Dawn not part of nighttime?
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I came across some interesting verses that may suggest that dawn ("fajr" is not part of the nighttime ("layl".) Note day ("yawm" = daytime ("nahar" + nighttime ("layl"
2187 "It has been made lawful for you during the nighttime of fasting ("laylat al siyyam" to approach your women sexually. They are a garment for you and you are a garment for them. God knows that you used to betray yourselves so He has accepted your repentance, and forgiven you; now you may approach them and seek what God has written for you..."
- I want to highlight mid-verse that we are still at nighttime -
"...You may eat and drink (comment again we are still talking about nighttime - eating/drinking is only allowed during nighttime during the times of fasting) until the white thread is distinct from the black thread of dawn; then you shall complete the fast until nighttime..."
I want to highlight the following
We are allowed to eat and drink until and not including the beginning of DAWN, AND THEN we are to COMPLETE the fast UNTIL NIGHTTIME
Thus the mumineen are to fast from fajr to layl - clearly fajr is in contrast to the layl.
Next examples verses 1778-79
1778 You shall uphold the bond/commitment/"salat" at the setting of the sun until the darkness of the night; and the reading/"quran" at dawn. The reading/"quran" at dawn has been witnessed.
Comment We end verse 78 with dawn/reading at dawn
1779 And from the nighttime, as an addition, you shall reflect upon it for yourself, perhaps your Lord would grant you a station that is praiseworthy.
"It" clearly refers to reading/"quran" and the verse refers to nighttime/"layl" which stands in contrast to dawn/"fajr" and "quran al fajr" that was mentioned before.
Note Dawn reading/"quran al fajr" --> and from the night/layl you shall reflect on it additionally.
Interestingly, I have not come across any verse suggesting isha (dusk/evening) isnt part of al nahar (dayttime)
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Root
Semantic Domain Physical Cosmology.
Alteration of night and day is one of the unique phenomenon of our universe. Allah the Exalted, the setter of the sciences, has explicitly elaborated the phenomenon with the choice of words that it equally appeals to the intelligibility of a common man and the scientists who observe natural phenomena in depth.
The beginning and phases of the night
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Whilst I understand your observation I think you are reading too much into it. The day/night cycle is not digital, i.e. either a 0 or a 1, it is analogue, i.e. the change is gradual, and when the change occurs is subjective.
e.g.
in 1778 it says until the darkness of the night (i.e. when one stops it would be in night, albeit the start, thus a tiny part of the night will almost certainly be used), resulting in a problem for your reasoning if you want to be ultra strict.
Similarly, determining when the white thread of dawn is will be subjective, thus its likely one could inadvertently cross into dawn/fajr twilight before they stop eating/drinking. Also, at this point a mumineen would be preparing for or engaging in the regular/timed salat/bond anyway thus permitted night relations would have ended, thus it seems the perfect timing marker to use.
And lastly I think a person would understand it as when the night returns again, in a cyclical system, if they are told not to do something "until the night" whilst being in the tail end of that part.
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Peace Wakas,
in 1778 it says until the darkness of the night (i.e. when one stops it would be in night, albeit the start, thus a tiny part of the night will almost certainly be used), resulting in a problem for your reasoning if you want to be ultra strict.
I didnt claim anything that would contradict that. In fact nowhere did I claim that nighttime only has absolute darkness. Further, I am of the opinion that salat al isha stops immediately when its dark i.e. start at sunset and end at darkness. Even if what you say were the case, it is a matter of a few seconds/minutes - with a naked eye anyone would most likely be off by a bit.
Similarly, determining when the white thread of dawn is will be subjective, thus its likely one could inadvertently cross into dawn/fajr twilight before they stop eating/drinking.
Again minor nitpicking and also the argument isnt about when the thread is although I am of the opinion that this refers to the first visible sun ray(s) at dawn - although this thread issue wasnt part of my argument.
Also, at this point a mumineen would be preparing for or engaging in the regular/timed salat/bond anyway thus permitted night relations would have ended, thus it seems the perfect timing marker to use.
I agree. Is this supposed to contradict my argument from before?
And lastly I think a person would understand it as when the night returns again, in a cyclical system, if they are told not to do something "until the night" whilst being in the tail end of that part.
The question arises Why does it not say "fast from dawn to duluk al shams or isha?" Why would it use layl if it supposedly includes fajr?
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The question arises Why does it not say "fast from dawn to duluk al shams or isha?" Why would it use layl if it supposedly includes fajr?
Peace, see thumma/furthermore (i.e. in concurrence) -- not talking about separate events where one follows another.
2187 and eat ye of and drinks ye of until is shown for you the thread the white from the thread the black from the dawn thumma/furthermore complete ye of the abstinence to the night
A clear binary definition for night and daytime is given ?
