If Qur'an solves the differences, then why so many interpretations?
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Salaam everyone,
God says in the Qur'an-
O you who have believed, obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority among you. And if you disagree over anything, refer it to Allah and the Messenger, if you should believe in Allah and the Last Day.We can see we have so much disagreements on very simple issues like salat,fasting,hajj,zakat etc.
But God says to refer to Him and the Messenger if we have disagreements.But, even if we refer to God and His Messenger, still we have lots of disagreements.
Again Allah says-
Then do they not reflect upon the Qur'an? If it had been from other than Allah , they would have found within it much Ikhtilaaf (disagreements).Here God says if the Qur'an was revealed by other than Allah we would have much Disagreements.
But have you realized that we do have a lot of disagreements with each other even if we respect the disagreements. The fact is, we do have disagreements even if we refer it to Allah and His Messenger.
What's your thought on this?
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Salaam everyone,
God says in the Qur'an-
O you who have believed, obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority among you. And if you disagree over anything, refer it to Allah and the Messenger, if you should believe in Allah and the Last Day.What's your thought on this?
peace upon you! Are we discussing in English or Arabic, why not translate ?
482 do so not they reflecting the Qur?an (recitation) and in case be from near/with other than the god surely found they of in it ikhtilafan/differences of (single occurrence) much of (3+)
https//s10.postimg.org/tkdaofu95/Ahlwardt_305_ch4v81-89.jpg
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We can see we have so much disagreements on very simple issues like salat,fasting,hajj,zakat etc.
These simple issues changed a progressive deen into a static religion. The result was that scientists and thinkers were replaced by ritualistic religious leaders.
Again Allah says-
Then do they not reflect upon the Qur'an? If it had been from other than Allah , they would have found within it much Ikhtilaaf (disagreements).Here God says if the Qur'an was revealed by other than Allah we would have much Disagreements.
But have you realized that we do have a lot of disagreements with each other even if we respect the disagreements. The fact is, we do have disagreements even if we refer it to Allah and His Messenger.
What's your thought on this?
Differences are because people do not reflect upon Quran without interference of hadith and centuries old scholarly interpretations.
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These simple issues changed a progressive deen into a static religion. The result was that scientists and thinkers were replaced by ritualistic religious leaders.
Differences are because people do not reflect upon Quran without interference of hadith and centuries old scholarly interpretations.
Just letting you know, not all scientists & thinkers are honest & truthful. Not criticizing you by the way.
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Just letting you know, not all scientists & thinkers are honest & truthful. Not criticizing you by the way.
I meant that rational and logical thinking was taken away by force from muslim nation by hadithi mullahs forcing them to adopt a ritualistic religion.
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Salaam everyone.
It's not only about differences with hadith. It's about differences on Quran itself.
My question was if Qur'an claims that if it was from God, then why there is so much disagreements over it? according to
And if we have differences and disagreements, God told to refer it to God and His Messenger, according to
So why still we have so much disagreements?
All the people claiming to be referring to God and His Messenger but still no one agrees even in the basic things.
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It is not a matter of the Qur'an, it is a matter of us.
There is an aya which says that only the pure can touch the Qur'an. If we take it without pondering on it, we might say, ok, nobody is 100% nobody will ever touch it.
I think that this aya is very true and very wise. The Qur'an also calls upon us to purify. In the same proportion that we are pure we will touch the Qur'an, that is, we will realise the Qur'an as if it was our flesh, as real.
We all are different in purity, therefore we will get from Qur'an what we can get. Some people will not get anything at all except even get worse, because they are not purified, even a little of their own vanity, meanness, hardness of heart... Those will get worse, because they are nto willing and the Qur'an points too clearly to the fact that they are not willing.
Others are too coarse, to deluded... we have all our impurities and that reflects.
Or again as I have said in another thread, we all hove our own strengths and weaknesses and therefore we do nto get the same result from our endeavours, be it with the Qur'an or with anything else. The Qur'an is inmense, universal, unlimited, therefore far more scope to differ and be varied.
