Are these scientific mistakes ???
-
Peace Lost.
I agree with the following translations
2265
Do you not see that God has committed in your service everything on earth? The ships run in the ocean by His command. He prevents the heavenly bodies from crashing onto the earth, except in accordance with His command. God is Most Kind towards the people, Most Merciful.
349
Have they not seen all the things in front of them and behind them, in the heaven and the earth? If we willed, we could have caused the earth to swallow them, or caused masses/meteorites to fall on them from the sky. This should be a sufficient proof for every obedient servant.
506
Have they not looked at the sky above them, and how we constructed it/designed it and adorned it(The beauty of the stars in the night sky) , without a flaw?
708
The day will come when the sky will be like molten rocks/hot lava(from the shattered stars on that day).There may be other similar translations,but I do not see any issue with.these verses or contradiction with Science.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Lately, I came across people saying that quran is not god's word because of scientific mistakes. One particular thing I'm particularly concerned about is the many verses dealing about the sky, or part of it, falling on earth and how the sky has no cracks or no pillars supporting it. I always was really puzzled by these verses especially given the fact that detractors of the quran are using them to refute a divine origin of the quran. I would thus like to be enlighted on the matter, if anyone knows how one should accurtely understand such verses, please help me out.
Lost, if you can read Arabic I would start by making a list of words in the Quran that could be used for sky, clouds, atmosphere, universe, solar systems etc.
All the English translations use these terms inconsistently.
For there ancients there were only two things the heaven above and the earth that they stood on. There was no concept of a solar system or a universe.
Their universe consisted of two distinct things;
A heaven with the sun, moon and stars in it. (A'sma)
An earth (or land) that they lived on. (Al'ard)
That's the audience the Quran is addressing. -
Peace,
There are many ones, for instance 2265 and 349 both talking about the sky falling (one possible explanation that could be given is that the term for sky/heaven is metaphorical and can mean any object falling from above). Then there's 506 dealing about how the sky has no cracks and also 708 about the sky being like molten brass during judgement day.It is always best to first see what science
exactly is
how much it is able to get things correct
how much progress is actually made in it
and above all, check the source of the info2265 and 349
Falling sky isn't unrealistic https//www.livescience.com/19949-sky-fell.html506
I certainly don't know which kind of rift God is talking about here. Layers? Space Vacuum? The glass like structure within which the universe resides?708
Haven't found anything in science about the description.Science is still very much in the elementary level.
-
My current understanding is that given that the quran is addressing people from all eras, it incorporates metaphorical verses so that no matter the scientific level of a people it is always appropriate for all. For example, this is why the quran never says explicitely that the earth is round nor flat but instead uses words that could be interpreted differently depending on the level of knowledge of a society. However, enemies of the quran fail to understand that and this causes them to see scientific errors in various verses.
-
Salaam,
The word samaa encompasses everything that you look up and see in the sky. Go outside and see the sun, moon and stars suspended in this medium. Space is a medium like water and air. Everything is floating in this medium. Who holds up these things except God? They all are floating in their orbits. Nothing holds them up except the command of God. Hope that gives you some idea of the power of God. Science can never give you ultimate truths because it is based in fallible ideas and perpetually being tested by trial and error. The aether theory was dominant before this new theory of space (vacuum). I can assure you that there is no vacuum as that would imply nothingness which was before the Big Bang. Anyway, use science as a stepping stone to the ultimate truth in the Quran. Once you know the truth, you will understand that science is only a way of looking at reality around us. My suggestion is to keep doubts active within you and keep reading the Quran and ask God for guidance. Our Lord guide us towards the truth for if you do not guide us then we will remain misguided as we do not have the means to guide ourselves. -
While it indeed appears that the sky is used as a metaphorical way of refering to anything in outer space and is not to be taken literally as some sort of roof, the verses about how god created the ''skies'', the earth and what is in between them add another dimension to the question.
-
The Koran describes the world exactly how you'd expect a 7th century Arab too.
-
I guess by now you must have met millions of Arabs of the 7th century... exactly...
Salaam
The way ancient people viewed the world around them is well established. Of course their might've been slight variations amongst the different groups but by and large they all believed in similar myths.
