I find it hard to believe in eternal unbearable hell
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The example of Paradise, which the righteous have been promised, is beneath it rivers flow. Its fruit is lasting, and its shade. That is the consequence for the righteous, and the consequence for the disbelievers is the Fire.
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Is the example of Paradise, which the righteous are promised, wherein are rivers of water unaltered, rivers of milk the taste of which never changes, rivers of wine delicious to those who drink, and rivers of purified honey, in which they will have from all fruits and forgiveness from their Lord, like those who abide eternally in the Fire and are given to drink scalding water that will sever their intestines?
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What has "progressive thought" (whatever is meant by that, because thought is not progressive or regressive but sound or unsound) to do with eternity?
ONLY GOD is eternal. And I insist that people ban dy this idea "eternal" as if they knew rally what it is. We do not know3 zilch t5o adscribe that meaning to what God Says.
God says that the wicked used to say they will only bre in the fire a few days, God mocks them.
Why does God mock them. I can think of two reasons- They do not have a blooming idea of hell or what it may last
- A "few days" of hell would be more thna plenty for any sensible person. One can only disdain the cruellest suffering when one does not have a blooming idea of what the cruellest suffering entails. If they knew they would give up all their life to avoid it.
Destiny ends in God. There is no destiny after that qiyaam is nto the end of destiny, nor hell nor paradise is. The destiny is God. wa ilaihe al maSir. This eternal hell and paradise is a recooking of catholic thought for muslims, just as so many things pushed into islam by partial believers. We consume catholic and biblical thought and put on it label "islam".
And God is Just, Al 3adl, were he to create an eternal hell for people, He would not be Just. Both things cannot go together, eternal hell and justice.
Salaam
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Won't that make hell a God?
Indeed
There are things human thought cannot solve. May be human hearts can, beause of love of God and nearness to Him, but human thought can't, just as a blind person by birth cannot conceive colors. How can we know something we cannot even conceive? All we can do is play at having ingenious thoughts. That is play. that is not knowledge. We, most people, I think, know what suffering is, some much better than others and we might, from there get some idea, but eternity...
May God have Mercy on His creation.
Salaam
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http//19.org/blog/hell/
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Regarding what some posters have put forward, <i think Edip Yuksel and others, in the sense that those in hell at some point are simply anihilated, it brings me to mind the belief of Ancient Egyptians that those that were most heinous transgessors, cruel criminals, and similar, that is wht happenned to them after death, there wa sno life for them, they were terminated for good. It seems that that was the worst conceivable thing that could happen to anybody. I guess they had not yet improved their conception of punishment to the "delicacy" of eternal hell.
Salaam
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Regarding what some posters have put forward, <i think Edip Yuksel and others, in the sense that those in hell at some point are simply anihilated, it brings me to mind the belief of Ancient Egyptians that those that were most heinous transgessors, cruel criminals, and similar, that is wht happenned to them after death, there wa sno life for them, they were terminated for good. It seems that that was the worst conceivable thing that could happen to anybody. I guess they had not yet improved their conception of punishment to the "delicacy" of eternal hell.
Salaam
Are Jannat and Hell physical places? Or in the next life they represent condition of
- bliss for those who could give ZAKA to their nafoos or
- regret for those who could not give ZAKA to their nafoos.
Salaam
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Are Jannat and Hell physical places? Or in the next life they represent condition of
- bliss for those who could give ZAKA to their nafoos or
- regret for those who could not give ZAKA to their nafoos.
Salaam
If I have not got it wrong, there are degrees in the jannat as it could not be otherwise, because although starting from a good for all, there must also be justice, and the better ones get also better rewards, which is logical if we see tht what we get is what we have worked for, that is the after life is the fruit of the tree we have planted in this life.
Salaam
As to physical, I do not see why it should not be, and also what is the difference between non physical and physical, is there such a chasm between them? or is it simply that we are constrained in our present three dimensions, and cannot even feel a fourth, or fifth?
The Qur'an says that in janna we will recognize what we had in previous life, so there is a continuation.
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As to physical, I do not see why it should not be, and also what is the difference between non physical and physical, is there such a chasm between them? or is it simply that we are constrained in our present three dimensions, and cannot even feel a fourth, or fifth?
Salaam
Thats what I meant to say that it might be a different realm/dimension and not these three dimensions.
The Qur'an says that in janna we will recognize what we had in previous life, so there is a continuation.
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SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
And give good tidings to those who believe and do righteous deeds that they will have gardens beneath which rivers flow. Whenever they are provided with a provision of fruit therefrom, they will say, "This is what we were provided with before." And it is given to them in likeness. And they will have therein purified spouses, and they will abide therein eternally.As per above ayat whatever would be provided in Jannah, would be MUTSHABIHA and not what is provided here. So there is continuity of provisions but not the same things. We would be provided as per our needs in that realm. I assume that we cannot understand or perceive next life and its provisions in this life.
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Salaam
Thats what I meant to say that it might be a different realm/dimension and not these three dimensions.
225
SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
And give good tidings to those who believe and do righteous deeds that they will have gardens beneath which rivers flow. Whenever they are provided with a provision of fruit therefrom, they will say, "This is what we were provided with before." And it is given to them in likeness. And they will have therein purified spouses, and they will abide therein eternally.As per above ayat whatever would be provided in Jannah, would be MUTSHABIHA and not what is provided here. So there is continuity of provisions but not the same things. We would be provided as per our needs in that realm. I assume that we cannot understand or perceive next life and its provisions in this life.
"This is what we were provided with before.", so we will be able to recognize things. Peace, company, for instance.
As to dimensions, what I meant is, I think, that we keep three dimensions and some more are added, not that we are disvested of those we have and get other instead.
Salaam
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"This is what we were provided with before.", so we will be able to recognize things. Peace, company, for instance.
As to dimensions, what I meant is, I think, that we keep three dimensions and some more are added, not that we are disvested of those we have and get other instead.
Salaam
Salaam
Please rethink about the part of the verse
If my Arabic is not wrong then it means "....and they were given MUTASHABIHA.."About these three dimensions and adding more is just our guess work. We will know it when time comes in the next life. Meanwhile I take it as academic discussion and focus on MUHKAMAT to spend my life accordingly.
Your brother in Islam
Novice
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Why there should be incompatibility between one thing and the other, they come one right after the other, none of them needs to be false, finally it is what it says.
As to the dimensions, yes that is my CONJECTURE, that is what I meant, that that was my guess or conjecture not that I know, but I do not know the opposite either.
Salaam
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Why there should be incompatibility between one thing and the other, they come one right after the other, none of them needs to be false, finally it is what it says.
As to the dimensions, yes that is my CONJECTURE, that is what I meant, that that was my guess or conjecture not that I know, but I do not know the opposite either.
Salaam
These are two sentences
They said this is we were provided before ( The receivers of provision say this)
And they were given Mutashabiha (The provider of provision say this)
In my humble understanding emphasis is not what was provided but that their need was met.
They said their needs were met before.
The provider said their needs were met similarly.
In the end we are just trying to understand it. We will know for sure in the next life only.
Salaam
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The thing is that what we are told is that both things are true. Those who say that, RECOGNIZE it undoubtedly and if hey re given things which ressemble they still recognize them, and according to what we are told about janna it is logical, as I said, what is depicted, independently of it baeing different in material aspects or that it is material or inmaterial, we still recognize the "essence" contentment, peacefulness, satisfaction, the best company...