911 and the sun (f) and morning rise/brightness hers/its
912 and the moon when follows her/it (i.e. the sun)
913 and the daytime when displays her/it (i.e. the sun)
914 and the night when covered her/it (i.e. the sun) -
Peace progressive1993,
39/5 He created the heavens and earth in truth. He wraps the night over the day and
wraps the day over the night and has subjected the sun and the moon, each running
for a specified term. Unquestionably, He is the Exalted in Might, the
Perpetual Forgiver.And
39/5 He created the heavens and the earth in true (proportions) He makes the Night
overlap the Day, and the Day overlap the Night He has subjected the sun and the
moon (to His law) Each one follows a course for a time appointed. Is not He the
Exalted in Power - He Who forgives again and again?Yes as a matter of fact I do Quran Kareem
This link is from brother Wakas http//www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htm
Kaf-Waw-Ra (Kaf-Alif-Ra) = To wind, twist/fold/wrap, he wound round a turban,
divested of light, blinded, shall pass away and come to naught.The day and night blend or merge at sunset and sunrise.
39/5 He created the heavens and earth in truth. He wraps the night over the day and
wraps the day over the night and has subjected the sun and the moon, each running
for a specified term. Unquestionably, He is the Exalted in Might, the Perpetual Forgiver.I ask such questions because Islam is easy and many times personal reasons
are used to obscure the directives of Allah therefore some introspection may be a way
to come to an understanding.Have a blessed Ramadan
peace
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peace,
The question arises Why does it not say "fast from dawn to duluk al shams or isha?" Why would it use layl if it supposedly includes fajr?
"duluk al shams" is not quite right as it could be interpreted as rubbing/pressing of the sun (on the horizon) i.e. when the sun disc touches the horizon, see
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-SaBiH-from-Quran.htmlIt could have said isha, but if layl incorporates the twilights then it's the same thing is it not?
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The question arises Why does it not say "fast from dawn to duluk al shams or isha?" Why would it use layl if it supposedly includes fajr?
http//haqeeqat.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/temp%2002%20%202.187%20m%20tabayyun.gif
http//haqeeqat.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/temp%2002%20%202.187k%20small%20aftar.gifRoot
( ة.
That it leads to the perception of disappearance, termination, coming to an end of a thing with reference to another, and it is but smoothly and softly.
In common parlance it is setting of the Sun when used in possessive phrase . In most general way it is . It is the starting point of the lunar day; and the start of the Night by solar reference.
The preposition http//haqeeqat.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.%20Tabweeb/0001.%20Pronouns%20and%20Prepositions/Prepositions/01.Illa,%20allaihe,%20illayya/01.gif is used spatiotemporally and its general meaning is directional towards an object signifying the end point and start of a different spatiotemporal reference. It does not denote penetrating into a new spatiotemporal domain.
The Night ends with the appearance of Nautical Twilight as mentioned in Ayah. Thenceforward you complete the fast spatiotemporally moving up to the night-Sun set beginning of a new lunar day.
Where there is no nautical twilight phenomenon, the injunction would obviously become impracticable, according to understood principles of law - injunctions.
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Peace Mazhar,
I am not good at reading Arabic script - can you use a transliteration of the root, words and verse and a citation, please?
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It could have said isha, but if layl incorporates the twilights then it's the same thing is it not?
And if it doesnt? God applies perfect measure to the words and numbers used in The Reading. Things arent just random.
"duluk al shams" is not quite right as it could be interpreted as rubbing/pressing of the sun (on the horizon) i.e. when the sun disc touches the horizon, see
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-SaBiH-from-Quran.htmlI don't see any convincing evidence as to what duluk al shams is from that article. However, I just thought about it and I do see that it can be understood as "sinking of the sun" i.e. when the sun starts moving below/beyond the horizon and we can still see most of it.
I just thought about the term "ghasaq al layl" and how this could contradict "layl" being complete darkness as otherwise it would be obvous that layl has "ghasaq." However, I also noticed that a different root is used for darkness (and wronging, oppressing, evil, etc) and its ZLM. GhSQ seems to have a meaning of 'ice cold darkness' - what is the exact difference?
Compare this to GhRB and DLK - also very similar but we can understand the former as sunset or when the sun is below the horizon and DLK as starting when the sun hasnt gone below the horizon yet.
I do see that GhSQ al LaYL can be used the same way I have argued for FaJR - as GhSQ being redundnat if LaYL is already complete darkness. If thats, the case, what exactly is ghasaq al layl then? How dark?
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I want to post some more verses in the same spirit as the OP.
8416 Oh, I call to witness the twilight/rosy afterglow of sunset ("al shafaq."
8417 And the night ("al layl) and all that it envelops/enshrouds.
Al shafaq and al layl used separately - and night given a description of total darkness/covering with darkness.