That is nto a problem, our problem should be to purify, to know ourselves so that we detect our own impurities.
Salaam
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Sister huruf, some people look at rules and regulations about every subject and way of life, enforced by a false authority, and call it an agreement!!!!!
For example Traditional Islam? Do all participants agree? Are we blind? They are even fighting each other publicly and privately? How can you call that an agreement?
As for agreeing on Qoran, surely we can clearly see that the only agreement there is to "abandon Qoran" all together ?
Brother armom,I honestly fail to get your point! Think about it, have another look at those you think they are agreeing on Qoran.
GOD bless you both.
Peace -
Sister huruf, some people look at rules and regulations about every subject and way of life, enforced by a false authority, and call it an agreement!!!!!
For example Traditional Islam? Do all participants agree? Are we blind? They are even fighting each other publicly and privately? How can you call that an agreement?
As for agreeing on Qoran, surely we can clearly see that the only agreement there is to "abandon Qoran" all together ?
Brother armom,I honestly fail to get your point! Think about it, have another look at those you think they are agreeing on Qoran.
GOD bless you both.
PeaceSalaam brother,
You haven't understood my question.I am not telling who agreed on the Quran and who is not..
Read the follow AYAT closely-
God says in the Qur'an-
O you who have believed, obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority among you. And if you disagree over anything, refer it to Allah and the Messenger, if you should believe in Allah and the Last Day.We can see we have so much disagreements on very simple issues like salat,fasting,hajj,zakat etc.
But God says to refer to Him and the Messenger if we have disagreements.But, even if we refer to God and His Messenger, still we have lots of disagreements.
Again Allah says-
Then do they not reflect upon the Qur'an? If it had been from other than Allah , they would have found within it much Ikhtilaaf (disagreements).So that's my point, you rightly said
"Do all participants agree? Are we blind? They are even fighting each other publicly and privately? How can you call that an agreement?"This is what I mean, that if Qur'an says that if you differ refer it to God and His messenger and if the Quran was from other than God there would have been much disagreements.
So we see now a days whether it's traditional Islam or Quran Alone Islam, in all Islam there is disagreements. So why do we still have disagreements between us if the Quran is from God as told in and
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Salaam brother,
You haven't understood my question.I am not telling who agreed on the Quran and who is not..
Read the follow AYAT closely-
God says in the Qur'an-
O you who have believed, obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority among you. And if you disagree over anything, refer it to Allah and the Messenger, if you should believe in Allah and the Last Day.We can see we have so much disagreements on very simple issues like salat,fasting,hajj,zakat etc.
But God says to refer to Him and the Messenger if we have disagreements.But, even if we refer to God and His Messenger, still we have lots of disagreements.
Again Allah says-
Then do they not reflect upon the Qur'an? If it had been from other than Allah , they would have found within it much Ikhtilaaf (disagreements).So that's my point, you rightly said
This is what I mean, that if Qur'an says that if you differ refer it to God and His messenger and if the Quran was from other than God there would have been much disagreements.So we see now a days whether it's traditional Islam or Quran Alone Islam, in all Islam there is disagreements. So why do we still have disagreements between us if the Quran is from God as told in and
Salaam, armom,
Aya 4.59 refers to practical, concret matters, on which must be acted. it is not a question of how we see this or understand that. Therefore refer the matter to God, logically, as with anything, we must be conscious that we are dependent and pawns of God, and that we must follow his laws, then follow or obey the Prophet, when he was alive, since he was the authority, the same as we submit unresolved conflicts in society going to courts, and there is the folowing part to the prophets, those charged in you community of dealing precisely with the kinds of things in ehich we are not able to reach an agreement. In act it amounts to say seek the remedy that the law provides for.
It is clear that we all want and should want to solve our differences always amiably without resort to higher authorities like courts of different kinds, but where we are unable to we resort to arbitration or any other courts, or if it is an administrative matter to the administration if it can be solved at that level.
