AlFathia
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As for Manny_E. What if you know know him better than you believe? If you want me to elaborate on it just say you, I can prove it.
I would like to elaborate on your view on Manny_E but if Manny arrives i would also hear his response, you could be wrong about Manny.
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Salam/Peace dear brother Makaveli. Before i answer i just wan't to let you know, i do not defend the traditional interpretation. Bold 1 If you read about the whole context of Surah 9 you may get a reason why Muhammad is severe against the rejecters (Note this was a while ago.)
With all due respect, violence is the same in our observable reality. When someone is bombing and there are casulties among the civilians, one side will tell that they fight the terrorism, and another will tell that they are fighting the opressors. The outcome will be the same in any case civilians die by being labeled as particular kind of people regardless if they characterize the same with such people.
How do you what kind of rejectors were the people mentioned in Surah 9, and what exactly is there to reject? Why is their rejection any different to the God Al-Mighty, the creator and the lord of the worlds?
I would like to elaborate on your view on Manny_E but if Manny arrives i would also hear his response, you could be wrong about Manny.
How likely is the opportunity that I am wrong regarding Manny_E? I think it is unlikely, almost non-existent. Do you by chance know someone who shares a radical view of the Qur'an, a very different than that of the traditional understanding?
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How do you what kind of rejectors were the people mentioned in Surah 9, and what exactly is there to reject? Why is their rejection any different to the God Al-Mighty, the creator and the lord of the worlds?
How likely is the opportunity that I am wrong regarding Manny_E? I think it is unlikely, almost non-existent. Do you by chance know someone who shares a radical view of the Qur'an, a very different than that of the traditional understanding?
Bold 1 When i checked on the rejecters, they were clinging on their traditions and they hostile towards those who brought the divine message. If you looked at 913 you see that they attacked first. Just letting you know on the rejecters clinging their traditions, i saw a few of verses speaking about it but sadly don't remember which verses. Bold 2 No i do not. Red If you are so sure then please show us. Also i would to hear Manny's response to your claim because i wan't to hear both sides.
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With all due respect, violence is the same in our observable reality. When someone is bombing and there are casulties among the civilians, one side will tell that they fight the terrorism, and another will tell that they are fighting the opressors. The outcome will be the same in any case civilians die by being labeled as particular kind of people regardless if they characterize the same with such people.
I agree, the scumbag elite who sends bombs on villages and they can get away with because they are seen as "good, hard working people" Like the so called "War on Terror" more like War on developing countries and creating & funding more terrorists.
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Bold 1 When i checked on the rejecters, they were clinging on their traditions and they hostile towards those who brought the divine message. If you looked at 913 you see that they attacked first. Just letting you know on the rejecters clinging their traditions, i saw a few of verses speaking about it but sadly don't remember which verses. Bold 2 No i do not. Red If you are so sure then show us. Also i would to hear Manny's response to your claim because i wan't to hear both sides.
Sorry I do not see that they attacked first in 913, I only see that they wanted to peacefully expel the the al-Rasuul in this verse. I would naturally want to expel someone who spreads violence in the lands and wants to convert people percefully living in the land by using force.
Despite this how do you connect 913 with the violence imposed against the disbelievers in 4829? Why could not the Al-Mighty place these verses close enough together so that they would be contextually logical?
Finally, why don't we see such verses about Isa ibn Miryem (belonging to the foundation of Miryem or shortly, son of Miryem) oppressing people? What does the Quran wants to tell by this distinction?
Regarding the Manny_E, I could expose him publically long ago, but that is also against my personal ethics. I need a right circumstance to do so. But I did not ask you, dear Sardar, about if you happen to know someone whose vision of the Quran is radically different, in vain, and about who also spreads his message similar to the prophetic career. Do you know such person? You surely know such person, you might have refered to a public website of his some time ago. Do you not remember or are lying, Sardar? I am not accusing you, just want to know if I can trust you.
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Despite this how do you connect 913 with the violence imposed against the disbelievers in 4829? Why could not the Al-Mighty place these verses close enough together so that they would be contextually logical?
Salam/Peace dear brother Makaveli. I have checked the verse of 4829 and the key word in the verse is ashidd?'u (ء and it's root word is Shiin-Dal-Dal ( د to bind tightly, strap, strengthen firmly, run, establish, make firm, hard, strong, be advanced (day), be intense. ushdud - harden, strengthen. shadiid (pl. shidaad & ashidda'u) - great, firm, strict, vehement, strong, violent, severe, mighty, terrible, stern, grievous, miserly, niggardly. (adj. of the forms fa'iil and fiaal are used indifferently for both m. and f.) ashuddun age of full strength, maturity. ishtadda (vb. - to act with violence, become hard.
