We see "Messengers" in this forum? O_O

Novice

Last time i talked with him, he didn't have much followers. And now I see have 177K subscribers hypno

I did talked with him and I told him, if you are lying, know that ALLAH is severe in punishment.
He was saying me, he knows and he is not lying and he doesn't force anyone to believe what he says. Like the "messengers of the covenant" says.

I believe that wahi had been completed for us in Quran. No need for any messenger after that.

good_logic

I believe messengers will keep coming as long as there are Beni Adam on earth. True and false ones.
But for those that already believe in Qoran, they have their living messenger. No true messenger of the past, the present or the future will contradict Qoran or gives you a different message than what Qoran is already doing.
Messenger is no big deal, if you follow the Qoran s message, you are following all the messengers, past, present and future.
GOD bless.
Peace.

Jafar

Brother, messengership is important because if a messenger delivers you the message but you deny him, that's a dangerous thing because Allah mentioned "Obey Allah, Obey the Messenger" Allah could tell "Obey Allah alone" or "Obey the Quran"

Really? Why?
Allah will be angry and torture the rejector of the message for all eternity?

I did talked with him and I told him, if you are lying, know that ALLAH is severe in punishment.
He was saying me, he knows and he is not lying and he doesn't force anyone to believe what he says. Like the "messengers of the covenant" says.

Finally.. a modest messenger, who does not threaten anyone with eternal torture...
Unlike the 'you know who'....

armom

I believe messengers will keep coming as long as there are Beni Adam on earth. True and false ones.
But for those that already believe in Qoran, they have their living messenger. No true messenger of the past, the present or the future will contradict Qoran or gives you a different message than what Qoran is already doing.
Messenger is no big deal, if you follow the Qoran s message, you are following all the messengers, past, present and future.
GOD bless.
Peace.

Even if you follow only Quran there are disagreements. What if a messenger coming to solve those disagreements but we refused to listen to that guy? And because the guy is a messenger, he might have the truth. As messengers communicate with God or Angels angel

Jafar

Even if you follow only Quran there are disagreements. What if a messenger coming to solve those disagreements but we refused to listen to that guy? And because the guy is a messenger, he might have the truth. As messengers communicate with God or Angels angel

It's ok.. as long as
The messenger(s) doesn't kill, torture or threaten anyone..
And the non-messenger(s) doesn't kill, torture or threaten the messenger..

The real truth doesn't need any protection it just need to be told..

good_logic

Peace armom.
How do you know a messenger is true if you do not check?
How do you check? What is the criteria?
The role of messenger is to warn "There is no other authority /god except "the one GOD and avoid idol worship". What better than to follow the only authority, GOD and His message( scripture).

Sorry brother,you seem to miss the point that a true messenger will only direct you to GOD s message. You check by using GOD s words/criteria.
I repeat, following Qoran is following all true messengers.
As for disagreements, do you think people are going to agree with all the messenger s views? Of course they are going to disagree with some and agree with others. Study Qoran and look at the history of messengers!!!

Disagreements are part of this life and its trials. They will only be totally solved at GOD s.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

huruf

Need of a uniform view may be a deisease after all. If it is not what it certainly is is impossible and undesirable.

Life is change, existnce for criatures is change. Nothings stays unmoving. Disagreement is nto only with others, it is within each person. Which person has not changed in ideas, in beliefs, affections all along her life? If we do not agree even with ourselves, how or why on earth should we agree with others? That is a condition of our nature, that is the means for us to be what God has made us to be. We should not seek agreement, but arrangement. That is what civilisation is about, to be able to sustain life while coming to common grounds with others so that groups of people can make life better for the whole. No civilisation, no person could advance or improve if others were not there to give her elements other than those she already has in order to reconognize her own elements and to add or discard those whe needs or may use. Life is exchange, what are we going to exchange if we are all the same?

Sometimes even a bad exchange is better than no exchange at all. Like the well known fact that couples who never dispute there is something wrong with them (or are really weird).

We evolve through rubbing with others. That is the way it is. For that we must have different experiences, strengths, weaknesses.

Adn what goes for personalities goes for things we learn and how we learn them. We need an external reference to check ourselves against it.