But in things like prayer or not prayer, we do not need to resort to anybody or anything, escept to God, and if in this life we reach no agreement, no problem, God already says that He will clear everything when we come to Him after our present life, so no problem or mistery there. I, at least, do not see it. If we must act upon something, follow the law, if not leave to God, or whatever youc an do on your own and ocllective efforts during life.
Of course that goes that laws must be perfected if we find them wanting. That is why we must keep resorting to the Qur'an so that we can apply its wisdom to society at all times.
On the other hand while we never can all agree on everything, It is plain that to perfect laws is perfectly possible, even if it is not by compelte unanimity. Most of us agree on many things with many other people even if en each thing with different people, so in fact we can reach agreements for the sake of the functionning of society. There is in this aspect a lot of benefit that we can get out of understanding the Qur'an and purifying ourselves. Sometimes some people are way ahead of others in undestanding something. sometimes back. We must strive, all our lives for the sake of our society and our life after death. But the disagreement a do not see in any way as a problem. To come to agreements, there must be first disagreement, without disagreement there can be no agreement on something improved.
Salaam
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Salaam, armom,
Aya 4.59 refers to practical, concret matters, on which must be acted. it is not a question of how we see this or understand that. Therefore refer the matter to God, logically, as with anything, we must be conscious that we are dependent and pawns of God, and that we must follow his laws, then follow or obey the Prophet, when he was alive, since he was the authority, the same as we submit unresolved conflicts in society going to courts, and there is the folowing part to the prophets, those charged in you community of dealing precisely with the kinds of things in ehich we are not able to reach an agreement. In act it amounts to say seek the remedy that the law provides for.
It is clear that we all want and should want to solve our differences always amiably without resort to higher authorities like courts of different kinds, but where we are unable to we resort to arbitration or any other courts, or if it is an administrative matter to the administration if it can be solved at that level.
But in things like prayer or not prayer, we do not need to resort to anybody or anything, escept to God, and if in this life we reach no agreement, no problem, God already says that He will clear everything when we come to Him after our present life, so no problem or mistery there. I, at least, do not see it. If we must act upon something, follow the law, if not leave to God, or whatever youc an do on your own and ocllective efforts during life.
Of course that goes that laws must be perfected if we find them wanting. That is why we must keep resorting to the Qur'an so that we can apply its wisdom to society at all times.
On the other hand while we never can all agree on everything, It is plain that to perfect laws is perfectly possible, even if it is not by compelte unanimity. Most of us agree on many things with many other people even if en each thing with different people, so in fact we can reach agreements for the sake of the functionning of society. There is in this aspect a lot of benefit that we can get out of understanding the Qur'an and purifying ourselves. Sometimes some people are way ahead of others in undestanding something. sometimes back. We must strive, all our lives for the sake of our society and our life after death. But the disagreement a do not see in any way as a problem. To come to agreements, there must be first disagreement, without disagreement there can be no agreement on something improved.
Salaam
Salaam huruf,
In general point of view, I agree with what you are saying. BUT, I am asking in the perspective of Qur'an and not our understanding.Please read this AYAH carefully-
Then do they not reflect upon the Qur'an? If it had been from other than Allah , they would have found within it much Ikhtilaaf (disagreements).It clearly says that if this book was written by someone else and not GOD we would have so much Disagreements.
Today, we do have a lots of differences among us. And yes, how to pray, how to fast, things like that are disagreements.
Means, we have disagreements even in the basics.
So, according to Surah Nisa, Verse 82, the Qur'an should have given us the details so that we don't disagree on simple issues.
As for this AYAH-
O you who have believed, obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority among you. And if you disagree over anything, refer it to Allah and the Messenger, if you should believe in Allah and the Last Day.I read somewhere in this forum, one brother was saying Quran is a timeless book and every AYAH is applicable even today.