The ancient world generally believed the sky was solid
Astonishing as it may seem to the modern mind, with very rare excep-
tions the idea that the sky is not solid is a distinctly modern one. Historical
evidence shows that virtually everyone in the ancient world believed in a
solid firmament.http//faculty.gordon.edu/hu/bi/Ted_Hil ... nt-WTJ.pdf
They thought the sky was a canopy like structure
People did not realize how far away the heavens really were. It seemed reasonable to them that the sky was a canopy whose edges touched the surface of Earth..
http//solarsystem.nasa.gov/scitech/dis ... ?ST_ID=525
So did Allah confirm this myth
02.22
PICKTHAL Who hath appointed the earth a resting-place for you, and the sky a canopy;Allah is asking these people who made the sky a canopy for you!!
Allah is confirming their ignorance to them!! ;DAllah also claims he made the sky a roof and that this roof was a sign of Allahs existence
021.032
PICKTHAL And we have made the sky a roof withheld (from them). Yet they turn away from its portents.Once again Allah confims 7th century nonsense by telling his ignorant audience that the sky roof they 'see' is being kept up for them and that this is a sign of Allahs existence!!
This alone is is sufficient, however their are verses too implying a solid sky canopy such as a piece of the sky falling on earth and the sky be rolled up etc..
Allah has clearly confirmed their ignorance by describing the sky just as people erroneously did and not only does Allah appeal to these myths but he also vlaims it's a sign of his existence!! ;D
No rational person would view this description from a God but it is what you would expect from an ignorant person living over 1400 hundred years ago. -
The way ancient people viewed the world around them is well established. Of course their might've been slight variations amongst the different groups but by and large they all believed in similar myths.
The ancient world generally believed the sky was solid
Astonishing as it may seem to the modern mind, with very rare excep-
tions the idea that the sky is not solid is a distinctly modern one. Historical
evidence shows that virtually everyone in the ancient world believed in a
solid firmament.http//faculty.gordon.edu/hu/bi/Ted_Hil ... nt-WTJ.pdf
They thought the sky was a canopy like structure
People did not realize how far away the heavens really were. It seemed reasonable to them that the sky was a canopy whose edges touched the surface of Earth..
http//solarsystem.nasa.gov/scitech/dis ... ?ST_ID=525
So did Allah confirm this myth
02.22
PICKTHAL Who hath appointed the earth a resting-place for you, and the sky a canopy;Allah is asking these people who made the sky a canopy for you!!
Allah is confirming their ignorance to them!! ;DAllah also claims he made the sky a roof and that this roof was a sign of Allahs existence
021.032
PICKTHAL And we have made the sky a roof withheld (from them). Yet they turn away from its portents.Once again Allah confims 7th century nonsense by telling his ignorant audience that the sky roof they 'see' is being kept up for them and that this is a sign of Allahs existence!!
This alone is is sufficient, however their are verses too implying a solid sky canopy such as a piece of the sky falling on earth and the sky be rolled up etc..
Allah has clearly confirmed their ignorance by describing the sky just as ancient people erroneously did. Allah then appeals to these myths as a sign of his existence!! ;D
Today no rational person would view this as a description from God but it's what you would expect from an ignorant person living over 1400 hundred years ago. -
Salaam,
The word samaa encompasses everything that you look up and see in the sky. Go outside and see the sun, moon and stars suspended in this medium. Space is a medium like water and air. Everything is floating in this medium. Who holds up these things except God? They all are floating in their orbits. Nothing holds them up except the command of God. Hope that gives you some idea of the power of God. Science can never give you ultimate truths because it is based in fallible ideas and perpetually being tested by trial and error. The aether theory was dominant before this new theory of space (vacuum). I can assure you that there is no vacuum as that would imply nothingness which was before the Big Bang. Anyway, use science as a stepping stone to the ultimate truth in the Quran. Once you know the truth, you will understand that science is only a way of looking at reality around us. My suggestion is to keep doubts active within you and keep reading the Quran and ask God for guidance. Our Lord guide us towards the truth for if you do not guide us then we will remain misguided as we do not have the means to guide ourselves.That's a really poor understanding of science. Science works ... where as these "ultimate truths" only get you into fights.
Science cures diseases and gets you to Saturn. God doesn't need to hold up anything. -
My current understanding is that given that the quran is addressing people from all eras
I disagree, otherwise you'd have to cherry pick verses.
