AlFathia

The_Sardar

Please cite a reference from an accepted Grammar book for this construct of . Nothing in any language that is said is meaningless. What is the meaning of ? Also cite another reference from Quran for ?
what is the meaning of this root. What is the meaning of all these alphabet together as written? How do you get to these meanings. Give linguistically explanation without using a reference to hearsay, either be of Hadith/history or any other traditional accounts?

You did check out my last comment did you?

Salam/Peace Manny is not here but i think i have unknowingly showed the answer in page 8 in this discussion topic, check my 77th reply.

bkanwar2

You did check out my last comment did you?

You mean to say this
https//www.almaany.com/en/dict/ar-en/%D9%84%D9%87/?c=Islamic

So I should accept Manny and his website as an authority? Where explanation ignores all linguistic rules establish centuries ago by Arab linguists. This is clearly an apologetic response and explanation to defend tradition. This is what really is a circular logic and an appeal to a faulty authority fallacy in arguments.

Why can't he answer my questions in simple English here?

The_Sardar

You mean to say this
https//www.almaany.com/en/dict/ar-en/%D9%84%D9%87/?c=Islamic

So I should accept Manny and his website as an authority? Where explanation ignores all linguistic rules establish centuries ago by Arab linguists. This is clearly an apologetic response and explanation to defend tradition. This is what really is a circular logic and an appeal to a faulty authority fallacy in arguments.

Why can't he answer my questions in simple English here?

Where did i say to accept Manny & the website as an authority? My point was to hopefully answer your question.

The_Sardar

So I should accept Manny and his website as an authority? Where explanation ignores all linguistic rules establish centuries ago by Arab linguists. This is clearly an apologetic response and explanation to defend tradition. This is what really is a circular logic and an appeal to a faulty authority fallacy in arguments.

Why can't he answer my questions in simple English here?

Which Arab linguists? If i recall correctly, most of the linguists of Arabic language is Persian. If i made a mistake then please correct me.

bkanwar2

Which Arab linguists? If i recall correctly, most of the linguists of Arabic language is Persian. If i made a mistake then please correct me.

First of all, does one need to be born in a given lineage to be able to become and expert in the language of that lineage?

Please try to read about History of Arabic linguistic tradition.

The_Sardar

First of all, does one need to be born in a given lineage to be able to become and expert in the language of that lineage?

Please try to read about History of Arabic linguistic tradition.

Any books of PDF that you know? Make sure it's non biased of course.

The_Sardar

First of all, does one need to be born in a given lineage to be able to become and expert in the language of that lineage?

Actually no but that wasn't my point. You said Arab linguists, i thought you were referring to the linguistics experts in Arabic language who were of Arab descent.

bkanwar2

Any books of PDF that you know? Make sure it's non biased of course.

For starter look through following.

https//eprints.soas.ac.uk/5814/1/Shah.pdf

bkanwar2

Bring me evidence of your illogical "not an object of worship".

is very common in Arabic, I don't require to cite evidence for something which is common Arabic knowledge.

I common knowledge should be even easier to cite a reference, shouldn't it?

The_Sardar

For starter look through following.

https//eprints.soas.ac.uk/5814/1/Shah.pdf

There is also this

chrome-extension//oemmndcbldboiebfnladdacbdfmadadm/https//www.alislam.org/topics/arabic/The%20source%20of%20all%20the%20languages.pdf

chrome-extension//oemmndcbldboiebfnladdacbdfmadadm/https//www.alislam.org/topics/arabic/English%20traced%20to%20Arabic.pdf

Keep in mind this was made by an Ahmadiyyan sectarian but you can ignore his pages on the Ahmadiyya sect and move on to linguistic pages.

bkanwar2

Open the writing called Quran and look yourself. It doesn't require any presentation, if you master Arabic. I don't do any work for you with your attitude.

Please remember when one present an argument about a claim. One should be ready to back it up with evidence to support ones claim. As without evidence it just a claim. With good evidence it might get to the level of knowledge.

Thanks for interacting anyways. Best of luck to you in your future endeavors.

The_Sardar

Please remember when one present an argument about a claim. One should be ready to back it up with evidence to support ones claim. As without evidence it just a claim. With good evidence it might get to the level of knowledge.

Thanks for interacting anyways. Best of luck to you in your future endeavors.

Not being rude but you should check The Quran to for yourself. Because there are fellow muslims saying that The Quran has its own dictionary within. Again not being rude.

The_Sardar

So for me A'qum Al-salawat means to follow straight or firmly follow, or something along the lines. The often occuring Wa atawoo al-zakat adds "and be brought to purification".

I'm not religious at all, I'm not worshiping and I'm not even worshiping myself. I don't expect Quran to be a religious book either but something which helps me grow personally, like a kind of self-development guide. I do believe in a supernatural realm with some difficult-to-fathom core which is usually called God, but God's so much more than a primitive deity who's super-instinctive and who is gonna torture everyone who's too blind to see the truth or who choose to believe in themselves and their own ability.

Dude i agree with you. Allah/God is so much better than that. The religious or traditionalist are framing our Creator into something ridiculous. And i agree with about you Salat. Manny_E are you my twin?! yay D

good_logic

Peace Manny_E.
It all depends what is intelligence and how does one get it?

Is it productive to create humans that corrupt the earth and create hell on it? Yet humans are on earth (To some it is like hell) and living on it!
Who s to say what is hell that is going to be created and what creation/s will be on it?

As for your salat ,make sure you prepare for it(56) and you get your timing right? Or may be there is no preparation for it or timing?
GOD bless you.
Peace.

good_logic

Peace Manny_E.