Then why do we say that this ayah can't be a part of today because messenger is not with us now?Thank you for your further explanations )
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Salaam huruf,
In general point of view, I agree with what you are saying. BUT, I am asking in the perspective of Qur'an and not our understanding.Please read this AYAH carefully-
Then do they not reflect upon the Qur'an? If it had been from other than Allah , they would have found within it much Ikhtilaaf (disagreements).It clearly says that if this book was written by someone else and not GOD we would have so much Disagreements.
Today, we do have a lots of differences among us. And yes, how to pray, how to fast, things like that are disagreements.
Means, we have disagreements even in the basics.
So, according to Surah Nisa, Verse 82, the Qur'an should have given us the details so that we don't disagree on simple issues.
As for this AYAH-
O you who have believed, obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority among you. And if you disagree over anything, refer it to Allah and the Messenger, if you should believe in Allah and the Last Day.I read somewhere in this forum, one brother was saying Quran is a timeless book and every AYAH is applicable even today.
Then why do we say that this ayah can't be a part of today because messenger is not with us now?Thank you for your further explanations
When you say
I can't really see what is the problem . There is no contradiction in the Qur'an particularly as you say from the point of view of God. Myself I can't say that I have found contradictions.
So if the contradictions or differences as you say are perceived by some people all I can say is that they should examine more carefully what they are taking for grandes as previous to what they read.
One example
In previous centuries in Europe the maritl authority, that is, the autority of yhe husband over the wife, was taken for granted. In order to doubt it you would have to have been conscious of it being cuestionable, ut the thing is that it never occurred to people that there could be any question about it. Anything ever that would be read by them, including the Qur'an took for granted that marital authority was ever in force and presence, that is no world where it was not so was conceived.
Of course today if we look at the Qur'an we won't find it beause we do nto expect to find it. Therefore there would be contradictions in human understanding int he Qur'an, but not in the Qur'an itself.As tot he other aya, obey the prophet, see that the aya does not finish there it says obey the prophet and those in charge amongst you. In fact it is the same thing, the prophet was in charge among the people then, today there are other people in charge. The prophet is not going to solve anything today, chose in charge today should do it. It cannot be more straightforward or logical, it is what anyody with any common sense understands. If you have a problem with traffic, you follow what the Traffic authorities, appointed for that, would dispose.
I do not know why all this means such a problem for you, or looks as such a problem for you. May be you take "difference" as being the same as contradiction? I don't know and I do not mean this as a criticism, I just try to understand why it is such a problem because I mayself cannot see it. May be I am not understanding you or I am missing something.
Salaam
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Please read this AYAH carefully-
Then do they not reflect upon the Qur'an? If it had been from other than Allah , they would have found within it much Ikhtilaaf (disagreements).It clearly says that if this book was written by someone else and not GOD we would have so much Disagreements.
482 do so not they reflecting the qur?an/recitation and in case be from near/with other than the god surely found they of fhi/in it ikhtilafan/divergences of much of (i.e. many occurrences or 3+)
peace - reflect carefully no word "we" in verse, refers to within "it" i.e. "other" qur'an.
ikhtilafan -- with trailing alif; likewise only single occurrence of word "in" qur'an.
divergences of -- alterations, bifurcations, changes, conflicts, departures, deviations, differences, digressions, disagreements, disparities, dissimilarities, dividings, forkings, incompatibilities, interests, mismatches, opinions, partings, separations, shifts, strayings, variances, variations, etc.
see manuscript Berlin State Library ~85% of total text dated 662-765 CE (95.4%)
Berlin, Staatsbibliothek Wetzstein II 1913 (Ahlwardt 305)
http//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/4/vers/82?handschrift=163https//s10.postimg.org/eo5wfy5u1/Ahlwardt_305_ch4v81-89.jpg
btw, here's older manuscript dated 606-652 CE (95.4%)
Gotthelf-Bergstr??er-Archiv Kairo, Nationalbibliothek
Cairo, National Library
http//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/4/vers/82?handschrift=73https//s10.postimg.org/6ez4mbcyh/ch4v80-89_Gotthelf-_Bergstr_er.jpg
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So, according to Surah Nisa, Verse 82, the Qur'an should have given us the details so that we don't disagree on simple issues.