Yes ashidda'u can mean severe or violent but it also means firm and honestly if i were to translate it, it would the meaning firm, why? Because in verses like 2190 it orders to fight in the cause of Allah/God against those who fight us but also not to aggress for he does not love aggression. (Keep reading till 2193.) Hopefully this answered this question.
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Finally, why don't we see such verses about Isa ibn Miryem (belonging to the foundation of Miryem or shortly, son of Miryem) oppressing people? What does the Quran wants to tell by this distinction?
Honestly i don't know. Because i have not studied heavily on Isa Ibn Maryam journey.
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Regarding the Manny_E, I could expose him publically long ago, but that is also against my personal ethics. I need a right circumstance to do so. But I did not ask you, dear Sardar, about if you happen to know someone whose vision of the Quran is radically different, in vain, and about who also spreads his message similar to the prophetic career. Do you know such person? You surely know such person, you might have refered to a public website of his some time ago. Do you not remember or are lying, Sardar? I am not accusing you, just want to know if I can trust you.
If i have known this person you are referring then i must have forgotten that person you are speaking about. You said i published a website of this person? Could you remind or better, show that website?
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Salam/Peace dear brother Makaveli. I have checked the verse of 4829 and the key word in the verse is ashidd?'u (ء and it's root word is Shiin-Dal-Dal ( د to bind tightly, strap, strengthen firmly, run, establish, make firm, hard, strong, be advanced (day), be intense. ushdud - harden, strengthen. shadiid (pl. shidaad & ashidda'u) - great, firm, strict, vehement, strong, violent, severe, mighty, terrible, stern, grievous, miserly, niggardly. (adj. of the forms fa'iil and fiaal are used indifferently for both m. and f.) ashuddun age of full strength, maturity. ishtadda (vb. - to act with violence, become hard.
Yes ashidda'u can mean severe or violent but it also means firm and honestly if i were to translate it, it would the meaning firm, why? Because in verses like 2190 it orders to fight in the cause of Allah/God against those who fight us but also not to aggress for he does not love aggression. (Keep reading till 2193.) Hopefully this answered this question.
Thank you for your effort, but I still fail to see how are those seemingly randomized verses interrelated and why the book jumps from one context unto another in a randmized even chaotic way. Being firm is strangely enough synonymous with 'to confirm', do you agree? It means to have a stable foundation of something. But can you say you are firm against the adversaries? A better word choice in this case would be, in my opinion, 'enforce' i.e. to keep under certain conditions forcibly, which is also included in the Project Root List, as you cited strengthen firmly, establish.
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If i have known this person you are referring then i must have forgotten that person you are speaking about. You said i published a website of this person? Could you remind or better, show that website?
I surely can remind you of your post, it is under Reply #170.
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Thank you for your effort, but I still fail to see how are those seemingly randomized verses interrelated and why the book jumps from one context unto another in a randmized even chaotic way. Being firm is strangely enough synonymous with 'to confirm', do you agree? It means to have a stable foundation of something. But can you say you are firm against the adversaries? A better word choice in this case would be, in my opinion, 'enforce' i.e. to keep under certain conditions forcibly, which is also included in the Project Root List, as you cited strengthen firmly, establish.
Salam/Peace dear brother Makaveli. Maybe this could answer your question There is a video about 37 by Quran Centric and he says that mutashabihatun (ت means similtude, see the video to see my point https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pGVnehfAaI
If it doesn't answer your question then i am sorry for failing to answer your question. I tried what i can.
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I surely can remind you of your post, it is under Reply #170.
Man of Faith? That is surprising. I didn't expect him. In my mind i thought you were referring a doctor named Kashif Khan.
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Salam/Peace dear brother Makaveli. Maybe this could answer your question There is a video about 37 by Quran Centric and he says that mutashabihatun (ت means similtude, see the video to see my point https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pGVnehfAaI
If it doesn't answer your question then i am sorry for failing to answer your question. I tried what i can.
I am sorry but 37 has nothing to do with the issue of violence that we discussed early. Besides, the allegory or methaphor needs to contain an observable reality that you can employ to critically analyze the subjec, do you agree? Do you agree that allegory without an observable reality is useless, i.e. something symbolic you can transfer in your mind to open a bigger picture, it needs to contain something that you can apply, symbolically, in order to understand the subject or the morale behind the subject? Do you see an obvious allegory in the verses about Muhammad and his companions enforcing the 'disbelievers'?
Man of Faith? That is surprising. I didn't expect him. In my mind i thought you were referring a doctor named Kashif Khan.
I have never heard about Kashif Khan, the doctor. But if I caught him being openly two faced and spreading his intrigues I would probably want to hint others as well, so that to help people avoid possible harm from such hideous tactics.
