Salat of the believers includes reading, reciting and also preaching?
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First, I wanted to discuss 1187 and it's context and discuss one aspect of salat that I had been thinking about for a while now, and then further verses came to mind so I also analyzed them.
The context of 1187 is Shuayb preaching to his people and proclaiming major commandments while engaging in a discourse with them serve God, do not serve idols, do not commit business fraud. It seems like business fraud was the main problem in Midian, much like homosexuality was the big problem in Sodom.
1184 To Midian was their brother Shuayb. He said, "O my people! Serve God. You have no god besides Him. And do not give short in the measure and weight. I see you in prosperity, but I also fear for you the punishment of a day that is encompassing."
1185 "My people, give full measure and weight with justice, do not hold back from the people what is theirs, and do not roam the land corrupting."
1186 "What will remain for you with God is far better if you are those who acknowledge. I am not a guardian over you."
So this is all we find out from Shuayb preaching to his people. Clearly, this was a dialogue and a gathering of people.
Now comes his people's response
1187 They said, "O Shuayb, does your salat order/command/instruct/enjoin you that we leave what our fathers served, or that we do not do with our money as we please? Because surely, you are the clement, the right-minded!"
How can these people know that his salat is ordering or enjoining him to do anything? Why are they saying that his salat is exactly ordering/enjoining him to basically relate to them what he just said? If salat is done privately inside a home or closed off in a temple only for believers, then how would they know that his salat is ordering or enjoining him? Moreover, how would they even know what salat is in that case? All they witnessed was him preaching to them. Some people claim that a ritual prayer helps you remember God, which in turn makes you a better person and they claim that thus salat prohibits sexual immorality and abominable/bad conduct (2945). I would argue that what he just did is aimed at preventing them from commiting abominable and bad conduct.
Let's continue with the next few relevant verses
1188 He said, "O my people, do you see that if I am on clear evidence from my Lord, and He has provided me with good provision from Him, then I would not want to contradict by doing what I forbid you from. I only want to fix what I can, and my guidance is only with God. To Him I place my trust, and to Him I repent."
1189 "My people, let not your hatred towards me incriminate you that you suffer the fate of what afflicted the people of Noah, or the people of Hud, or the people of Saleh; and the people of Lot were not far off from you."
1190 "Seek forgiveness from your Lord then repent to Him. My Lord is Compassionate, Loving."
1191 They said, "O Shuayb, much of what you tell us is beyond our comprehension. We see that you are not a man of power in our midst. If we were not concerned about your family and your tribe, we would have stoned you. You are of no value to us."
1192 He said, "O my people! Do my family and tribe command a greater respect than God? And you put Him behind you, neglected. Remember, my Lord surrounds all you do."
1193 "O My people! Do your utmost and so will I. Soon you will find out which of us will incur the chastisement of humiliation, and who is a liar. Just watch and I will be watching along with you.
1194 When Our command came to pass, We saved Shoaib, and those who believed with him, by a mercy from Us. An awful blast seized the wrongdoers. The morning found them dead in their very homes, on the ground.
1195 As if they had never lived there. Oh, away with Midyan, just as the Thamud have been done away with!
So Shuayb preached to them and recited part of God's law - specifically parts that were relevant to his people. His preaching fell on deaf ears and they clearly did not sajadoo (submit/acknowledge/make obeisance) after hearing his message. They rejected him.
Now I want to quote a relevant verse that I had mentioned before
2945 Recite what is inspired to you of the law and uphold the salat; for the salat prohibits sexual immorality and abominable conduct, and the remembrance of God is the greatest. God knows everything you do.
Is this not exactly what Shua'yb did and tried to accomplish? He went out to his people and recited from God's law points that were very important and relevant to his people. His people, who were clearly ignorant of Shuayb's deen would not know that he does a ritual prayer, or at least we are not told, and therefore it is not relevant. All we are told is that he went out to his people and preached the law of God.
Moreover, could the the first "wa" in that verse just join two things that are alike or done at the same time - i.e. reciting part of the law is part of salat?
Of course, it could also refer to self-study, although the verse can be universally applied. Reciting it to others can prevent them causing sexual immorality and abominable/evil conduct, the same way reading it for ourselves can have the same effect for us.
Now let us read on
2946 Do not argue with the learned people/doctors of the law except in the best manner - except for those who are wicked amongst them - and say, "We believe in what was revealed to us and in what was revealed to you, and our god and your god is the same; to Him we are submitters/peacemakers."
This is related. It talks about engaging and arguing in a positive way with the doctors/learned people of the law in a good way, pointing out similarities between Al Quran and their Torah, teaching them the message of Al Quran, etc.
This can be related to qurana al fajr in 1778 - the recitation of dawn. Another point to note is why is "qurana al isha" never mentioned? Were people during the times of the relevant menssengers up and about during the time of dawn to hear someone recite laws/messages? Perhaps this also refers to self-reading and studying. This does not mean that one cannot recite aloud to others during the evening, I think. It would make sense to self-study at dawn and then during the evening when people are done with their business day to go out and recite to them and engage with them - although this is also true for the dawn. This recitation for others can be for non-believers and I think that this is an important aspect of our mission and the messengers' missions of the past.
This in turn relates to the following
17110 Say, "Call on God or call on The Almighty. Whichever it is you call on, to Him belong the best names." And do not tajhar bi salatika, and also do not tukhafit biha, but seek a path in between.