Brother are you trying to say Allah ran out of words to give details?
As for this AYAH-
O you who have believed, obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority among you. And if you disagree over anything, refer it to Allah and the Messenger, if you should believe in Allah and the Last Day.I read somewhere in this forum, one brother was saying Quran is a timeless book and every AYAH is applicable even today.
Then why do we say that this ayah can't be a part of today because messenger is not with us now?Yes brother this book for all times. Have you reflected upon this ayat 567
(
O Messenger, convey that which has been revealed to you from your Rabb, and if you do not, then you have not conveyed His message. And Allah will protect you from the people. Indeed, Allah does not guide the disbelieving people.
Now think about what was revealed to the prophet and what he conveyed in his lifetime. If you believe that it was Quran then are we not following Allah and His prophet by following Quran at any given time?
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When you say
I can't really see what is the problem . There is no contradiction in the Qur'an particularly as you say from the point of view of God. Myself I can't say that I have found contradictions.
So if the contradictions or differences as you say are perceived by some people all I can say is that they should examine more carefully what they are taking for grandes as previous to what they read.
One example
In previous centuries in Europe the maritl authority, that is, the autority of yhe husband over the wife, was taken for granted. In order to doubt it you would have to have been conscious of it being cuestionable, ut the thing is that it never occurred to people that there could be any question about it. Anything ever that would be read by them, including the Qur'an took for granted that marital authority was ever in force and presence, that is no world where it was not so was conceived.
Of course today if we look at the Qur'an we won't find it beause we do nto expect to find it. Therefore there would be contradictions in human understanding int he Qur'an, but not in the Qur'an itself.As tot he other aya, obey the prophet, see that the aya does not finish there it says obey the prophet and those in charge amongst you. In fact it is the same thing, the prophet was in charge among the people then, today there are other people in charge. The prophet is not going to solve anything today, chose in charge today should do it. It cannot be more straightforward or logical, it is what anyody with any common sense understands. If you have a problem with traffic, you follow what the Traffic authorities, appointed for that, would dispose.
I do not know why all this means such a problem for you, or looks as such a problem for you. May be you take "difference" as being the same as contradiction? I don't know and I do not mean this as a criticism, I just try to understand why it is such a problem because I mayself cannot see it. May be I am not understanding you or I am missing something.
Salaam
Salaam huruf, thanks for your time and explanation.
That still doesn't answer my question though.
My question is IF God already told us to refer to God and His messenger if we are in disagreement, then WHY do we still differ?
You see, we will not agree on "HOW TO PRAY?" so that's a difference of course between us.IF, we refer it to GOD (that is the Quran), still we have differences because some will argue the salat is physically done while others says it's not physical. So that's a huge difference according to me. Or you have to come up with a new definition of the word "difference"
If it was really not a issue, it would have been very simple right? Like, when God says to refer it to HIM, so when we refer it to HIM we still find confusions and not the exact answer.
Suppose, we are confused on SALAT. IF it was simple, God would tell us clearly that "Salat means this and that" and not use words of confusions..
NOTE-
I am not asking these because of doubt or something. I need to present my counter arguments. It might help all of us to learn something from each other. ) -
Greetings!
Like any other scientific or serious discussion, when we ask a question, we better explain it clearly and define the words we use in the context.
We each of us individually see things differently, and think differently, because our understanding of matters are different, some of us are more experienced and some of us less equipped. A simple example is that I am a color blind person, and around 10% of population have color blindness. So surely I always have difference or disagreement with 90% of people when it comes to pick a color that I think it is green. So what is my solutions? always refer to someone whom I think is not color blind.
