD has left the judgement of His deen to a predetermined day, not to be enforced by anyone in this life.
You work on yourself, I work on myself...etc.
Hope you understand me now.
If not, you are still my brother and we agree to disagree amicably.
May the Lord guide us both.
GOD bless you.
Peace.Great post!
I think the confusion is apparent because we forget that there is
only one creator and one deen. Therefore the question becomes
"What is the one deen"? The deen no matter what the religion one
practices is "one". Where religions coalesce/agree you will find the
"one" deen, for instance I would say that there is no religion where
stealing is permissible. All religions condemn adultery. Rituals are
universal. Prayer or some sort of reflection is normal. Sacred places
can be found throughout mankind. Charity, good behavior are
encouraged. Backbiting, lies of consequence, killing innocents are
discouraged and many more similarities between faiths make up the deen.peace
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Peace Hawk.
Nice to hear from you.
I am leaning on the following verses that explain your question , ""What is the one deen"?3030
Therefore, you shall devote yourself to the "Deen Al-Quaiim"( The One Religion?). Such is the natural instinct placed into the people by God. Such creation of God will never change. This is the perfect religion, but most people do not know.3031
You shall submit to Him, reverence Him, observe Salat, and - whatever you do - do not ever fall into idol worship.3032
(Do not fall in idol worship,) like those who divide their religion into sects; each party rejoicing with what they have.If "Yabudoon" is the opposite of "Taghut",then I am deducing the following?
So by instinct we can know wrong from right,Al-haqq from Albaatil, therefore we can choose GOD s one religion or Taghut religions( Too many of them). GOD is Al-Haqq according to Qoran."Uubudu Allah" has nothing to do with rites,it means (my opinion) follow "GOD"-Alhaqq_which is GOD s deen(Kanoon) of justice,love,good conduct/deeds...all the good traits so that we attain "taqwa"" Laallakum tattakoon". i.e so that humans live together in unison (peace,love,compassion,using their reasoning/knowledge for the good...) .
The opposite of" Uubudu Allah" is "Taghut" (Corruption,hate,oppression,wars...etc)."Uubudu Allah" has nothing to do with GOD s needs. GOD is saying to us "Follow me so that you succeed" the opposite is follow"Taghut" (oppression,unjustice,corruption ...all the bad traits)which leads to our sufferring/demise/destruction. i.e nothing to do with GOD s needs at all. GOD does not need anything.
It makes sense GOD s only religion is the best choice for us humans.
Anyway,There is more to ponder on Qoran. GOD willing I will post more here in future on this subject.
GOD bless you.
Peace -
Peace,
and now i'm remembering why i stopped posting on this forum, religion drives all reason from the soul and makes babbling fools, sad but true, I'll leave you to your insane religious rantings, sorry to disturb the still pond of your stagnant thinking, still no reasoning souls on here aadly. Peace and goodbye.
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Peace,
and now i'm remembering why i stopped posting on this forum, religion drives all reason from the soul and makes babbling fools, sad but true, I'll leave you to your insane religious rantings, sorry to disturb the still pond of your stagnant thinking, still no reasoning souls on here aadly. Peace and goodbye.
Hah what an ignorant hypocrite GOH
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and now i'm remembering why i stopped posting on this forum, religion drives all reason from the soul and makes babbling fools, sad but true, I'll leave you to your insane religious rantings, sorry to disturb the still pond of your stagnant thinking, still no reasoning souls on here aadly. Peace and goodbye.
@Abdun Nur please don't be harsh on others who do not perceive things as you do. Don't belittle them. It's sad to me because I know Good Logic is a good person.
If you want to discuss certain things you can go to MoF's forum, where you can also find me as 'cerulean'.
Having said what you said, I'm quite interested to hear what you have to say.
Goodbye. -
Peace brothers and sisters.
To all those who left,those who are still here , those who will come ,and to all the peaceful humans out there
Each of you chooses the direction to follow; you shall race towards righteousness. Wherever you may be, God will summon you all. God is Omnipotent.
.... You shall compete in righteousness. To God is your final destiny - all of you - then He will inform you of everything you had disputed.Disagreements,religions,labels...etc should be " demolished" as barriers between people.
I have hope that Qoran will be our tool to do that .
I love you all and pray that GOD will bless you all.
Peace. -
Peace Amra94.