Often, this is translated or interpretated to mean that people should not utter their prayer loudly nor silently, but have a moderate voice. The fact is, however, voice is not used in the verse, although that does not mean that this verse is not referring to being loud/quiet in salat.
The root J-H-R carries the following meanings apparent, public, loud, plain, discover, etc. - this root is used in another places to mean speaking loudly, public mention, revealing (as opposed to concealing), etc.
The root Kh-F-T carries the following meanings silent (voice), still, weak, etc. - This root is used in another instance to mean whisper/secretly talk, confide, etc.
I think both meanings are relevant. Thus it can mean
Do not be loud in your salat, nor shall you be silent
Do not be overly public in your salat, nor shall you shy away from people
Do not be in people's faces, nor shall you fear people and back off
Do not be overly confontational, nor shall you keep what you think and your message to yourselfSo possibly salat does not only entail listening to somone recite The Recitation or studying/reading it ourselves, but also going out and reciting it to others, inviting others to hear and discuss, etc. Thus, we would be inviting them to the message of God. With the internet, this obviusly becomes much easier. Ultimately, the messengers mentioned in The Recitation had to openly declare their message and invite people. All messengers were charged with the salat, as far as I know. God's system was fundamentally the same throughout the history mentioned in The Recitation.
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Big Like from me, brother (Y), that is why it is said in the beginning of some words Say ....... , to recite and preach it to others. The best way of doing this, is using the internet
Peace! Thanks for your kind words peace
What are your thoughts on salat otherwise? -
It was like a 2 times per day meeting for the mumineen at the time of the prophet, where they all met together, and the Prophet recited them the verses and preached things from the Quran, but it has also the meaning of commitment or following closely. I do not think that God meant a ritual prayer with salat
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Some more relevant verses
2143 As such, We have made you a balanced/impartial nation so that you (plural - believers) may be witnesses over the people, and that the messenger may be witness over you....
We are supposed to be a witness over people - i.e. warn them using The Recitation/Quran.
Note this verse
17106 A recitation that We have separated, so that you may relate it to the people over time; and We have brought it down gradually.And now what follows is the messenger conveying messages to people
17107 Say, "Acknowledge it or do not acknowledge. Those who have been given the knowledge before it, when it is recited to them, they fall to their chins prostrating.
17108 They say, "Praise be to our Lord. Truly, the promise of our Lord was fulfilled."
17109 They fall upon their chins crying, and it increases them in humility.And then of course comes 17110 that was already discussed.
Also this
8420 So what is the matter with them that they do not believe?
8421 When the Quran/Recitation is being recited to them, they do not submit/acknowledge.6815 When Our signs are related to him, he says "Tales from the past!"
2791 "I have been ordered to serve the Lord of this town that He has made restricted, and to Him are all things, and I have been ordered to be of those who peacefully surrender."
2792 "And that I relate the Qur'an/Recitation." He who is guided is guided for himself, and to he who is misguided, say "I am but one of the warners."This shows that it is important to be a warner and relate the message/reminder to people.
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There is this video https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=4APNPrfRORQ&t=2s
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I see many problems with the brother s explanations
He says salat means follow closely and support 2 meaning.Then he explains salawat as a plural meaning support , GOD to human,human to human and human to messenger. Is this not one salat which is support?Inconsistency, if root of salat means follow closely of GOD s laws, then why use "support " for the same root? Is it because he sees an issue with GOD doing salat for others?
If we are to "Aquimi salat"(follow closely GOD s laws) how come we are reading,glorifying,bowing,sujud,remembering GOD as well at certain times?
Why are we not "following closely GOD s laws" only at certain times?Why does Qoran say "Aquimi salat and follow GOd s laws as well? (Many verses that he tried to explain as "Follow GOD s laws" have Aquimi salat as extra?
According to my study,salat has "many " different meaning including commitment,support,follow GOD s system...
However Quimi salat has also different meanings one of them is a "connection with GOD" at specific times" with ruku and sujud and glorification...Taught to Abraham and his generation and passed down.I fail to see how the brother is doing his "Aquimi salat" ? Why does he not post a video of the practicality of how to "Aquimi salat" qith the ruku,bowing glorification,reading of Qoran and preaching? Or has he got a problem with not finding the details of it in Qoran?
GOD bless .
Peace. -
Brother the Sardar,there are many "salat according to Qoran only" videos and they differ on their opinions,for example
https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ql4pPgAbDU
...etc just browse and see all the differences even with Qoranists.
So complicated?
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
There is this video https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=4APNPrfRORQ&t=2s
offtopic
Immature guy (in the video)
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Congratulations to Layth for copying the ideas in this thread and engaging in the salat shuffle by translating the singular noun "salat" as the plural noun "interactions" in 1187 although he has it as "Communion" (yes capitalized) in all other instances as far as I could tell.
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fftopic
Immature guy (in the video)
How is he inmature?
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Salamun Dear progressive1993!
I like the way you are trying to understand the term of As-Salat. You have referred the following verses but have not given attention to the differences of words
1187 - Where the word is used which is (++ک
2945 - Where the word is used twice which is ( + ة
17110 - Where the word is used , which is ( + + کSimilarily, you can compare the following Ayats
239 - Where the word is used
7034 - Where the word is usedNow notice the difference in following Ayats
258 - Where the word is used twice
2238 - Where the words are used and pluralHope you will review and study more carefully to get more of the knowledge. I do not think that and have the same meanings.
Sahih International And do not pursue that of which you have no knowledge. Indeed, the hearing, the sight and the heart - about all those will be questioned.
Peace!