But don't you see the obvious correlation between the posts by the so called Manny_E and Man of Faith? What do you think about Man of Faith by the way? Is he consistent in his studies?
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I am sorry but 37 has nothing to do with the issue of violence that we discussed early. Besides, the allegory or methaphor needs to contain an observable reality that you can employ to critically analyze the subjec, do you agree? Do you agree that allegory without an observable reality, i.e. something symbolic you can transfer in your mind to open a bigger picture, needs to contain something that you can use, symbolically, in order to understand it? Do you see an obvious allegory in the verses about Muhammad and his companions enforcing the 'disbelievers'?
Bold 1 I noticed i haven't seen a hint of violence in 4829. (Unless i missed it) Bold 2 Problem, i never mentioned about metaphor or allegory. I was actually referring to similitude. You have watched the video? But if i couldn't answer your question then i tried.
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But don't you see the obvious correlation between the posts by the so called Manny_E and Man of Faith? What do you think about Man of Faith by the way? Is he consistent in his studies?
I think i noticed some sort of similarity between Manny & Man of Faith. As for Man of Faith, he is cool nice guy and as for his studies , i wasn't sadly very observant of his research unfortunate but i did seen his posts and comments. Was a bit strange because his understanding is very different. Although it's been awhile since i talked to him. A year i think.
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Bold 1 I noticed i haven't seen a hint of violence in 4829. (Unless i missed it) Bold 2 Problem, i never mentioned about metaphor or allegory. I was actually referring to similitude. You have watched the video? But if i couldn't answer your question then i tried.
What do you can a policy which is enforced or harsh (ُ upon you i.e. your will or freedom is not taken into account? Do you call it violence? If not, what is the right way to understand it? The pictures for , well, speak for themselves https//www.google.ee/search?q=%D8%A3%D9%8E%D8%B4%D9%90%D8%AF%D9%91%D9%8E%D8%A7%D9%93%D8%A1%D9%8F&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi32PatvbXaAhWPL1AKHYUoAp4Q_AUICigB&biw=1920&bih=949 (warning some graphic content)
Sometimes it is positive to look for cultural cues, or signs, and not just linguistics. I pay a lot of attention to etymology, but also do not exclude cultural influence and google pictures is a good way to start.
I think i noticed some sort of similarity between Manny & Man of Faith.
But what if you interchange Manny and E, don't you see E_mann[uel)? What if I told you, you can actually look for a bigger picture yourself and solve the puzzle, without having me hold your hand on the way to the truth?
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What do you can a policy which is enforced or harsh (ُ upon you i.e. your will or freedom is not taken into account? Do you call it violence? If not, what is the right way to understand it? The pictures for , well, speak for themselves https//www.google.ee/search?q=%D8%A3%D9%8E%D8%B4%D9%90%D8%AF%D9%91%D9%8E%D8%A7%D9%93%D8%A1%D9%8F&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi32PatvbXaAhWPL1AKHYUoAp4Q_AUICigB&biw=1920&bih=949 (warning some graphic content)
Sometimes it is positive to look for cultural cues, or signs, and not just linguistics. I pay a lot of attention to etymology, but also do not exclude cultural influence and google pictures is a good way to start.
I am not sure how cultural are involved but i noticed there is something off about enforce or harsh, they are not part of the meanings. Now i checked the root word and i found strict, stern or strong. Now i don't want to play gymnastics and i know you are criticizing the traditional translation of 4829.
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But what if you interchange Manny and E, don't you see E_mann[uel)? What if I told you, you can actually look for a bigger picture yourself and solve the puzzle, without having me hold your hand on the way to the truth?
I am not sure about that. When i saw Man of Faith criticize, he does it in very calm way. Now Manny_E he does somewhat less calmer on his criticism. (Sorry Manny_E if you see this but i had to be honest.)
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Right now it's getting late because it's night so no replies for a while unless you wan't to end the discussion which i am fine either way.
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I am not sure how cultural are involved but i noticed there is something off about enforce or harsh, they are not part of the meanings. Now i checked the root word and i found strict, stern or strong. Now i don't want to play gymnastics and i know you are criticizing the traditional translation of 4829.
But did you yourself show the meanings behind Shiin-Dal-Dal before? Among which you yourself outlined the strong, violent, severe, mighty, terrible etc.? I am just trying to show you comparatively some of the issues of the Qur'an, which are not fatal, by the way, and can be hopefully solved. Unless some people here I do not have second thoughts.
I am not sure about that. When i saw Man of Faith criticize, he does it in very calm way. Now Manny_E he does somewhat less calmer on his criticism. (Sorry Manny_E if you see this but i had to be honest.)
Thank you for being honest. But if you saw a person lie to you and come out as someone entirely different, what would be your reaction?