We always have differences / disagreements on many matters, if not over every single matter. We also have differences / disagreements with ourselves over time. We can think in any way we like. That is our freedom. We have different concepts about God, religion, and every single matter. The reasoning itself requires matters to be different. To understand a dynamic (cause / rule / law) a scientist needs to be presented with different observations. Only by comparing differences, one is then able to carry out deduction and reasoning. My understanding is that Quran does not ask anyone not to have an disagreement, but always ask people to refer to someone else to obtain different opinion / judgement, so the matter could be understood better, from different perspective. Such as we don't know killing a person is bad or good until we know who killed whom for what. Same goes for eating pork, we need to know why. We should have all the necessary facts to make a right judgement, and everyone else should be given an opportunity to present his/her differing opinion.
We have disagreements over matters, but it does not mean matters themselves are in disagreements. All disagreements are over our understanding of matters, not between matters. One usually does not really make logical error in reasoning. Most of the errors are rooted from our understanding of matters, they are conceptual errors. One should ask the right question to obtain the right answer.
'If Quran solves the differences, then why so many interpretations?' is itself is wrong question. Quran is guidance and advice for mankind, it does not solve any problem. People do the interpretations based on their understanding of the facts selected by themselves. Hence any disagreements as result of different understandings of people and based on their own selection of facts, should not be attributed to Quran.
So your question is the result of your not differentiating the understanding of Quran with Quran itself. Over the centuries people have been following their understanding or someone else's understanding of Quran. So we can safely say that each Muslim follows their own version of Islam. I think we have no other way. We can only follow what we know and what we understand of. And because God has created the earth and heaven in truth, we are rewarded/punished in this life for our actions which based upon our understanding. We can never be able to have the whole truth, even if we put the understanding of whole mankind together, but we can always have partial truth. We should always be aware of this fact, and should always be ready challenge our understanding of Quran and understanding of life once there is a conflict between them.
God created the earth and heaven and God created the Quran. Once we understand God is one and everything else is created by God, then we cannot be 100% sure about anything else. So we can compare our understanding of Quran to our understanding of life/nature/earth/heaven to obtain better understanding and learn from our punishments/rewards.
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Salaam brother,
I hope you are fine )We have disagreements over matters, but it does not mean matters themselves are in disagreements. All disagreements are over our understanding of matters, not between matters. One usually does not really make logical error in reasoning. Most of the errors are rooted from our understanding of matters, they are conceptual errors. One should ask the right question to obtain the right answer.
Again, I've given the AYAT from the Quran itself to proof my claim. I would like you to give me some proof from the Quran itself to proof that point because.
Then do they not reflect upon the Qur'an? If it had been from other than Allah , they would have found within it much Ikhtilaaf (disagreements).
This AYAT is clearly saying that if Quran was written by someone else, they would have found in it (Quran) much disagreements.
See the wordings used. It says "MUCH DISAGREEMENTS" (IKHTILAFAN KATHIRA). That means, we can have some disagreements and not MUCH according to that AYAT.
So if we had SOME difference it would be okay on that. BUT it says "MUCH DISAGREEMENTS" and yes we do have much disagreements on the basics.
'If Quran solves the differences, then why so many interpretations?' is itself is wrong question. Quran is guidance and advice for mankind, it does not solve any problem. People do the interpretations based on their understanding of the facts selected by themselves. Hence any disagreements as result of different understandings of people and based on their own selection of facts, should not be attributed to Quran.
Why would Quran use words which we don't understand or difficult to understand or agree while it says
All the praises and thanks be to Allah, Who has sent down to His slave the Book, and has not placed therein any crookedness.
So it says there is no CROOKEDNESS in the BOOK but yet we can't agree on simple matters?
Thanks for your time and effort! )
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Just a comment. You are suggesting that referring God and referring Quran is same thing. Do you think God and Quran is same?
I think Quran is from God, referring to God and Messager is not same thing as referring to Quran.What's your explanation on that?
I've been seeing over and over again that everyone is referring to God means referring to Quran because you can't refer it God as He is not present physically with you to solve the differences.
