AlFathia
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So I should accept Manny and his website as an authority? Where explanation ignores all linguistic rules establish centuries ago by Arab linguists. This is clearly an apologetic response and explanation to defend tradition. This is what really is a circular logic and an appeal to a faulty authority fallacy in arguments.
Why can't he answer my questions in simple English here?
Which Arab linguists? If i recall correctly, most of the linguists of Arabic language is Persian. If i made a mistake then please correct me.
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Which Arab linguists? If i recall correctly, most of the linguists of Arabic language is Persian. If i made a mistake then please correct me.
First of all, does one need to be born in a given lineage to be able to become and expert in the language of that lineage?
Please try to read about History of Arabic linguistic tradition.
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First of all, does one need to be born in a given lineage to be able to become and expert in the language of that lineage?
Please try to read about History of Arabic linguistic tradition.
Any books of PDF that you know? Make sure it's non biased of course.
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First of all, does one need to be born in a given lineage to be able to become and expert in the language of that lineage?
Actually no but that wasn't my point. You said Arab linguists, i thought you were referring to the linguistics experts in Arabic language who were of Arab descent.
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For starter look through following.
https//eprints.soas.ac.uk/5814/1/Shah.pdf
There is also this
chrome-extension//oemmndcbldboiebfnladdacbdfmadadm/https//www.alislam.org/topics/arabic/The%20source%20of%20all%20the%20languages.pdf
chrome-extension//oemmndcbldboiebfnladdacbdfmadadm/https//www.alislam.org/topics/arabic/English%20traced%20to%20Arabic.pdf
Keep in mind this was made by an Ahmadiyyan sectarian but you can ignore his pages on the Ahmadiyya sect and move on to linguistic pages.
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Open the writing called Quran and look yourself. It doesn't require any presentation, if you master Arabic. I don't do any work for you with your attitude.
Please remember when one present an argument about a claim. One should be ready to back it up with evidence to support ones claim. As without evidence it just a claim. With good evidence it might get to the level of knowledge.
Thanks for interacting anyways. Best of luck to you in your future endeavors.
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Please remember when one present an argument about a claim. One should be ready to back it up with evidence to support ones claim. As without evidence it just a claim. With good evidence it might get to the level of knowledge.
Thanks for interacting anyways. Best of luck to you in your future endeavors.
Not being rude but you should check The Quran to for yourself. Because there are fellow muslims saying that The Quran has its own dictionary within. Again not being rude.
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So for me A'qum Al-salawat means to follow straight or firmly follow, or something along the lines. The often occuring Wa atawoo al-zakat adds "and be brought to purification".
I'm not religious at all, I'm not worshiping and I'm not even worshiping myself. I don't expect Quran to be a religious book either but something which helps me grow personally, like a kind of self-development guide. I do believe in a supernatural realm with some difficult-to-fathom core which is usually called God, but God's so much more than a primitive deity who's super-instinctive and who is gonna torture everyone who's too blind to see the truth or who choose to believe in themselves and their own ability.
Dude i agree with you. Allah/God is so much better than that. The religious or traditionalist are framing our Creator into something ridiculous. And i agree with about you Salat. Manny_E are you my twin?! yay D
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Peace Manny_E.
It all depends what is intelligence and how does one get it?Is it productive to create humans that corrupt the earth and create hell on it? Yet humans are on earth (To some it is like hell) and living on it!
Who s to say what is hell that is going to be created and what creation/s will be on it?As for your salat ,make sure you prepare for it(56) and you get your timing right? Or may be there is no preparation for it or timing?
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace Manny_E.
May be some souls need another hell to keep developing? If one is not ready ,we may speculate, but GOD knows exactly what to do with the souls He created.
As for your understanding of salat and its preparation, you are entitled to it.
Although salat is not as important as being a good soul and doing good deeds my take on it differs from yours..
If that is wishful thinking of me from your part, my salat is helping me( Or rather my Lord s help when connecting with Him does the helping!) with my shortcomings of the animal body.
Growing our soul is a pain, but with pain there is gain.
For me, being intelligent and claiming /thinking we are intelligent are two different things. Sometimes our intelligence is our downfall/Satan?
But that is life brother.
GOD bless you.
