Quran
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https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvqgVS8KVJA
A really good presentation on all the issues we've discussed here. We were already aware of consonants and words being different between different versions of the Quran, but this discusses the Sana manuscripts in detail. He also talks about the name Mohammed.
Whatever your view I strongly recommend that you watch the the entire 45 mins.
Also discussed is the problematic nature of understanding/translating the scripture, considering the vowel markings and dots were added at a much later date.
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Doens't Sherif Gabir supports the Zionist regime (Israel)?
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Native Arabs do not need dots or vowel signs to read an Arabic script. There were meant for non-Arabic speaking people.
Quran was a verbal as well as written transmission by Arabic speaking natives without dependence upon dots or vowels.
It was memorized by them in addition to writing and verbal transmission did not need any dots or vowels.
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Native Arabs do not need dots or vowel signs to read an Arabic script. There were meant for non-Arabic speaking people.
Quran was a verbal as well as written transmission by Arabic speaking natives without dependence upon dots or vowels.
It was memorized by them in addition to writing and verbal transmission did not need any dots or vowels.
Quite right.
Specially the part for non Arabic speakers, very well noted. The printed Qur'an has all the phonetical signs that any writing could have. Like if anyone wanted to recite, just following the printed Qur'an, could do it. That is not even so with those written languages which write all the letters suposedly pronounced. All the phonetical aspects are not carried by the printed writing in languages in general, but the printed Qur'an marks all those things, not merely the morphological aspects, but all phonetic aspects.
Salaam
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Native Arabs do not need dots or vowel signs to read an Arabic script. There were meant for non-Arabic speaking people.
Quran was a verbal as well as written transmission by Arabic speaking natives without dependence upon dots or vowels.
It was memorized by them in addition to writing and verbal transmission did not need any dots or vowels.
Bold Not only that but also a divine revelation of Allah/God/The Creator (SWTAY)
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Quite right.
Specially the part for non Arabic speakers, very well noted. The printed Qur'an has all the phonetical signs that any writing could have. Like if anyone wanted to recite, just following the printed Qur'an, could do it. That is not even so with those written languages which write all the letters suposedly pronounced. All the phonetical aspects are not carried by the printed writing in languages in general, but the printed Qur'an marks all those things, not merely the morphological aspects, but all phonetic aspects.
Salaam
Actually Saudi Arabia also print Quran in Arabic without any vowel signs for Arab and they read them easily. I saw it when I visited Saudia few years ago.
After learning Arabic even I can read Arabic text without vowel signs with few mistakes, although I am not Arab.
Salaam
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Actually Saudi Arabia also print Quran in Arabic without any vowel signs for Arab and they read them easily. I saw it when I visited Saudia few years ago.
After learning Arabic even I can read Arabic text without vowel signs with few mistakes, although I am not Arab.
Salaam
Bold You Pakistani? I'm 93% Kurdish, 5% Arab, 1% Khazar or Ashkenazi and 1% North African (Possibly Berber)
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Just wondering why you selected Pakistani out of about 200 countries?
Ah it was at the time was the only country i thought. Now i think again maybe Indian or Indonesian.
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Canadian if you insist to know.
Ah okay. Now shall we continue on topic?
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Native Arabs do not need dots or vowel signs to read an Arabic script. There were meant for non-Arabic speaking people.
Quran was a verbal as well as written transmission by Arabic speaking natives without dependence upon dots or vowels.
It was memorized by them in addition to writing and verbal transmission did not need any dots or vowels.
Internal explicit evidence negates the palavers of absence of vowels.
http//haqeeqat.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/019.%20Maryam%20Siddiqa/19.97.gif
The statement that Qur?n is rendered facilitative has the value of a claim - to say, without proof or evidence, that something is true. Since the statement is about a book which is meant for reading and comprehending, the statement will be true if the book facilitates the reader both in its reading and comprehension. This is the extent of the statement. If the critical reader finds the statement true to its extent it will obviously highlight the value, quality and importance of the book whereby he will become sincere and reverent for it.