Salaam

armom

Peace armom.
How do you know a messenger is true if you do not check?
How do you check? What is the criteria?
The role of messenger is to warn "There is no other authority /god except "the one GOD and avoid idol worship". What better than to follow the only authority, GOD and His message( scripture).

Sorry brother,you seem to miss the point that a true messenger will only direct you to GOD s message. You check by using GOD s words/criteria.
I repeat, following Qoran is following all true messengers.
As for disagreements, do you think people are going to agree with all the messenger s views? Of course they are going to disagree with some and agree with others. Study Qoran and look at the history of messengers!!!

Disagreements are part of this life and its trials. They will only be totally solved at GOD s.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

But, people like Rashad Khalifa has brought the same message that "There is no other authority /god except "the one GOD and avoid idol worship"

So why are the people still talking bad against him? In this forum I found many of the reject Rashad's message even the message was "There is no other authority /god except "the one GOD and avoid idol worship"

While the Qur'an says to Obey the Messenger and not obey the MESSAGE. If obeying the messenger is same as obeying the message (Quran) then why would God didn't use the word "MESSAGE" directly?

Novice

While the Qur'an says to Obey the Messenger and not obey the MESSAGE. If obeying the messenger is same as obeying the message (Quran) then why would God didn't use the word "MESSAGE" directly?

So brother how do you obey Allah? and how do you obey the rasool?

Jafar

So brother how do you obey Allah? and how do you obey the rasool?

I have a much more interesting question...

If Allah = True God
And, True God is all powerful and nothing can happened without in accordance to His will and Plan
Then
How can anyone or anything 'disobey' the True God?
And act NOT in accordance to His will and Plan?

good_logic

jafar, GOD s will and plan also includes the allocated time for you, me and everyone else to shape their destiny through their own choices and decisions. GOD has made that promise to all of us
Do whatever you will/want ,GOD is seer of everything you do.
Whoever wants...and whoever wants ...
Just because GOD is powerful and all knowing, GOD also keeps a promise not to force people against their choices/decisions.
As far as we are concerned, even though some think we have no choice in being humans, (I think we accepted this/Amana),we are making our own choices and decisions.
As far as GOD is concerned, everything conforms to HIs will and plan.
jafar brother, a clear example is yourself, GOD is not stopping you undermining/criticising Qoran.
Best of luck to you on your choices and decisions.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Jafar

As far as GOD is concerned, everything conforms to HIs will and plan.
jafar brother, a clear example is yourself, GOD is not stopping you undermining/criticising Qoran.
Best of luck to you on your choices and decisions.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

The God who get frustrated, angry, can be disobeyed and be warred against it's not the monopoly of the Quran, such (dubious) concept also exist in the Bible and (especially) Torah.

Thus only the last part that I agree...

It's in accordance to God's plan that I did what I did and you did what you did.
It's in accordance to God's plan that I will do what I will do and you will do what you will do..
It's in accordance to God's plan that they did what they did and they will do what they will do..

There is no way that The True God that controls EVERYTHING can be "Disobeyed" let alone "Be Warred Against".
Everything is in OBEDIENCE to God's will.. from a bacteria up to something as powerful as a black hole.
Although they might not realized it at all.... but it doesn't matter.

That's being said; a PERSON or GROUP OF PEOPLE who CLAIMED that he / she is / they are the sole representative of the True God CAN be "Disobeyed" and "Be Warred Against". And their 'claiming' action is also in accordance to God's will and plan.

God was, is and will always bless everyone and everything... regardless of their social identity, form or species.

Peace

good_logic

jafar, GOD does not have negative traits. GOD may be disappointed at some folks not seeking His mercy and forgiveness, but His system is set in stones
Each soul deserves what it gets through their own choices.
GOD s justice as well as mercy are also part of His will and plan.
God will neither gain nor loose from souls wickedness or goodness . GOD has no needs.
Or do you think GOD gains from those who believe or disbelieve?
Lucky are those created. and more lucky are those who choose GOD s system/kingdom.
jafar brother, you are mixing your books and interpretations of GOD s words. Your understanding of Qoran, in my opinion, comes from men s words.
GOD bless you.
Peace.