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Dude i agree with you. Allah/God is so much better than that. The religious or traditionalist are framing our Creator into something ridiculous. And i agree with about you Salat. Manny_E are you my twin?! yay
Hello Sardar. What do you think about liars and the two-faced people? Do you know if Quran speaks of those types of people? More importantly, would YOU associate yourself with liars and two-faced people? I ask because you seem to have a good opinion of the Quran's message.
By the way the above posts by good logic are disgusting from the amount of traditional dogma in it. yuck
But there is something in this thread more repulsive than good logic's posts.
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Hello Sardar. What do you think about liars and the two-faced people? Do you know if Quran speaks of those types of people? More importantly, would YOU associate yourself with liars and two-faced people? I ask because you seem to have a good opinion of the Quran's message.
By the way the above posts by good logic are disgusting from the amount of traditional dogma in it. yuck
But there is something in this thread more repulsive than good logic's posts.
Well i don't like liars, especially those who make lies against our Creator which will cause confusion and harm. I wan't to be guided by the Divine Revelation/The Quran. Bold Why are you calling Good Logic disgusting? I find a bit odd and honestly a bit unfair.
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Well i don't like liars, especially those who make lies against our Creator which will cause confusion and harm. I wan't to be guided by the Divine Revelation/The Quran. Bold Why are you calling Good Logic disgusting? I find a bit odd and honestly a bit unfair.
Thank you for your reply. It is odd then, since you called Manny_E your possible twin i.e. a counterpart. But I would not call you a liar and two-faced, because I believe you are not. This is why I was curious how would you trust a liar and treat him as your possible counterpart?
I called good logic's posts disgusting because I genuinely believe and have strong foundation to believe so that Quran's message excludes the rituals and other religious prerequisites that he believes are compulsive in his life. To be more precise, his posts are disgusting because
a) this is an example of dogmatic thinking of his and lack of critical mind, which I personally possess to a very high extent. I believe it is natural to feel disgusted at something which is a complete opposite of you, in a negative sense of course, in case that opposite spreads negativity. But then again, it is my subjective opinion of his belief;
b) him citing various verses to back his argument implies that the particular translation of his Qur'an, i.e. a traditional one I suppose, contains all the answers he needs, which is also not true and hypocritical. This is because particular 'salat' problem in the envrionment outside of the so called 'Sunna of the Prophet' contaisn hundreds of theories. How can good logic be sure that his particular understanding is a correct one?
c) his thinking implies that if a book is from God, then it surely is meant for all of the mankind. What about people outside of Quranic, Islamic, or Semitic culture overall, say Amish people or Vanuatu people who might have never heard of Islam? Does not it imply that Quran's message should be more clear and less ambigious in order to conclude what the Book means and what it does not, for all of mankind to understand?
d) it is disgusting because in some parts of the world you can be physically beaten or even worse if you do not practice the so called asSalata ritual. Given the fact that the Quran-alone people have various theories regarding the asSalata ritual, some saying it is 5 times per day, other 3, others that you do not need to do so, others say you need but with different phrases during the ritual, others saying the opposite et cetera, it is weird to cite a particular verse which only he believes is a genuine understanding.
There are many other Quranic-based disgusting religious people out there, some are also wannabe tyrants and fascists, like someone named Sam Gerrans. If you need an etymology of a fascist let me know, because you might have a different prespective on this definition.
At least good logic's a nice guy overall and does not spread his fascisting view among other Quran followers.
But franlky I did not come here to discuss good logic's posts, I want to get back to liars and two-faced people, if you do not mind, Sardar.
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c) his thinking implies that if a book is from God, then it surely is meant for all of the mankind. What about people outside of Quranic, Islamic, or Semitic culture overall, say Amish people or Vanuatu people who might have never heard of Islam? Does not it imply that Quran's message should be more clear and less ambigious in order to conclude what the Book means and what it does not, for all of mankind to understand?
But franlky I did not come here to discuss good logic's posts, I want to get back to liars and two-faced people, if you do not mind, Sardar.
Salam/Peace dear brother/sister Makaveli. This verse come into my mind
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Walaqad arsalna ila omamin minqablika faakhathnahum bialba/sa-i waalddarra-ilaAAallahum yatadarraAAoona
And We have sent others to nations before you. We then took them with adversity and hardship, perhaps they would implore.Bold Sure go ahead but don't get carried away. Just giving friendly advice.
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Thank you for your reply. It is odd then, since you called Manny_E your possible twin i.e. a counterpart. But I would not call you a liar and two-faced, because I believe you are not. This is why I was curious how would you trust a liar and treat him as your possible counterpart?
