AlFathia

[Makaveli]

You really do love Sam Gerrans don't you. (Sarcasm for does who don't know. Not being mean)

I am trying to make people think for themselves, and that includes abandoning the mental torturers who are limited in common sense and have a very limited worldview yet believe they have the right to spread the message and thus influence the thinking of other uncritical people.

He is not the "quranite", he is a right wing fascistic fanatic. His overall dogma is based on right wing conservatism, thus the Quran confirms for him his 16th century way of thinking.

Abandon Sam Gerrans, burn his book, unsubscribe from him, call him out everytime you see a lie and contradiction (such as when he asked people to recommend him on some TV/Youtube show, but often spoke against the so called 'talking shop' before, I believe he removed the video so I cannot demonstrate it but those who frequent his Youtube channel know it), make him think over what he does and if it is beneficial for him and the rest of quran-aloners. THINK.

[Jafar]

A dogma by its definition does not include penalty, it is a fixed, especially belief or set of beliefs that people are expected to accept without any doubts, regardless if you are punished or not. It is basically the medium which holds the structure of a belief.

By definition No penalty is required for idea to become "Dogma".
By practicality
Dogma without punishment for those who attempted to questioned or falsify the dogma is like a tiger without teeth, a law without enforcement, quite useless.
It's due to Dogma do NOT relies on evidence, Dogma relies on authority for it's enforcement.
The Dogma issuer requires to be FEARED in order for the dogma to be accepted.

That's is also why often the issuer claimed his / her / their authority to came from Heaven, God, Deities.

Yes, as I said a dogma is fundamental, so changing dogma inevitably brings fundamental changes to the structure. Since the Catholic Church gave in to science it became politically detached from the state as it once were a unified body of power, i.e. a gradual change took place, the Church eventually had to adjust to the new standards and dogmas of the Enlightenment.

It's not as simple black and white as that..
None of it in this world..

Catholic Church detachment from Political Power was FORCED.
By Whom? Not by "science", given science is a methodology and not a political party or entities.
But by the political enemies of Catholic Church, in England it was the Monarch, in Germany it was the competing Church, in Italy it was by the Kingdom of Italy.

Losing the political power the Catholic church then again FORCED to adapt to a new reality, it needs to alter many of it's "toothless dogmas" in order to stay relevant, in order to still be respected by it's member. Due to the Church no longer has the political power to enforce punishment let alone perform another round of "Inquisition" to enforce the dogmas.

Having said that, the catholic church does has it's own role on promoting the scientific methodology. Many of it's "low ranked" priest implement scientific methodology and revealed many key findings to humanity. Such as but not limited to

• Gregor Mendel Genetics which later formed as evidence for evolution which denied by the church dogmas.
• Louis Pasteur microbiology and vaccine (none of it acknowledged by the church)
• Nicolaus Copernicus Earth rotated around the sun, which later put him at odd with the Church as it's against the church dogmas.

None in this world is as simple as black and white.. most of it are 'gray'..
The Abandonment of Dogmas, Church and Religion (Any religion) was not due to or by 'science'.

I am trying to make people think for themselves, and that includes abandoning the mental torturers who are limited in common sense and have a very limited worldview yet believe they have the right to spread the message and thus influence the thinking of other uncritical people.

"Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery, none but ourselves can free our own minds"
-- Bob Marley, Redemption Songs

Abandon Sam Gerrans, burn his book, unsubscribe from him, call him out everytime you see a lie and contradiction (such as when he asked people to recommend him on some TV/Youtube show, but often spoke against the so called 'talking shop' before, I believe he removed the video so I cannot demonstrate it but those who frequent his Youtube channel know it), make him think over what he does and if it is beneficial for him and the rest of quran-aloners. THINK.

You are proposing to start an "Inquisition" against Sam Gerranism? rotfl rotfl

[Makaveli]

By practicality

This is strange rationale. We are talking about the textual-religious dogma, which is WRITTEN and relies on defining concepts. Thus any religious dogma is protected by its followers, both peaceful and thus that are ready to kill for it, not to mention traditional Quran itself threatens the disbelievers with eternal fire.

The Dogma issuer requires to be FEARED in order for the dogma to be accepted.

Not necessarily, the acceptance of dogma relies solely on your acceptance i.e. belief in its postulates. This may be achieved through fear or unquestionable belief or a sense of unproved confidence. If someone fears God, does he/she trusts God or fears him? What prevails in this case, a fear or one's state of assurance in the postulates surrounding concrete deity?

Having said that, the catholic church does has it's own role on promoting the scientific methodology. Many of it's "low ranked" priest implement scientific methodology and revealed many key findings to humanity. Such as but not limited to

• Gregor Mendel Genetics which later formed as evidence for evolution which denied by the church dogmas.
• Louis Pasteur microbiology and vaccine (none of it acknowledged by the church)
• Nicolaus Copernicus Earth rotated around the sun, which later put him at odd with the Church as it's against the church dogmas.

The above listed individuals had access to information (libraries, universities) during their time, and these libraries were controlled by the Church, obviously. First European universities were basically built to teach people read Latin for religious purposes. People that went as far as to make scientific discoveries, which would contradict decrees made by the Church authority would sooner or later find themselves in trouble, but as long as their findings did not contradict the latter they would be fine.

So obviously many notable individuals of European Enlightenment were initially natives from the learning structures associated with the Church.

But just because the 'knowledge' was concentrated within the Church hierarchy does not mean the Church itself was a promoter of science. Saying so would be the same as to say any one who goes to community college IS a statesman, because a community college is controlled by the state.

The Abandonment of Dogmas, Church and Religion (Any religion) was not due to or by 'science'.

I never said the abandonment of dogmas ever happened, they were changed/altered due to the demand by zeitgeist.

You are proposing to start an "Inquisition" against Sam Gerranism?

A call for the community, so to speak, based on their observable facts of delusion spread by some individuals. Inquisition was forced by the hierarchy, not community-based.