May be some souls need another hell to keep developing? If one is not ready ,we may speculate, but GOD knows exactly what to do with the souls He created.

As for your understanding of salat and its preparation, you are entitled to it.

Although salat is not as important as being a good soul and doing good deeds my take on it differs from yours..

If that is wishful thinking of me from your part, my salat is helping me( Or rather my Lord s help when connecting with Him does the helping!) with my shortcomings of the animal body.
Growing our soul is a pain, but with pain there is gain.
For me, being intelligent and claiming /thinking we are intelligent are two different things. Sometimes our intelligence is our downfall/Satan?
But that is life brother.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Makaveli

Dude i agree with you. Allah/God is so much better than that. The religious or traditionalist are framing our Creator into something ridiculous. And i agree with about you Salat. Manny_E are you my twin?! yay

Hello Sardar. What do you think about liars and the two-faced people? Do you know if Quran speaks of those types of people? More importantly, would YOU associate yourself with liars and two-faced people? I ask because you seem to have a good opinion of the Quran's message.

By the way the above posts by good logic are disgusting from the amount of traditional dogma in it. yuck

But there is something in this thread more repulsive than good logic's posts.

The_Sardar

Hello Sardar. What do you think about liars and the two-faced people? Do you know if Quran speaks of those types of people? More importantly, would YOU associate yourself with liars and two-faced people? I ask because you seem to have a good opinion of the Quran's message.

By the way the above posts by good logic are disgusting from the amount of traditional dogma in it. yuck

But there is something in this thread more repulsive than good logic's posts.

Well i don't like liars, especially those who make lies against our Creator which will cause confusion and harm. I wan't to be guided by the Divine Revelation/The Quran. Bold Why are you calling Good Logic disgusting? I find a bit odd and honestly a bit unfair.

Makaveli

Well i don't like liars, especially those who make lies against our Creator which will cause confusion and harm. I wan't to be guided by the Divine Revelation/The Quran. Bold Why are you calling Good Logic disgusting? I find a bit odd and honestly a bit unfair.

Thank you for your reply. It is odd then, since you called Manny_E your possible twin i.e. a counterpart. But I would not call you a liar and two-faced, because I believe you are not. This is why I was curious how would you trust a liar and treat him as your possible counterpart?

I called good logic's posts disgusting because I genuinely believe and have strong foundation to believe so that Quran's message excludes the rituals and other religious prerequisites that he believes are compulsive in his life. To be more precise, his posts are disgusting because

a) this is an example of dogmatic thinking of his and lack of critical mind, which I personally possess to a very high extent. I believe it is natural to feel disgusted at something which is a complete opposite of you, in a negative sense of course, in case that opposite spreads negativity. But then again, it is my subjective opinion of his belief;

b) him citing various verses to back his argument implies that the particular translation of his Qur'an, i.e. a traditional one I suppose, contains all the answers he needs, which is also not true and hypocritical. This is because particular 'salat' problem in the envrionment outside of the so called 'Sunna of the Prophet' contaisn hundreds of theories. How can good logic be sure that his particular understanding is a correct one?

c) his thinking implies that if a book is from God, then it surely is meant for all of the mankind. What about people outside of Quranic, Islamic, or Semitic culture overall, say Amish people or Vanuatu people who might have never heard of Islam? Does not it imply that Quran's message should be more clear and less ambigious in order to conclude what the Book means and what it does not, for all of mankind to understand?

d) it is disgusting because in some parts of the world you can be physically beaten or even worse if you do not practice the so called asSalata ritual. Given the fact that the Quran-alone people have various theories regarding the asSalata ritual, some saying it is 5 times per day, other 3, others that you do not need to do so, others say you need but with different phrases during the ritual, others saying the opposite et cetera, it is weird to cite a particular verse which only he believes is a genuine understanding.

There are many other Quranic-based disgusting religious people out there, some are also wannabe tyrants and fascists, like someone named Sam Gerrans. If you need an etymology of a fascist let me know, because you might have a different prespective on this definition.

At least good logic's a nice guy overall and does not spread his fascisting view among other Quran followers.

But franlky I did not come here to discuss good logic's posts, I want to get back to liars and two-faced people, if you do not mind, Sardar.

The_Sardar

c) his thinking implies that if a book is from God, then it surely is meant for all of the mankind. What about people outside of Quranic, Islamic, or Semitic culture overall, say Amish people or Vanuatu people who might have never heard of Islam? Does not it imply that Quran's message should be more clear and less ambigious in order to conclude what the Book means and what it does not, for all of mankind to understand?

But franlky I did not come here to discuss good logic's posts, I want to get back to liars and two-faced people, if you do not mind, Sardar.

Salam/Peace dear brother/sister Makaveli. This verse come into my mind

642
Walaqad arsalna ila omamin minqablika faakhathnahum bialba/sa-i waalddarra-ilaAAallahum yatadarraAAoona
And We have sent others to nations before you. We then took them with adversity and hardship, perhaps they would implore.

Bold Sure go ahead but don't get carried away. Just giving friendly advice.

The_Sardar

Thank you for your reply. It is odd then, since you called Manny_E your possible twin i.e. a counterpart. But I would not call you a liar and two-faced, because I believe you are not. This is why I was curious how would you trust a liar and treat him as your possible counterpart?

Salam/Peace dear brother Makaveli. Firstly i called Manny_E because i wanted to be funny. Secondly are you calling Manny a liar? I hope i got you wrong. Peace be upon you.