Salam/Peace dear brother Makaveli. Firstly i called Manny_E because i wanted to be funny. Secondly are you calling Manny a liar? I hope i got you wrong. Peace be upon you.
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Salam/Peace dear brother/sister Makaveli. This verse come into my mind
642
Walaqad arsalna ila omamin minqablika faakhathnahum bialba/sa-i waalddarra-ilaAAallahum yatadarraAAoona
And We have sent others to nations before you. We then took them with adversity and hardship, perhaps they would implore.Bold Sure go ahead but don't get carried away. Just giving friendly advice.
Thank you. This verse you cited probably contains a hidden wisdom in it I alas fail to understand it at the moment nor see its connection to the liars issue. But nonetheless, how would you consider a two-faced person who would suddenly appear to lie to you all the way long during your association or discussion with him? Say he appears to be a different person with a hidden agenda, which he did not want others to know and is secretly pursuing his agenda without others knowing? Besides, what would your stance be on such a person given the fact that you accidentally found out that his only purpose of talking to you and appearing friendly is to make you accept his particular vision of the Quran without backing up linguistically or rather contradicting with an available etymological/linguistic definitions, of some words and phrases, just to make his vision or ideology work, and in case you would point his obvious dogmatic fraud out call you 'an underdeveloped'?
Would such a person be your counterpart? I want to know so that I know if I can trust you.
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Thank you. This verse you cited probably contains a hidden wisdom in it I alas fail to understand it at the moment nor see its connection to the liars issue. But nonetheless, how would you consider a two-faced person who would suddenly appear to lie to you all the way long during your association or discussion with him? Say he appears to be a different person with a hidden agenda, which he did not want others to know and is secretly pursuing his agenda without others knowing? Besides, what would your stance be on such a person given the fact that you accidentally found out that his only purpose of talking to you and appearing friendly is to make you accept his particular vision of the Quran without backing up linguistically or rather contradicting with an available etymological/linguistic definitions, of some words and phrases, just to make his vision work, and in case you would point this out call you 'an underdeveloped'?
Would such a person be your counterpart? I want to know so that I know if I can trust you.
Salam/Peace dear brother Makaveli. Bold It was actually a response to the reason C. And as for your question i already mentioned that i was just being funny meaning i wasn't exactly serious about him being my possible counterpart. (Should have mentioned in the first place though) Now for my answer I would be shocked if that was the case and same can happen if it was you (not accusing you by the way) and i would do what i can to expose him. (to be quite honest, i would be scared to do it alone XD) I hope this answer your question brother Makaveli. Peace be upon you and Allah/God (SWTAY) bless you & your family.
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Salam/Peace dear brother Makaveli. Bold It was actually a response to the reason C. And as for your question i already mentioned that i was just being funny meaning i wasn't exactly serious about him being my possible counterpart. (Should have mentioned in the first place though) Now as for your question, i would be shocked if that was the case and same can happen if it was you (not accusing you by the way) and i would do what i can to expose him. (to be quite honest, i would be scared to do it alone XD) I hope this answer your question brother Makaveli. Peace be upon you and Allah/God (SWTAY) bless you & your family.
Oh I see. I did not understand your intention of the verse provided, now I see and I agree, many nations went great lengths in hardships although because of a reason not openly stated in the Scriptures. Regardless, it appears that different Messengers shared different messages, don't you see? Have you ever heard about a person historically called 'Jesus of Nazareth', also known as Isa bin Miryem or the Messiah? He is characterized in the Quran as someone who has Holy Spirit in him (Ruh al-Quds). Unlike him, the 'messenger' in the Quran appears to have multiple wives and leads a very 'fast' lifestyle, and also teaches his fellow soldiers/companions who follow him to be harsh with disbelievers and merciful among themselves, as it appears traditionally.
I like your position on liars and two faced people, and I also like that you openly state that the same reaction will not be limited to Manny_E but also myself happen you find that I share the same hidden and deceitful agenda that he shares. It shows that you strive to be a good Muslim (also Hebrew word Meshulam, occurs in the Bible sometimes, by the way, some root Miim-Siim-Lam).
But to be pefectly appropriate on the matter, I need to ask you beforehand, if you are interested in knowing further, or you would like to keep your positive superstition regarding Manny_E untouched?