Without revealing the vowels on the text no book can be considered facilitative for anybody including the most well read Arab.
http//haqeeqat.pk/FacilitatorHow.htm
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Internal explicit evidence negates the palavers of absence of vowels.
http//haqeeqat.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/019.%20Maryam%20Siddiqa/19.97.gif
The statement that Qur?n is rendered facilitative has the value of a claim - to say, without proof or evidence, that something is true. Since the statement is about a book which is meant for reading and comprehending, the statement will be true if the book facilitates the reader both in its reading and comprehension. This is the extent of the statement. If the critical reader finds the statement true to its extent it will obviously highlight the value, quality and importance of the book whereby he will become sincere and reverent for it.
Without revealing the vowels on the text no book can be considered facilitative for anybody including the most well read Arab.
http//haqeeqat.pk/FacilitatorHow.htm
Was the Quran revealed as a written book?
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Some points relate to common sense.
We articulate a word after having listened it. We learn writing a word after having seen it written.
Brother Mazhar
Why you get irritated in your discussions? Masha'a Allah you are doing your best to convey the message. Sometimes your understanding will be challenged and you should be patient enough to reply to the challenges unless you consider yourself infallible.
Having said that my common sense tells me that the prophet received the Quran and then conveyed it to his companions verbally and also dictated it to the scribes. The companions memorized it in their everyday language hence they did not need any written vowels.
Vowels were added later to help non-Quraish pronounce it in Quraish dialect.
Brother noon has posted copies of earliest Quran many times and they prove that there were no vowels used like we have them today.
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Brother Mazhar
Why you get irritated in your discussions? Masha'a Allah you are doing your best to convey the message. Sometimes your understanding will be challenged and you should be patient enough to reply to the challenges unless you consider yourself infallible.
Having said that my common sense tells me that the prophet received the Quran and then conveyed it to his companions verbally and also dictated it to the scribes. The companions memorized it in their everyday language hence they did not need any written vowels.
Vowels were added later to help non-Quraish pronounce it in Quraish dialect.
Brother noon has posted copies of earliest Quran many times and they prove that there were no vowels used like we have them today.
No irritation. I just put basic things that need to be remembered because scholars do forget basic things. And passive readers seldom recall basic realities which help reflecting.
You have not read the main post link. Even Arabs could not get any accurate information if breaking news were released to them in writing without vowels. Please see the article and correct the perception based on conjectures.
An excerpt from the link article
But I am sure an extensively repeated palaver might divert attention of many of us from reflecting and appreciating these facts. It is widely circulated that originally vowels were not present in the text of Qur?n and that a http//haqeeqat.pk/roots/Tabweeb/0004.%20Kitab%20Kaaf%20Ta%20Ba/14.gif scribe used to write upon taking dictation from the exalted Messenger. They have no concrete evidence to substantiate their assertions except hearsay.
It seems that those who thought and spread this conjecture were not even aware as to what is reading; what is the peculiarity of Arabic language; what is the difference between consonant and a vowel, and what processes are involved in reading and comprehending a written text.
The written text is only symbols, signs, visible marks and letters and consonants of the alphabet of a language representing its basic speech sounds. Speech sounds of individual consonants have no proposition in them. Each consonant of an alphabet has distinct sound and distinct place of articulation in the mouth. Sound wave of a consonant is produced by the vibration of vocal cords which arrives in the mouth as buzzy sound.
Man then articulates sounds produced by vibration of vocal cord by adjustments in the vocal tract to emit it as a syllable. The auditory distinguishing of the vowels depends on the precise shape and volume of the oral cavity; the region of the vocal tract between the larynx and the opening of the mouth. Main organ involved in adjusting the shape and volume of the oral cavity is the tongue.
http//haqeeqat.pk/FacilitatorHow.htm