GOD works with those who seek Him Alone with sincerity.
Where they are now is a start. GOD then softens their heart and guides them to the true belief.How can we believe all the messengers? Some messengers we are not told about and some we are?
GOD is saying to believe in all the messengers to those who" know for sure " the true ones and deliberately refuse to believe in them.
Has anyone checked who are the true messengers after Mohammed? Do those who claim to be believers now believe in all GOD s true messengers and have double checked the fake ones?
For example,here is a claim
http//submission.org/App2.htmlGOD Mercy is immense. GOD is the only one who knows the true believers. We concentrate on ourselves as far as the deen is concerned. We leave others to GOD s justice . We cannot call anyone who is peaceful towards us a "Kafir" . This is against the ethics of being righteous.
However if people want to label others ,it is their choice.
GOD bless you.
Peace.Peace
I thought 381 is talking about Muhammad. I mean Quran says it confirms previous scriptures and supersedes them. If it supersedes previous scriptures it doesnt need to be confirmed by a messenger hmm -
Peace Amra94.
Thanks for replying,quoteI thought 381 is talking about Muhammad. I mean Quran says it confirms previous scriptures and supersedes them. If it supersedes previous scriptures it doesnt need to be confirmed by a messenger
Two points
1- It cannot be Mohammed,because Mohammed is taking the Covenant/pledge with the Nabis
337Recall that we took from the prophets their covenant, including you ( Mohammed), Noah, Abraham, Moses, and Jesus the son of Mary. We took from them a solemn pledge.
It must be about a different messenger?2- Qoran supersedes other scriptures and confirms them,however GOD said Messengers among you will keep coming.Mohammed was the last Nabi and a messenger of GOD
3340Mohammed was not the father of any man among you. He was a messenger of God and the final prophet. God is fully aware of all things.
GOD could have said "final messenger" but did not.There is a very good reason in the context of Qoran.( GOD s religion keeps being corrupted by humans.)
My understanding.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace Amra94.
Thanks for replying,quoteI thought 381 is talking about Muhammad. I mean Quran says it confirms previous scriptures and supersedes them. If it supersedes previous scriptures it doesnt need to be confirmed by a messenger
Two points
1- It cannot be Mohammed,because Mohammed is taking the Covenant/pledge with the Nabis
337Recall that we took from the prophets their covenant, including you ( Mohammed), Noah, Abraham, Moses, and Jesus the son of Mary. We took from them a solemn pledge.
It must be about a different messenger?2- Qoran supersedes other scriptures and confirms them,however GOD said Messengers among you will keep coming.Mohammed was the last Nabi and a messenger of GOD
3340Mohammed was not the father of any man among you. He was a messenger of God and the final prophet. God is fully aware of all things.
GOD could have said "final messenger" but did not.There is a very good reason in the context of Qoran.( GOD s religion keeps being corrupted by humans.)
My understanding.
GOD bless you.
Peace.Here are my two points
1)Stop writing your own sketchy translations. It does not say was a messenger. There is no indication of an indefinite noun. Also you translate kana as was when it doesn't go with the context and flow of the passages only to suit your agenda. Have you become of the dishonest?
2)Just because 3340 is about Muhammad doesn't mean 381 does not include him.
In fact, 381 is speaking about all messengers in general, any messenger sent by God has to be believed and helped. It is not exclusive to Muhammad. In fact look at the following passages up to 85. Especially 84 and 85. It is clear that this covenant includes all messengers. 381-85 is reminding the people of the book about their covenant and duty to believe in all messengers indiscriminately. Which they weren't of course at the time most among the hadu rejected Isa and Muhammad, while most the nasara embraced Isa (making a distinction between him and other messengers) and denied Muhammad.Why can't you just be honest with yours?lf and admit you're wrong, bias and sometimes manipulative with your explanations?
Why can't you read in context and use your reason?
How dare you lie and say 381 isn't about the messenger, with no concrete explanation but your biased desire to claim messengership to rashad khalifa?Stop Enough.
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381-85 is reminding the people of the book about their covenant and duty to believe in all messengers indiscriminately. Which they weren't of course at the time most among the hadu rejected Isa and Muhammad, while most the nasara embraced Isa (making a distinction between him and other messengers) and denied Muhammad.
Yeah this makes sense. Not exlusively about Muhammad but all of God's messengers.