For example; Public lashing for fornication, do you think that has a place in a civilized society. There are plenty of verses that simply can't be applied today.
-
peace rationalthinker,
The most telling thing about your post was the following word (highlighted in bold)
This alone is is sufficient, however their are verses too implying a solid sky canopy such as a piece of the sky falling on earth and the sky be rolled up etc..
If you actually have solid explicit errors, then create your own thread with the strongest 5 your rational thinking mind can fathom from all your research. If you do create a thread I want you to explicitly state these are the strongest errors you can find after much research. Then we can see if they hold up to scrutiny.
-
A psychological punishment for fornication is just as effective as a physical one and even better actually. If the society disapproves heavily of the fornication then the culprit will suffer mentally. The method of psychological punishment should be considered, to totally disown the person forever may be taking it too far.
The physical punishment is just ridiculously barbaric and primitive showing of a low level of development. Since mentally afflicting a mind is harder on that person than a physical punishment it is still better and leaves no scars for when the person has repented from their wrongdoing.
The alleged prescribed punishment of lashing via Quran is just showing how out of phase it is with the reality of a supernatural being. Either the text says something else or it is not of a supernatural origin. Not would it prescribe lashing if it was from a supernatural origin (i.e. what you refer to as God/Allah).
Furthermore, fornication causes only mental harm to the spouse(s) of the one(s) involved in the act, so in the Law it was prescribed "eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth, life for a life etc" meaning the punishment for the culprit(s) fall/s under mental pain since that is the equivalent punishment to the culprit as the spouse(s) suffer mental pain. The lashing is contradictory to how justice is served via the ancient so-called Mosaic law including the famous "eye for an eye".
And if the spouse(s) can forgive the fornication then this is clearly merciful by them and then their lives can move on as long as the trust can be repaired.
If none of the culprits were not bonded then this is just a case of vain intercourse unless they decide to bond thereafter with each other and thus it is not a sin since declaring to stay as bonded is equal to an oath of bonding and it can be done in private, but before a couple of witnesses is safer FOR THEMSELVES as if the other one lied then they have witnesses which can prove the oath was indeed uttered and the liar can be judged both under the "false testimony" (no lies) and "fornication" (vain sex) commandments of the Law and be inflicted psychological pain upon by showing the community does not approve of wrongdoing.
That above is the jurisdiction of a supernatural being (God/Allah).
Be well
Qarael Amenuel -
The alleged prescribed punishment of lashing via Quran is just showing how out of phase it is with the reality of a supernatural being. Either the text says something else or it is not of a supernatural origin. Not would it prescribe lashing if it was from a supernatural origin (i.e. what you refer to as God/Allah).
At the same time it is not logical to say the verse (242) was added later on because if it in fact was added or straight fabricated it would not be lashing but stoning to death so that there would be no cotradiction between both the Torah and the hadith. I often catch myself thinking that one of the primary reasons I believe there is something entirely different about the Qur'an compared to previous Scriptures is the fact it does not contain stoning to death and a number of other things. At the same time wars in self-defense and physical punishments are still cautious to me. I am not sure why are these things there, either Qur'an was written in another language or there is something very inconstant about the classic Arabic.
-
At the same time it is not logical to say the verse (242) was added later on because if it in fact was added or straight fabricated it would not be lashing but stoning to death so that there would be no cotradiction between both the Torah and the hadith. I often catch myself thinking that one of the primary reasons I believe there is something entirely different about the Qur'an compared to previous Scriptures is the fact it does not contain stoning to death and a number of other things. At the same time wars in self-defense and physical punishments are still cautious to me. I am not sure why are these things there, either Qur'an was written in another language or there is something very inconstant about the classic Arabic.
It is true that traditionalists changed word meanings. I still need to research on how much truth is there in the claim that the concept of "sin" in the interpretation was brought to Quran to cater to Arab Christians who were converting at the time. Mr Ibn Hanbal who later became the apple of Mutwakkil's eyes admitted to not liking the overall interpretation of the Quran back then despite the fact that his contemporaries said Hanbal knew very less about Islam. Both of those people were partners in crime of forcing hadiths on Muslims. I am suspicious of the meanings like prostration, bow with those who bow and establish salat,
I don't see much in lashing since it can only be done if there are witnesses. Plus, public orgy dedicated to certain gods and goddesses has been talked about many times throughout the centuries.
